What has been your experience?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry to hear things didn't work out.
I'm curious, and I'm probably not alone.
How did the Bible play a role in affecting your marriage negatively, if you don't mind sharing.

My ex (then wife) would regularly end up sobbing at the thought of my fate an an unbaptized unbeliever. To try to find a way to comfort her, I started reading the Bible, going to church with her, and generally reflecting and investigating to see if there was any way I could accept it as true, become a Christian, etc.

As I got into it, though, I found the Bible and the Church so unbelievable and repellant that I realized my intellectual integrity wouldn't let me accept it. This was part of a larger process where I went from describing myself as an agnostic and being generally apathetic about religion to realizing that I was an atheist and seeing religion (particularly Christianity) as generally negative. This didn't go over well with my ex.

 

[nPeace]

My ex (then wife) would regularly end up sobbing at the thought of my fate an an unbaptized unbeliever. To try to find a way to comfort her, I started reading the Bible, going to church with her, and generally reflecting and investigating to see if there was any way I could accept it as true, become a Christian, etc.

As I got into it, though, I found the Bible and the Church so unbelievable and repellant that I realized my intellectual integrity wouldn't let me accept it. This was part of a larger process where I went from describing myself as an agnostic and being generally apathetic about religion to realizing that I was an atheist and seeing religion (particularly Christianity) as generally negative. This didn't go over well with my ex.

Thanks for sharing.
I know of persons who have gotten along as husband and wife, despite having different views. Could that not have been the case here, don't you think?
Could you imagine... a wife actually divorced her husband because she couldn't take his snoring!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Following the Bible and Jesus left me miserable, depressed, and suicidal. It's also been the source of justifying discrimination against those like me, African-Americans, Native-Americans, homosexuals, and other minorities. Witch hunts, Crusades, and Inquisitions. It's been pretty nasty, overall.

Beautiful, history, huh

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks for sharing.
I know of persons who have gotten along as husband and wife, despite having different views. Could that not have been the case here, don't you think?

I think whether a couple with differing beliefs can work depends on a number of things... not the least of which: the specifics of the beliefs.

Believing that the god you love is planning to torture your seeetheart forever and that he’ll be right to do it isn’t a solid foundation for a healthy relationship, IMO.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Share your experience.
What has been your experience with the Bible?
Has the Bible helped people, or hindered them - changed people for the better, or for the worst?

My experience with the Bible, is that it has helped people in a major amount of ways, and changed people's lives for the better.
For example, I have seen people who were at war, become at peace with the help of the Bible; people who had violent tempers become lambs; people with marriage problems, racial differences etc. The list is very long.

What has been your experience?
If possible, please give an example or examples.

I'd be happy to share my experience. The Bible starts with broad, important topics covering them simultaneously and then trails off into specific topics covered more individually.

 

[nPeace]

I think whether a couple with differing beliefs can work depends on a number of things... not the least of which: the specifics of the beliefs.

Believing that the god you love is planning to torture your seeetheart forever and that he’ll be right to do it isn’t a solid foundation for a healthy relationship, IMO.

Your wife just needed patience imo, and a better understanding of both how not to push a loved one, and what the Bible really teaches, imo.

Not that it may make a difference here, but I've read the Bible for a quarter of a century, and I don't understand that it says that God will burn people forever and ever, amen. (Me and good few millions of others)
I usually hear that from people prancing around on a platform, and spitting it from their mouths. So I don't think the Bible can be blamed here. IMHO.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your wife just needed patience imo, and a better understanding of both how not to push a loved one, and what the Bible really teaches, imo.

It seems to me that there are as many versions of “what the Bible really teaches” as there are readers of the Bible.

Not that it may make a difference here, but I've read the Bible for a quarter of a century, and I don't understand that it says that God will burn people forever and ever, amen. (Me and good few millions of others)
I usually hear that from people prancing around on a platform, and spitting it from their mouths. So I don't think the Bible can be blamed here. IMHO.

There are certainly a lot of passages in the Gospels where Jesus proclaims that a very unpleasant fate will await unbelievers and others who have run afoul of him in the afterlife: at least according to Jesus, it’s something that will induce “wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

There are a few interpretations of what those specifics might be that are supported by the text. I think eternal hellfire is one that is certainly a reasonable interpretation, but not the only reasonable interpretation.

In my experience, what people will read into the text will depend on the preconceptions that they bring to the text. Everyone’s own version of God agrees with them, so if someone, say, believes that it would be unjust to torture someone forever, then of course God feels this way too, so the Bible couldn’t possibly be trying to say that this will happen.

