What Happens When You Die?

[DanielR]

Really?
I felt the same for a while.


Life is a sandbox. You can shape it according to your desire. The limit of our ability we have to shape our life I'm not sure. I'm still finding out. However I can create a lot. Kind of important to discover what you really want though.

However we get conditioned/taught to believe in some idea of what we should want. Money, fame, power. You'll probably find these things are not as satisfying as you were led to believe.

The true value in life is the experience of life itself. All of the experience. The good and the bad, gain and loss, joy and suffering. Just can't get too attached to what you create because it's just sand. It won't retain it form forever. However you can always create something new.

I'm really tired, I've had a horrible life so far, I find all this cycling really nauseating.

 

[Nakosis]

Sure, yeah.
It was my fault for actually asking for evidence. I guess this means I am not interessted

Actually, the reason why I ask is, because I want to understand the world as good as I can.
You suggests way I might be able to reach the same experiences as you, but here is the thing:
I've never asked you to prove to me that your experience is true! I believe you, that you've experienced stuff!
But you also interpret things into it (like, that there is a deeper truth to it, than just your brain playing tricks on you... which we know is a very likely and demonstrable explanation for all kinds of experiences), and I still don't know how you demonstrated the truth of this.

Fair enough, how does one demonstrate the truth of something. Usually I provide enough knowledge and experience that they can make this determination for themselves.

However that is with things I have experience with teaching.

I'm not a Guru, I'm still trying to understand myself. I have to work with the reality of my perceptions regardless of how reliable, same as anyone and try to fit that to my understanding of reality.

There is an apparent "spiritual" reality of which there is not a very good reason to trust anyone else's claims about. That's the best I can honestly say.

Sorry I can't really provide any more certainty.

Certainty is provided by consistent results. Explanations works as long as they remain consistent with the results.

A lot of what has been explained I can't verify so I tentatively accept what seems the best explanation, it this case, Buddhism and Hinduism, until a better explanation presents itself.

And even the Buddhist and Hindu argue amongst themselves as to the correct explanation.

But then so do scientists. It's just the way of things.

I just stick with what works for me. I don't necessarily expect them to work for anyone else and am sometimes surprised by other people claiming they do.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm really tired, I've had a horrible life so far, I find all this cycling really nauseating.

Isn't there anything you enjoy?

I have issues, problems, times when I'd rather not continue on.

I honestly distract myself with things I enjoy. It helps in difficult times.

Another trick is to laugh out loud even if you don't feel like it. Your body will react as if you truly felt it. Release endorphins and soon you'll feel better in spite of your problems.

Spiritual stuff is easy to intellectualize about when things are going good. Not so easy when they are not.

Another cliche is the only guarantee in life is change. So if you don't like the way things are now, just wait a bit and things will change.

I kind of expect life to throw every possible obstacle it can at me. I suppose the challenge is to not let any of it defeat me and keep on going as long as I can.

 

[godnotgod]

Thanks, finally I watched the video, it was great, I quite like Alan Watts


so basically it will never end? Brahman or Sunyata (in the case posted by you) will play Hide & Seek forever?

Yes, if you want it to. Or you can make efforts to awaken. Identification, or that which keeps us asleep and dreaming, has a head start on us, as social indoctrination begins the moment we are born into this life. Add to this our biology, which, believe it or not, contributes to the problem. Then there is the reinforcement all around us from other sleeping people who want to keep us asleep and in the dream. We are bombarded day and night with advertising which keeps us wanting things we don't need, with peer group pressure to 'belong' and perform, with religious messages that make us feel we are a miserable speck of unworthy crap. We live pursuing the lower three centers of conscious awareness that are Addictions: Power, Sensation, and Security, all of which keep us asleep. The odds are against Awakening.

So what happens when you awaken? You see the see-saw events of life, those which bring either joy or suffering, as temporal, first of all. You also see that they are relative to one another. We call these states 'Relative Joy', and 'Relative Suffering'. It is from this new vantage point that instead of being led on emotionally by these two states, begins to see them instead as a study. But we remain in the state of Identification because we are attached to our desires and our notion of self, which, when life's experiences occur, we think there is an experiencer of the experience. When we can attain to the Fourth Level of Consciousness, that of Self-Transcendence, or Self-Remembering, we can simply observe ourselves caught in the drama of the Third Level of Identification. The ultimate goal in this effort to awaken is to attain to the state of Absolute Joy, for which there is no opposite, no birth and no death.

Just the fact that you are here on this forum is indicative of the fact that something is prompting you to awaken. That something is the Absolute, or Brahman, or your True Nature, subtly nudging you from within. It is THAT which is playing out the drama you experience as DanielR in Identification, but it is only a game of Hide and Seek.

