1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What if the Man of Sin is Here?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Mindonfire, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Mindonfire

    Mindonfire Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    90
    Ratings:
    +6
    What if the Man of Sin is here?



    The Bible gives us many clues and hints to the character of the Final Great Gentile Leader, or the Anti-Christ as he is called. First of all we must see and understand that the Bible is a book of examples and patterns. Solomon stated it best in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 the thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.
    Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
    Everything that we are witnessing in the world today is as it was thousands of years ago. The only thing that has changed is the technology. Man is still defying God, lying, cheating, stealing etc.


    We must understand that the Final Great Gentile Leader or Anti-Christ as he is called is a model of a previous archetype. To simplify it, just understand that he is just a newer version of an old type with a couple of upgrades

    1. model: Function: noun 5 : an example for imitation or emulation 7 : ARCHETYPE 13 : VERSION

    2. archetype: Function: noun 1 : the original pattern or model of which all things of the same type are representations or copies : PROTOTYPE; also : a perfect example

    3. type: Function: noun Usage: often attributive 4 a : qualities common to a number of individuals that distinguish them as an identifiable class: as (1) : the morphological, physiological, or ecological characters by which relationship between organisms may be recognized (2) : the form common to all instances of a linguistic element b : a typical and often superior specimen c : a member of an indicated class or variety of people <the guests were mostly urban types -- Lucy Cook> d : a particular kind, class, or group <oranges of the seedless type> <leaders of the new type... did England yeoman's service -- G. M. Trevelyan> e : something distinguishable as a variety : SORT <what type of food do you like?>



    The first Great Gentile Leader or Anti-Christ mentioned in the Bible was Nimrod, whose name meant “Let us Revolt.” Genesis 10:8-9 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

    One of his main accomplishments was the building of the Tower of Babel.

    Take note of Nimrods’ most poignant traits: he was first mighty and also a hunter. In fact he became such a mighty hunter that it became a matter of concern to God himself. This is why the chapter states “he was a mighty hunter before the Lord.” I can guarantee you that he wasn’t hunting animals. A man that is a great hunter of animals would not make God take special note of him. Most theologians have come to believe that since the context of the chapter deals with men and not animals, his extraordinary skill in hunting dealt with men. Many have also come to the conclusion that his exploits or deeds were of a moral or spiritual nature. So you will have to remember that he was a hunter of men and not animals. This is very significant because when the Spirit reveals who the Man of Sin or Anti-Christ is you will see what type of men Nimrod was hunting. (The Final Great Gentile Leader or Anti-Christ is also hunting these same men.)

    The next Great Gentile Leader or Anti-Christ that is mentioned in the Bible is King Nebuchadnezzar. I believe that the majority of believers have heard about him. King Nebuchadnezzar. was the ruler of the most powerful nation in the civilized world during Prophet Daniels, time. His dominion, influence, and authority were unmatched. He had become so great that once again it caught God’s attention. This is not to say that God does not see what everybody does; but King Nebuchadnezzar became so great that it made a strong impression on Him.

    Now one of the clues to the character of King Nebuchadnezzar and the Final Great Gentile leader or Anti-Christ is not easily discerned in the book of Daniel. You will have to dive deep into the Spirit in order to discern it. First look at Daniels answer in Daniel 2:20-21 after God had revealed the answer to Nebuchadnezzar’s’ dream. Daniel 2:20-21 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
    And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding
    : Notice that Daniel first blessed the name of God forever and ever. Secondly he acknowledged that true wisdom and might are in Gods possession. Thirdly he states “And he changeth the times and the seasons; he removeth kings, and setteth up kings. I want you to pay special attention to the last statement; (“he removeth kings, and setteth up kings”). Daniel was acknowledging that all power in heaven and in earth is in Gods hands. God is so powerful that he even controls the placement of kings and rulers in our world.