OTOH, if someone doesn’t have this mental roadblock about torture, they can look at a passage about being thrown into “a fire that burns but does not consume,” note that there’s nothing else in the Bible about people being taken out of this fire, and say “I guess they stay there forever, then.”

Basically, whatever your values and beliefs, you can look into the Bible and see them there. To switch metaphors, it’s like an echo chamber: give it any opinion you like and that opinion will come out endorsed by God.

 

[shunyadragon]

Your wife just needed patience imo, and a better understanding of both how not to push a loved one, and what the Bible really teaches, imo.

Not that it may make a difference here, but I've read the Bible for a quarter of a century, and I don't understand that it says that God will burn people forever and ever, amen. (Me and good few millions of others)
I usually hear that from people prancing around on a platform, and spitting it from their mouths. So I don't think the Bible can be blamed here. IMHO.

You treat this as an individuals problem in Christianity, and that is self imposed delusion to justify your belief. My experience was not as extreme and I cannot describe it as the cause of my first divorce, because there was other issues such as my wife's depression, also my wife was not initially religious at all. Nonetheless subtle pressure increased over time from her family and friends increased the tension in our marriage, and my wife's desire to be accepted.

'What the Bible actually teaches?!?!? is a highly anecdotal subjective statement to resolve the conflict between an ancient scripture, and world view that is schizophrenic, with good and dark sides. It is the dark side that is anchored in an ancient tribal culture with an anthropomorphic God that blesses those that believe, and zaps those that do not.

 

[nPeace]

It seems to me that there are as many versions of “what the Bible really teaches” as there are readers of the Bible.


There are certainly a lot of passages in the Gospels where Jesus proclaims that a very unpleasant fate will await unbelievers and others who have run afoul of him in the afterlife: at least according to Jesus, it’s something that will induce “wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

There are a few interpretations of what those specifics might be that are supported by the text. I think eternal hellfire is one that is certainly a reasonable interpretation, but not the only reasonable interpretation.

In my experience, what people will read into the text will depend on the preconceptions that they bring to the text. Everyone’s own version of God agrees with them, so if someone, say, believes that it would be unjust to torture someone forever, then of course God feels this way too, so the Bible couldn’t possibly be trying to say that this will happen.

OTOH, if someone doesn’t have this mental roadblock about torture, they can look at a passage about being thrown into “a fire that burns but does not consume,” note that there’s nothing else in the Bible about people being taken out of this fire, and say “I guess they stay there forever, then.”

Basically, whatever your values and beliefs, you can look into the Bible and see them there. To switch metaphors, it’s like an echo chamber: give it any opinion you like and that opinion will come out endorsed by God.

No honest person can read the Bible for themselves, and believe that God will roast people forever and ever amen, imho.
Those who believe this are usually people that either believe everything that their pastor preaches... and don't know the Bible for themselves, imo.

There are countless texts in the Bible that show that they are mistaken. For one thing, the Bible says death, not life everlasting, anywhere - is the reward for those who merit God's disfavor. He promised death, not life. Death is the opposite of life. Romans 6:23
So wherever they go, they are forever dead.

The Bible also say the soul dies. It is not immortal. So no part of man, can be eternally roasted. Genesis 2:7; Ezekiel 18:4

The Bible says people come out of hell, and hell is destroyed along with death - note death - not eternal torment. So hell and death are holding hands.Revelation 20:13, 14

It is obvious to millions, that the problem here does not lie with the Bible, as many on this thread are trying to point out, but lies with those who are misrepresenting the truths in the holy scriptures.

Nothing new - People have been misrepresenting the truth for centuries.

 

[nPeace]

You treat this as an individuals problem in Christianity, and that is self imposed delusion to justify your belief. My experience was not as extreme and I cannot describe it as the cause of my first divorce, because there was other issues such as my wife's depression, also my wife was not initially religious at all. Nonetheless subtle pressure increased over time from her family and friends increased the tension in our marriage, and my wife's desire to be accepted.

'What the Bible actually teaches?!?!? is a highly anecdotal subjective statement to resolve the conflict between an ancient scripture, and world view that is schizophrenic, with good and dark sides. It is the dark side that is anchored in an ancient tribal culture with an anthropomorphic God that blesses those that believe, and zaps those that do not.

My experience for the past twenty years, have shown me that people will blame the Bible for anything - even denting their car, when they were too busy looking at the woman stepping into church in her short skirt.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No honest person can read the Bible for themselves, and believe that God will roast people forever and ever amen, imho.
Those who believe this are usually people that either believe everything that their pastor preaches... and don't know the Bible for themselves, imo.