Most of the time, we don't hear the quiet voice from within because of the noise of our social life and the constant chatter of the thinking mind. That is why meditation is an effective tool in subduing these annoyances and in recharging our batteries.

Phillip Kapleau, the Zen Master who wrote 'The Three Pillars of Zen', stamped the bindings of his books with the image of a salmon, leaping upstream to go home, using every last ounce of its energy to do so. When we play The Master Game, which is the game of spiritual awakening, we cannot play it half-heartedly. It demands everything that we are.

Relative Suffering ends when we are able to awaken sufficiently to see through the ego's machinations and overcome our attachments for its insatiable desire for gratification.

 

[Thief]

I would say that birth and death are part of the dream world, and that a true Awakening is to transcend both life and death. Then you realize your true nature, which is Unborn. Being Unborn, how can you die, when you yourself are the Indestructible Sunyata itself, pretending to be something other than who you really are in the cosmic game of Hide and Seek?

Who is it that lives?

Who is it that dies?

Watch..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU0PYcCsL6o

I see your 'cycle' switch is still on.

 

[DanielR]

Isn't there anything you enjoy?

I have issues, problems, times when I'd rather not continue on.

I honestly distract myself with things I enjoy. It helps in difficult times.

Another trick is to laugh out loud even if you don't feel like it. Your body will react as if you truly felt it. Release endorphins and soon you'll feel better in spite of your problems.

Spiritual stuff is easy to intellectualize about when things are going good. Not so easy when they are not.

Another cliche is the only guarantee in life is change. So if you don't like the way things are now, just wait a bit and things will change.

I kind of expect life to throw every possible obstacle it can at me. I suppose the challenge is to not let any of it defeat me and keep on going as long as I can.

Thanks for the cheer up ! Yeah, I'm really struggling right now. Life is change that's true, but I'm just overly pessimistic about the future, I think it's my wrong view of life. I have a problem with the fact that 'I' created all of this, I just want to wake up! (With I, I don't mean me Daniel but Brahman or whatever)

Regards

 

[DanielR]

Yes, if you want it to. Or you can make efforts to awaken.

Hi godnotgod, thanks for answering my posts, I agree with the rest of your post but have to say something to the quote above.

Can I really do anything? Isn't it also just part of the dream? Isn't effort kind of useless. If it (awakening) happens it happens because IT dreamt it.

I think I will refrain from posting in this thread, don't want to bring the mood down here lol.

thanks to everyone who took time to answer!

 

[godnotgod]

Hi godnotgod, thanks for answering my posts, I agree with the rest of your post but have to say something to the quote above.

Can I really do anything? Isn't it also just part of the dream? Isn't effort kind of useless. If it (awakening) happens it happens because IT dreamt it.

I think I will refrain from posting in this thread, don't want to bring the mood down here lol.

thanks to everyone who took time to answer!

No, I do not think effort is useless, but from what you have posted, I strongly think you would benefit greatly from some instruction/guidance in a path you feel comfortable with. Sounds like your current life situation is pretty negative, and I wonder if a lot of it may have to do with just the way things are in general for many of us. I can't really give you advice, as everyone is different, but basically, a lot of the way I did it is to just make one small change at a time, pulling in the loose ends of your life and getting things as manageable as possible so they do not remain as obstacles to your spiritual progress.

I can only tell you a bit of my experience, and that was about my visits to the San Francisco Zen Center. Each time I visited, I sensed a wonderful positive group energy abounding, which had a great effect upon me. I was also lucky enough to have had a yogic brother around who constantly provided queues, keeping my attention alive. I would even go so far as to mention the possibility of a retreat as a means of getting a handle on things. But whatever you decide, try getting yourself physically into the company of enlightened people. This alone will help you to become more and more aware of your own enlightenment. But basically, a little breathwork and constant attentiveness (mindfullness) to what is in the present moment is paramount to any pathway, but most importantly, don't give up. I have been down there many times, and one thing that pulls me right out is basic chanting. The three most prominent ones are:

'Om namah shivaya' (Hindu)
'Om mani padme hum' (Tibetan Buddhist)
'Nam myoho renge kyo' (Japanese Buddhist)

I use the first one myself, but have heard that the other two are very powerful as well. Look them up on Google for more info and meaning.

Study can take you only so far. It needs to include some form of practice, and that is where seeking a teacher or group can prove invaluable, as they can point out something to you that you are completely unaware of in an instant, when you may have been struggling for a long time.