    Now many of you are probably saying “Oh that can’t be true. What about all those evil despots like King Herod, Hitler, Idi Amin etc? That was not God who places them.” Well hold that thought. You see God knew that some of us would ask that question. So turn to Daniel 4:17 for the answer. Daniel 4:17 This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

    As you can see even the most vicious of ruler is put in place by God for his purpose. This is why a man like Hitler can become chancellor of Germany despite being ill-equipped mentally, emotionally, and socially. So what this tells us is that no matter who is in power God is still in charge.

    Let us step back for one moment. You have to remember and understand that Daniel 4:17 deals with part of a dream that was sent to King Nebuchadnezzar from God. So now the question is “Why would God send King Nebuchadnezzar a dream with such a message. You see King Nebuchadnezzar had come to this wild notion, that since Babylon was such a great nation with unmatched power, technology, authority, and influence, he now could dictate what type of governments and leaders the nations of the world should have. So God decided to send him a message that he had overstepped his bounds and had come into direct opposition with the Most High God. This is when King Nebuchadnezzar became a type of Anti-Christ or you can say Anti- God

    1. anti: Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural antis Etymology: anti: one that is opposed



    Remember this very important fact. No man has the authority to change or remove the leader of any nation unless he is the Messias or The Most High God.



    So now here are the first two clues to the character of the Final Great Gentile Leader or Ant-Christ. These should start you on your way to his identification.

    1. He is going to be a mighty hunter, but not of animals. He will be a mighty hunter of specific men.

    2. He will try to change the Governments and Leaders of the nations to fit his image.





     
  2. CMIYC

    CMIYC Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +12
    Mindonfire vbmenu_register("postmenu_194275", true);

    ***To some extent Jesus fits all the requirements for that anti Christ... You probably don’t need to get educated in this area but overwhelming evidence present it self...


    ***First of all I looked at the prophesy. The criteria of requirements for a messiah.



    Matthew 1:23 23"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,"[a] which is translated, "God with us."



    ***No where in the bible has this name every appeared again.



    Romans 1:3 and Acts 2:30). 3concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,



    ***We all know this argument, Jesus was fathered by God therefore cannot be a descendent of David. And he cannot be a descendent of David through Mary, because bloodlines where only recognized through men.



    Isaiah 7:16 16For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.



    *** so another prophesy not fulfilled. No records show that the two Jewish countries were destroyed before Jesus reached maturity.





    Then the confusion:



    (Matthew 26:64 NAB) "But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'" And also in Matthew 23:36 - 24:34



    (Matthew 23:36 NAB) Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



    (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.



    *** this is only the start of it, there are so much more to uncover and so much more deception. I wish I had more time on my hand to go though it all.

    cheers
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    Mindonfire,


    What point are you trying to make? do you want a discussion on this?:)
     
  4. CMIYC

    CMIYC Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +12
    I would love one
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    I shall answer your points in parts, if I may.........

    Matthew 1:23 23"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,"[a] which is translated, "God with us."

    ***No where in the bible has this name every appeared again.



    I dispute that;
    "Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel."
    "Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

    These two verses can be seen in this light:-

    Since Ahaz refused the proffered sign, God would in due time give the whole "house of David" (Isaiah 7:13) a sign, a miracle unique in all of history.
    This should read "the virgin," indicating a very specific virgin, long awaited by the entire human race. This could be nothing less than the primeval promise of the coming "Seed of the Woman" (Genesis 3:15), who would someday defeat Satan and redeem not only the House of David but all mankind.
    Many critics have argued that the Hebrew word means simply "young, unmarried woman," rather than "virgin," and some translations have translated it as such. This is nothing but a device to avoid the miracle of Christ's virgin birth. The word is used six or more times in the Old Testament and in all instances the context favors (or at least does not preclude) its rendering as "virgin." Conception by a "young unmarried woman" would hardly be a sign of anything except sin, for such events occur frequently. A virgin conception would require a mighty act of creation by God Himself. The quotation of this verse in the New Testament (Matthew 1:23) should remove any lingering doubt, for the Greek word parthenos used there can only mean "virgin" (Jeremiah 31:22.)
    "Immanuel" means "God with us"--that is, God incarnate in human flesh, the unique miracle implied by the Edenic promise of the conquering "Seed of the Woman" in Genesis 3:15. Men produce genetic seed naturally, but a woman could only generate a "seed" supernaturally. A true virgin conception has only occurred once in human history, leading to the birth of Christ. Christ as the God-man is the only one who could ever destroy the "old serpent, the devil" (Micah 5:2; John 1:1
    4).:)
    .
     