This illustrates my point. Because you've read your opinion into the Bible, you now take it as endorsed by God and aren't willing to compromise on it, as you might be if you thought it was just your opinion.

There are countless texts in the Bible that show that they are mistaken. For one thing, the Bible says death, not life everlasting, anywhere - is the reward for those who merit God's disfavor. He promised death, not life. Death is the opposite of life. Romans 6:23
So wherever they go, they are forever dead.

The Bible also say the soul dies. It is not immortal. So no part of man, can be eternally roasted. Genesis 2:7; Ezekiel 18:4

The Bible says people come out of hell, and hell is destroyed along with death - note death - not eternal torment. So hell and death are holding hands.Revelation 20:13, 14

And the Bible says other things that support the opposite view.

... though I think you're right in one respect: the problem isn't entirely with the Bible.

The text is what it is: often vague, ambiguous, contradictory. If we approached it with this in mind, it wouldn't create the problems it does.

The big problem happens when people approach it assuming:

- it has an overall coherent message, and
- that message has no contradictions.

I get where you're coming from: you can grab a handful of verses that imply that Hell isn't a place of everlasting fiery torment and recognize them as coherent and pretty solid. I understand why you would accept that view as "the" Biblical view on the subject.

However, people just as into reading the Bible for themselves can - and have - done the same exercise with different verses and come to the opposite conclusion, just as coherent and just as solid.

In both cases, you have a coherent position derived from the Bible, so the implication - if you assume that the Bible doesn't contradict itself - is that any interpretation that suggests your position is incorrect must be incorrect itself. But how solid is that assumption that the Bible is internally consistent?

Have you ever been to any of those fire and brimstone churches? In many of them, there's a huge emphasis on being faithful to the Bible. Pastors always carefully cite the verses they use to support their positions and encourage their parishoners to bring their own Bibles to the sermons, read along, take notes, use concordances to develop a larger context, etc.

If you think these people are blindly accepting what some pastor is fabricating without bothering to see what the Bible really says, you're wrong: the Bible really does say what they believe... AND it really says what you believe.

When we talk about the Bible, we're talking about a collection of works written by dozens of authors over centuries. There's no reason to assume that all of these authors will agree on every point.

 

[nPeace]

This illustrates my point. Because you've read your opinion into the Bible, you now take it as endorsed by God and aren't willing to compromise on it, as you might be if you thought it was just your opinion.


And the Bible says other things that support the opposite view.

... though I think you're right in one respect: the problem isn't entirely with the Bible.

The text is what it is: often vague, ambiguous, contradictory. If we approached it with this in mind, it wouldn't create the problems it does.

The big problem happens when people approach it assuming:

- it has an overall coherent message, and
- that message has no contradictions.

I get where you're coming from: you can grab a handful of verses that imply that Hell isn't a place of everlasting fiery torment and recognize them as coherent and pretty solid. I understand why you would accept that view as "the" Biblical view on the subject.

However, people just as into reading the Bible for themselves can - and have - done the same exercise with different verses and come to the opposite conclusion, just as coherent and just as solid.

In both cases, you have a coherent position derived from the Bible, so the implication - if you assume that the Bible doesn't contradict itself - is that any interpretation that suggests your position is incorrect must be incorrect itself. But how solid is that assumption that the Bible is internally consistent?

Have you ever been to any of those fire and brimstone churches? In many of them, there's a huge emphasis on being faithful to the Bible. Pastors always carefully cite the verses they use to support their positions and encourage their parishoners to bring their own Bibles to the sermons, read along, take notes, use concordances to develop a larger context, etc.

If you think these people are blindly accepting what some pastor is fabricating without bothering to see what the Bible really says, you're wrong: the Bible really does say what they believe... AND it really says what you believe.

When we talk about the Bible, we're talking about a collection of works written by dozens of authors over centuries. There's no reason to assume that all of these authors will agree on every point.

There are reasons I disagree with you, but that's okay.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It seems to me that there are as many versions of “what the Bible really teaches” as there are readers of the Bible.


There are certainly a lot of passages in the Gospels where Jesus proclaims that a very unpleasant fate will await unbelievers and others who have run afoul of him in the afterlife: at least according to Jesus, it’s something that will induce “wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

There are a few interpretations of what those specifics might be that are supported by the text. I think eternal hellfire is one that is certainly a reasonable interpretation, but not the only reasonable interpretation.

In my experience, what people will read into the text will depend on the preconceptions that they bring to the text. Everyone’s own version of God agrees with them, so if someone, say, believes that it would be unjust to torture someone forever, then of course God feels this way too, so the Bible couldn’t possibly be trying to say that this will happen.