Please don't leave because you feel you are some sort of problem for the rest of us. You're not, and we need input and support from each other in order to grow. We are the divine nature giving each other a piece of the puzzle on the return journey back to our supreme happiness, Absolute Joy. A Zen monk once said:

'From Brilliancy I came;
To Brilliancy I return.
What, then, is all of this?'

And as for the notion that "I" am causing my own suffering, I will never forget a 1950's TV show in which the two Christian hosts had as their guest a lay Buddhist, whom they kept prodding with things like: "C'mon, you have sins, don'cha?", to which the Buddhist replied: "Yes, but they weren't MY sins!"

Take heart, my friend.

 

[godnotgod]

Can I really do anything? Isn't it also just part of the dream? Isn't effort kind of useless. If it (awakening) happens it happens because IT dreamt it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTEoUZkTuwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kra4fGJyfm4

 

[DanielR]

No, I do not think effort is useless, but from what you have posted, I strongly think you would benefit greatly from some instruction/guidance in a path you feel comfortable with. Sounds like your current life situation is pretty negative, and I wonder if a lot of it may have to do with just the way things are in general for many of us. I can't really give you advice, as everyone is different, but basically, a lot of the way I did it is to just make one small change at a time, pulling in the loose ends of your life and getting things as manageable as possible so they do not remain as obstacles to your spiritual progress.

I can only tell you a bit of my experience, and that was about my visits to the San Francisco Zen Center. Each time I visited, I sensed a wonderful positive group energy abounding, which had a great effect upon me. I was also lucky enough to have had a yogic brother around who constantly provided queues, keeping my attention alive. I would even go so far as to mention the possibility of a retreat as a means of getting a handle on things. But whatever you decide, try getting yourself physically into the company of enlightened people. This alone will help you to become more and more aware of your own enlightenment. But basically, a little breathwork and constant attentiveness (mindfullness) to what is in the present moment is paramount to any pathway, but most importantly, don't give up. I have been down there many times, and one thing that pulls me right out is basic chanting. The three most prominent ones are:

'Om namah shivaya' (Hindu)
'Om mani padme hum' (Tibetan Buddhist)
'Nam myoho renge kyo' (Japanese Buddhist)

I use the first one myself, but have heard that the other two are very powerful as well. Look them up on Google for more info and meaning.

Study can take you only so far. It needs to include some form of practice, and that is where seeking a teacher or group can prove invaluable, as they can point out something to you that you are completely unaware of in an instant, when you may have been struggling for a long time.

Please don't leave because you feel you are some sort of problem for the rest of us. You're not, and we need input and support from each other in order to grow. We are the divine nature giving each other a piece of the puzzle on the return journey back to our supreme happiness, Absolute Joy. A Zen monk once said:

'From Brilliancy I came;
To Brilliancy I return.
What, then, is all of this?'

And as for the notion that "I" am causing my own suffering, I will never forget a 1950's TV show in which the two Christian hosts had as their guest a lay Buddhist, whom they kept prodding with things like: "C'mon, you have sins, don'cha?", to which the Buddhist replied: "Yes, but they weren't MY sins!"

Take heart, my friend.

Thanks for your concern gng . I was thinking about joining a Zen meditation group as of late, since it's very hard for me here (in Vienna, Austria) to find a right Advaita guru, nearly impossible, that's also why I come across a little bit uneducated (concerning nonduality).

I stopped my breathing meditation because I thought it was 'maybe' useless or that it didn't matter anyway, I may continue my practice today.

Chanting really helps? I'll try it!

Regards

 

[godnotgod]

Thanks for your concern gng . I was thinking about joining a Zen meditation group as of late, since it's very hard for me here (in Vienna, Austria) to find a right Advaita guru, nearly impossible, that's also why I come across a little bit uneducated (concerning nonduality).

I stopped my breathing meditation because I thought it was 'maybe' useless or that it didn't matter anyway, I may continue my practice today.

Chanting really helps? I'll try it!

Regards

Wish you success on the Zen path. Is there a Zen monastery in Vienna? This would provide expanded support services over a meditation group, and even free Zen sitting instruction if you're in luck, not to mention lectures, retreats, a kitchen and dining room, and a library.

Zen sitting will definitely involve breath work.

re: chanting: I have chanted away many a bodily pain over the years that for all purposes were felt as physical pain. I know it works for me 100%. I once talked with a Buddhist who claimed to have healed himself of a confirmed liver disease by chanting the Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. I referred the NMRK chant to another online fellow who already had experience in chanting. He reported back to me how powerful it was for him. If you check online, you will find a huge worldwide following behind this chant, which was originally advanced by the Buddhist priest Nichiren in the 13th century, based on the Lotus Sutra.

