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What if God The Father Came to Earth Instead?

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
What if God the Father, not God the Son, came to earth instead?

Also - Did the Holy Spirit exist before Jesus? or did they both always exist?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What if God the Father, not God the Son, came to earth instead?
Wasn't that the case really, considering the Logos is the eternal expression of the eternal God. Jesus said, "He that has seen me has seen the Father", and "I and the Father are One". So, how is this not the Father come into the world?

Also - Did the Holy Spirit exist before Jesus? or did they both always exist?
Jesus was born of Mary, 2000 some years ago. The Logos is eternal. The Spirit is eternal. Jesus is the Logos made flesh.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Wasn't that the case really, considering the Logos is the eternal expression of the eternal God. Jesus said, "He that has seen me has seen the Father", and "I and the Father are One". So, how is this not the Father come into the world?

I always envisioned the trinity as a 'Godhead' scenario in Christianity, built of multiple parts (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Might be off, but I'm doubtful that when they said One they meant the same exact being. Isn't it true that most Trinitarians view God and Jesus as equivalent, but not equal?


Jesus was born of Mary, 2000 some years ago. The Logos is eternal. The Spirit is eternal. Jesus is the Logos made flesh.

So the Son has no existence without the flesh?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I always envisioned the trinity as a 'Godhead' scenario in Christianity, built of multiple parts (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Might be off, but I'm doubtful that when they said One they meant the same exact being. Isn't it true that most Trinitarians view God and Jesus as equivalent, but not equal?
The Trinity is an interesting formulation. It doesn't say that the Father and the Son are parts of the whole, such as 1/3 God, or 3 Gods. It's ultimately an inseparable mystery that the mind cannot fathom. Anytime anyone speaks of God, you necessarily enter the place of paradox. It cannot make sense rationally.

So the Son has no existence without the flesh?
The Son of God is eternal. The flesh is temporal. You said Jesus, which would be the flesh. The Logos became flesh, John 1:14. The Logos is eternal. Jesus would be God made flesh, as the Logos is God. Jesus would be eternal God manifest in temporal flesh.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
The Trinity is an interesting formulation. It doesn't say that the Father and the Son are parts of the whole, such as 1/3 God, or 3 Gods. It's ultimately an inseparable mystery that the mind cannot fathom. Anytime anyone speaks of God, you necessarily enter the place of paradox. It cannot make sense rationally.

Well, I don't think if you take one of the three out it'd leave you with 2/3 God. I think they are inseparable. Lose one of them, lose all of God. But at the same time they are three entities of one God. Like an actor portraying himself as three different characters.

The Son of God is eternal. The flesh is temporal. You said Jesus, which would be the flesh. The Logos became flesh, John 1:14. The Logos is eternal. Jesus would be God made flesh, as the Logos is God. Jesus would be eternal God manifest in temporal flesh.

So Jesus is the Son or is Logos?
 

Thana

Lady
What if God the Father, not God the Son, came to earth instead?

The Father and the Son are one. So if Jesus came, Then God came.

Also - Did the Holy Spirit exist before Jesus? or did they both always exist?

Yes, They are eternal.

John 1:1-4
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life…"

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us,"
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Son of God is the Logos. Jesus is the Logos in flesh. So Jesus is the Son of God. And so are we, as we live fully aware. This is nothing understood through reason. And no, I'm not nuts. :)
I'm going to add this to my last response to the question is Jesus the Son or the Logos. This is a quote from the 14th Century Christian mystic Meister Eckhart I feel explains what I said here very well.

"The hearing of God’s Word requires complete self-surrender. He who hears and that which is heard are identical constituents of the eternal Word. What the eternal Father teaches is his own Being, Nature, and Godhead – which he is always revealing through his only begotten Son. He teaches that we are to be identical with him.

To deny one’s self is to be the only begotten Son of God and one who does so has for himself all the properties of that Son. All God’s acts are performed and his teachings conveyed through the Son, to the point that we should be his only begotten Son. And when this is accomplished in God’s sight, he is so fond of us and so fervent that he acts as if his divine Being might be shattered and he himself annihilated if the whole foundations of his Godhead were not revealed to us, together with his nature and being. God makes haste to do this, so that it may be ours as it is his. It is here that God finds joy and rapture in fulfillment and the person who is thus within God’s knowing and love becomes just what God himself is."​

So the question what if the Father came is answered in everyone of us. The problem with a literal, theistic understanding of the Trinity is that it takes this living dynamic of the Son of God, and kicks Jesus upstairs removed from manifestation in the world, in us. What was the living God revealed and revealing, becomes an event in time and space now past. God becomes this static being in heaven and us separated down here. This is not what is expressed in this dynamism of the Trinity, and in fact much to the chagrin of many, the Trinity formulation is quite well better expressed in a Panentheistic view (God is paradoxically both wholly transcendent and wholly immanent), much more so than a theistic view (God is wholly transcendent, save for momentary events of punching a hole into our world "down here"). God did not come in history past, but rather "is coming" at all moments far better expresses this dynamism of Trinity.
 