OTOH, if someone doesn’t have this mental roadblock about torture, they can look at a passage about being thrown into “a fire that burns but does not consume,” note that there’s nothing else in the Bible about people being taken out of this fire, and say “I guess they stay there forever, then.”

Basically, whatever your values and beliefs, you can look into the Bible and see them there. To switch metaphors, it’s like an echo chamber: give it any opinion you like and that opinion will come out endorsed by God.

Indeed. This is why I am not convinced the bible has any gods backing what it states.

What sort of ambiguous deity would permit such imprecision? Especially if the "message" is 1/10 as important as the bible-pushers claim?

I expect superior workmanship from any being worthy of the title "god".

The bible ain't up to that standard, not by a long shot.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No honest person can read the Bible for themselves, and believe that God will roast people forever and ever amen, imho.
Those who believe this are usually people that either believe everything that their pastor preaches... and don't know the Bible for themselves, imo.

And you would be entirely incorrect in your belief.

Show me in context where that is not the case, and you might have an argument.

There are far more verses showing that the bible's god is a jealous, vindictive, egocentric maniac than there are any other traits.

Indeed, the "god is love" claims appear to be shoe-horned in with a 10 pound hammer, held with rusty nails....

And there aren't very many, either.

 

[shunyadragon]

My experience for the past twenty years, have shown me that people will blame the Bible for anything - even denting their car, when they were too busy looking at the woman stepping into church in her short skirt.

Blame the Bible?The Bible is simply a collection of books written, edited, and compiled from different sources between ~1000 BCE and ~400 AD. There is most definitely a dark side to this compilation you are not addressing. Over the Millennia it those that follow the Bible as they believe. Referring to trivial stuff does not address the reality of the history of Christianity, the interaction between Christians with those who do not believe, What you are presented with are real problems that you are failing to address.

 

[nPeace]

Indeed. This is why I am not convinced the bible has any gods backing what it states.

What sort of ambiguous deity would permit such imprecision? Especially if the "message" is 1/10 as important as the bible-pushers claim?

I expect superior workmanship from any being worthy of the title "god".

The bible ain't up to that standard, not by a long shot.

You realize that Jesus spoke nonsense from the point of view of some, while to others he spoke words of godly wisdom to others.
Why do you think that was the case? The Bible gave the reason.
Matthew 13:10-13; 16:13-17; 1 Corinthians 3:18-20

 

[nPeace]

And you would be entirely incorrect in your belief.

Show me in context where that is not the case, and you might have an argument.

There are far more verses showing that the bible's god is a jealous, vindictive, egocentric maniac than there are any other traits.

Indeed, the "god is love" claims appear to be shoe-horned in with a 10 pound hammer, held with rusty nails....

And there aren't very many, either.

What do you mean

Show me in context where that is not the case

I showed a number of scriptures, and a video. All one has to do now is honestly, and humbly - with an open mind, research the topic. Surely one should come to a final conclusion.
If after you thoroughly research the subject, let me know what you find.

 

[nPeace]

Blame the Bible?The Bible is simply a collection of books written, edited, and compiled from different sources between ~1000 BCE and ~400 AD. There is most definitely a dark side to this compilation you are not addressing. Over the Millennia it those that follow the Bible as they believe. Referring to trivial stuff does not address the reality of the history of Christianity, the interaction between Christians with those who do not believe, What you are presented with are real problems that you are failing to address.

I don't see a dark side. Actually I see a bright side, and if indeed there was a sinister plot by those who put it together, I personally want to thank those guys. Not only I, but I'm sure a few who posted their experience on this thread would do the same.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You realize that Jesus spoke nonsense from the point of view of some, while to others he spoke words of godly wisdom to others.
Why do you think that was the case? The Bible gave the reason.
Matthew 13:10-13; 16:13-17; 1 Corinthians 3:18-20

Sorry? Your snippet 100% misses my point.

IF there were an actual god? There would only be the one (1) version of Christianity.

What mere human (false) version could compete?

The 40,000 different brands cannot all be right-- they contradict one another in fatal ways.

But.

They can certainly all be wrong.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

What do you mean
I showed a number of scriptures, and a video. All one has to do now is honestly, and humbly - with an open mind, research the topic. Surely one should come to a final conclusion.
If after you thoroughly research the subject, let me know what you find.

My, my how judgmental you are! You assume I've never done any of those things!

Ain't YOU just some sort of self-proclaimed above-it-all.

What ever happened to "Judge Not, lest Ye Be Judged"?