Lotus Sutra | Buddhism | Soka Gakkai International (SGI)

I like to think that your meeting with Nakosis and myself is no accident. It reminds me of this:

The Preciousness of Our Human Life
by Kamala Masters

As a human being, we have the greatest potential of all creatures on earth to realize the Dhamma, the true nature of reality; to experience an ineffable, unconditional peace; and to discover a way of living that is in harmony with the profound truths of life. But, according to the Buddha, our human birth, [and the opportunity to hear the Dharma], is very rare. There is a classic story about this rarity in the Pali Canon, the ancient text recording his teachings:

The Buddha was speaking to a group of monks. He said,

“Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole into the water. A wind from the West would push it East; a wind from the East would push it West; a wind from the North would push it South; a wind from the South would push it North. And suppose a blind sea turtle were there. It would come to the surface only once every 100 years. Now what do you suppose the chances would be that a blind turtle, coming once to the surface every 100 years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?”

And the monks answered,

“It would be very unusual, Sir, that a blind turtle coming to the surface once every
hundred years would stick his neck into the yoke.”

And the Buddha replied,

“And just so, it is very, very rare that one attains the human state.”

That is the example the Buddha gave of how rare the chances are and how precious it is to be born as a human being. If this is so and even if it isn’t I ask myself this question: Am I taking care to live my life in a way that honors this precious human birth and makes the best use of it?

http://vipassanametta.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/The-Preciousness-of-Our-Human-Life.pdf

It seems almost paradoxical, in light of the above, what Zen says about Enlightenment:

"Before Enlightenment, it is Something Special;
After Enlightenment, it is Nothing Special"

 

[godnotgod]

And yet, it took us that long, to actually find out about quantum physics and all of that...
Why?
Well, maybe because the teachings you now (retrospectivly) match to the scientific discoveries don't really describe anything about our understanding of quantum physics.

Are you kidding? Science doesn't have an understanding of Quantum Physics! It is the very reason that famed Quantum physicist Anton Zeller consults with the Dalai Lama and his monks every so many years to consult with him about what his findings in QM mean.

Did you even bother to check the links I provided, which explain how Buddhist thought synchs with these scientific discoveries?

Actually, the teachings I refer to tell us more about QM than science does. While science tells us what the mechanics are, it has no understanding as to what it is witnessing. The mystical view has already addressed this question: the behavior of the universe known as QM (and all the rest in its entirety) can be summed up in one word: maya. IOW, what you call the real, physical world is not the real physical world. Now you have two teachings showing you the illusory nature of your old, worn out paradigm: QM and spirituality! But, and not that it is making any claim to the discovery, spirituality said so first. 4000 years ago 'first'. Sorry! I can tell you one thing, though. One of the reasons science doesn't have a handle on understanding what it is looking at is that it is looking with a dissected view through a microscope, and therefore yields a fragmented, rather than the holistic view offered up by the East. We call the scientific view 'Spotlight Attention', and that of the East, 'Floodlight Attention'.

This is in no way different, than the christian saying "Look, in this verse the bible says "The things of the world are made up of the things we cannot see" (paraphrasing on my part, I don't have the verse memorized and it doesn't matter)! This means, he was talking about atoms! See, the bible was talking about atoms, long before we knew that atoms existed!"
No, sorry. If this text had been talking about atoms, it would have been specific enough to actually identify atoms in the text.
And if your teachings were refering to quantum physics, than that's what it would have been talking about.

C'mon! Science itself imagined atoms to be solid material until further investigation. Eastern thought had the nature of the material world nailed thousands of years ago. Science only recently confirmed that atoms are like 99.9999999% empty space! And the latest cutting edge theoretical physics (Lawrence Krauss) is telling us the universe came out of nothing. But we already knew that. Someday the sophisticated scientific instruments of today will be in a museum and laughed at.

But ok, in that case:
I assume your teachings can already solve some of the mysteries and problems current physics is working on.
Or will it just be, that after they have discovered it, we will hear that the eastern teachings have always said these things (again)?

You're missing the point.....again! As I told you, we have no objection at all to science. That it is busy discovering the details of the Big Picture we offer is fine with us. Go science! Just don't try to tell us you understand the nature of Reality, let alone the nature of human existence! You got the piano parts; we got the music. But take note that we cut to the heart of the matter, which is the music, and not the piano, which is a poor analogy anyway, as the universe is not a dead thing like a piano, but alive and conscious, and highly intelligent; far more intelligent than scientific intelligence.

Never mind big pharma, btw!
Why don't your teachings provide us with a cure for cancer? Or a source for sustainable energy?
Sure, you are saying that your teachings are just telling you the "underlying truth", or whatever, but given that we have overlayd problems here, that demand demonstrable solving, I'm not impressed by people who tell me that they have found the underlying truth, which we all have to discover for ourselves.