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CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
What if God the Father, not God the Son, came to earth instead?

There would be rivers of blood and the dead would rise in hunger for the flesh of the living. The bodies of both the wicked and the good would be crushed beneath His Almighty Feet. Fire to scorch all before his gaze would emit from his eyes as he laughs a hideous cackle mocking our plight as we beg for mercy. j/k

Otherwise you miss the whole point of the Incarnation. It was the Son's job to incarnate as a human so that all may be adopted as children of the Father. What Jesus is, we are too.
 
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The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
If this would have been So,
Such a man would have sounded very very Egoistic-man!!!

Thus, both Father and Son decided for Son to go on earth :)

So do you view the Father as more of an egoist and the Son as more of a hippie?
 

chinu

chinu
So do you view the Father as more of an egoist and the Son as more of a hippie?
I think you didn't understood my point :)

Somebody claiming himself to be God.. Sounds egoistic. Whereas if one claim himself to be "Son of God" it doesn't sounds egoistic. That's why God the father decided to introduce himself as Son of God on this earth. As God the father doesn't wanted to teach his people any egoistic thing so he himself became the prototype "Son of God" in front of his people.
 

robby0024

New Member
The trinity is an interesting man made doctrine, not biblical. It was confused minds trying to make sense of things. Instead of asking of God, they created their own doctrine .
God, Jesus and the holy ghost are all separate beings. Jesus prayed to God on earth, correct? Why would he pray to himself if he himself was God? Lol!! Sounds crazy,right?
Jesus prayed to God, his father, our heavenly father. A separate being. Jesus was God's first spiritual creation. As we were all made spiritual before coming to earth, (pre-earth life).
If you wish to seek the truth, rather then man made doctrines, I invite all to go to Mormon.org | What is the Mormon Church and Religion? and there, can find the truth to all things.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The trinity is an interesting man made doctrine, not biblical. It was confused minds trying to make sense of things. Instead of asking of God, they created their own doctrine .
God, Jesus and the holy ghost are all separate beings. Jesus prayed to God on earth, correct? Why would he pray to himself if he himself was God? Lol!! Sounds crazy,right?
Jesus prayed to God, his father, our heavenly father. A separate being. Jesus was God's first spiritual creation. As we were all made spiritual before coming to earth, (pre-earth life).
If you wish to seek the truth, rather then man made doctrines, I invite all to go to Mormon.org | What is the Mormon Church and Religion? and there, can find the truth to all things.
Hi, robby, and welcome from a fellow Latter-day Saint. I hope you don't misunderstand what I'm about to say, because I promise you that, regardless of what you might think, my heart's in the right place. I've been posting here on Religious Forums for almost 10 years now and have over 25,000 posts. Jumping in with your first post and telling people where they're going to find "the truth" is probably not going to work very well for you. Try to rein it in just a tad. :)
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
What if God the Father, not God the Son, came to earth instead?
Jesus must have called in sick. He said He'd be the one to do it.

Also, if that were to happen, cue a lot of faces melting and minds being blown because no one would be able to comprehend it.

Also - Did the Holy Spirit exist before Jesus? or did they both always exist?
Both always existed.

There would be rivers of blood and the dead would rise in hunger for the flesh of the living. The bodies of both the wicked and the good would be crushed beneath His Almighty Feet. Fire to scorch all before his gaze would emit from his eyes as he laughs a hideous cackle mocking our plight as we beg for mercy. j/k

Otherwise you miss the whole point of the Incarnation. It was the Son's job to incarnate as a human so that all may be adopted as children of the Father. What Jesus is, we are too.
Also, ^this.
 

robby0024

New Member
Hi, robby, and welcome from a fellow Latter-day Saint. I hope you don't misunderstand what I'm about to say, because I promise you that, regardless of what you might think, my heart's in the right place. I've been posting here on Religious Forums for almost 10 years now and have over 25,000 posts. Jumping in with your first post and telling people where they're going to find "the truth" is probably not going to work very well for you. Try to rein it in just a tad. :)
Yeah I understand you, makes a lot of sense. Re-reading my post, I realized it did sound really pushy, arrogant and extremely for ward. Thank you for pointing that out! I needed that. And to everyone else who read my post, I apologize for being so pushy and arrogant.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Yeah I understand you, makes a lot of sense. Re-reading my post, I realized it did sound really pushy, arrogant and extremely for ward. Thank you for pointing that out! I needed that. And to everyone else who read my post, I apologize for being so pushy and arrogant.
Now you're being too hard on yourself! :) It's good to have you here.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Actually, the Biblical term is Godhead, which basically means the same thing. In Isaiah, the existence of each part is quite evident:

Isaiah 48:12,16-17:

Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. When I call to them, They stand up together.

Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.”

Emphasis, mine
 
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