  6. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    579
    Ratings:
    +40
    One of the characteristics that Daniel mentions about the Antichrist is that he will not regard the God of his fathers, this would eliminate Jesus because He followed the Law of Moses without fault.
    Daniel 11:36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

    But this does seem to point to the Antichrist being a Jew, or pretending to be a Jew.

    Being that the Antichrist is Satan's counterfeit of Jesus, it would stand to reason that he would try and prove this "man of sin" to be of the lineage of David to justify him as the true messiah. This is why so many people (Jew and Gentile) will be deceived by the Antichrist, he will have a most believable message and do great signs and wonders.

    Do I believe that this man is with us today, very possibly...

    Sabio
     
  7. CMIYC

    CMIYC Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +12
    Michel

    Wow, I do appreciate your reply, first time ever has anybody made sense. Iv been around for awhile know looking for a satisfactory answer to things I could not understand. Thank you. Hopefully you might be able to enlighten me further.


    There has been so much focus virgin and virgin birth prior to Christ’s coming.. Starting around 400 years B. C married couples would not consummate their marriage in hope that they would be the chosen ones to deliver king. There is always more, then there is

    the issue of the MORNING STAR.



    Proverb 5:3: For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:

    But her end is BITTER as 'WORMWOOD'(bitter herb that's toxic), sharp as a two edged sword.

    Her feet go down to DEATH; her steps take hold on HELL.

    Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.

    Deut:29:18: Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth GALL and WORMWOOD(bitterness/or toxic)





    Who is the Fallen Star that brings death, (the reflection or son of Fallen angel Belial), the son of "Morning" (Sun God Baal/Satan), the bright "Morning Star" Lucifer.

    Rev 22:16

    · I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches. I am the root and the spawn of David, and I am the bright Morning Star(LUCIFER).





    "So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (LUCIFER)rises in your hearts." - 2 Peter 1:19





    "... from my Father. To the one who conquers(DESTROYS) I will also give the morning star(LUCIFER)." - Revelation 2:28





    What did he Fulfill as describing Satan (the advesary)?

    Isaiah 14:13-15

    You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven, above the stars of God, and will set my throne on High.. I will ascend above the heights of the Clouds, I will be as the Most High."

    Yet you will be brought down to the grave, to the sides of the pit. Similar we see Jesus was indeed brought down to the pit (acts 2:27 & 1 Peter 3:19 & the Apostle's creed) for
     
  8. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,261
    Ratings:
    +559
    Isaiah 14 is about a babylonion king...not Lucifer. My understanding is that this "morning star" in Isaiah was a mistranslation from the Hebrew. The original verse describing the babylonian king translates as "day star, son of the dawn." When this was translated into Latin, the brightest star of the morning was Venus and in Roman astronomy, Venus was called Lucifer.

    Somewhere along the way, people forgot that this description was for the king and started using it as a misnomer for Satan. The confusion escalates when Christ refers to Himself as the morning star.
     
  9. Mindonfire

    Mindonfire Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    90
    Ratings:
    +6
    This is true and this is also speaking also of the future Babylonian king or Anti-christ who will deceive many by pretending to be the true Morning Star

    Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    Obadiah 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation [is] high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
     
Loading...