Sure. Never mind Big Pharma, which exacerbates the problem of us finding a cure for cancer and all the rest, as it mainly keeps people sick!

Just know that, along with the spiritual experience, comes an intuitive understanding of how to live your life, and that includes things like a balanced lifestyle with a small carbon footprint; a healthy diet is preventative medicine. Western fast foods have dramatically inundated the Mediterranean region and have caused colon cancer to skyrocket, in an area once considered to have the healthiest diet in the world. What do you think all of the emphasis on organic foods in the media is about? We KNOW what the truth is now. Your science, in bed with Big Business and technology, have created the monster known as Monsanto. Or do you have a clue? At least the Europeans seem to have a bit more sense than clueless Americans: they won't allow genetically modified foods into the area. The Hopi Indians here in New Mexico, seeing the onslaught that was coming from Monsanto, gathered up all their native squash seeds and created a seed bank to save the species. I am willing to bet that if you were to check the cancer levels of original indigenous native groups throughout the world, you would probably find little or no cancer present in their cultures. Add heart disease, neurosis, and the like. I can tell you that studies have shown that the health of new immigrants from Mexico into the US is better than most Americans, but that after several years, they, too suffer many illnesses due to toxic American fast foods, particularly diabetes. There is, in fact, a current diabetes epidemic in Los Angeles amongst Latinos.

Science is the prostitute to technology, Big Business, and the war machine, even in, or especially in, space exploration. OTOH, spiritualists' emphasis is on peace, love, and happiness through right thinking, and right action, amongst others. Please don't misunderstand: I love technology and science, but in harmony and balance with the environment. Right now, it is out of control. Why? Because we fail to nurture a spiritual view that keeps them in balance.

 

[Apple Sugar]

Chopra is an ideal example for having achieved success having exploited the ignorance the west holds of eastern mysticism and medicine.
He's a graduate of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Transcendental meditation and Ayurvedic medicine. He's taken quantum physics and wrapped it in the Maharishi's teachings and he's become a millionaire for the effort.

And after all that, he knows nothing about what happens after we die. He knows what he's been told happens after we die.

That's why they're called "near" death experiences.

What happens when we die. When this body loses all biological and electrical function that gives life, this body that possesses a nervous system and a human consciousness, all cerebral experiential and somatic compartments, we have no idea what happens next. Because we don't possess anything we know now that would allow us to be aware.

What happens after we die? Why worry? When we're dead we can't. That's the point. Does air cry? Does sound scream in pain? (For those who believe in Hell or a painful afterlife possibility).
Physics tells us all things are made of energy that moves constantly and to a rhythm. A rhythmic energy that can be changed by vibration, harmonics, sound. When we die,being we're now electricity, water, and atoms, we continue to be electricity and atoms. Water, not so much maybe. We return to what is behind what makes this reality appear real. We become power. While now we're empowered in flesh.


(Certainly not Hell, for my fellow Christians who may worry about that. If Hell exists then we've wasted our time defending God as an all knowing omni-benevolent spirit that is love. (per the scriptures) )

In a recent interview, famed medical doctor and spiritualist Deepak Chopra stated the following:

Q: What happens when you die, Deepak?

Chopra: What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are. If you realize right now that there's no such thing as a person, you'll be all set.

Q: What do you mean, I'll be all set?

Chopra: Then if you shift your identity to that consciousness that is differentiating as observer and observant, you'll know there's nothing to fear.

Q: You have no fear of death.

Chopra: No Sir! Why? Because I don't exist in the first place!

Q: Can you get reincarnated as a soul?

Chopra: [Sighs] Wisps of memory and threads of desire, which are specks of information, latch onto specks of consciousness and show up as recycled human beings. But in the bigger picture, the observer, the observed, the process of observation, is a single reality.

Q: So... Deepak Chopra, as I know him [questioner taps the sitting Chopra solidly on the knee for effect] my friend Chopra... doesn't exist?

Chopra: A transient behavior of... the total universe.

What do you think Chopra means when he says:

"What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are."

Here also is the video of the interview:

[youtube]erOD_2AxzI0[/youtube]
Deepak Chopra "Life After Death" Interview Hottype - YouTube

 

[godnotgod]

Chopra is an ideal example for having achieved success having exploited the ignorance the west holds of eastern mysticism and medicine.
He's a graduate of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Transcendental meditation and Ayurvedic medicine. He's taken quantum physics and wrapped it in the Maharishi's teachings and he's become a millionaire for the effort.

And after all that, he knows nothing about what happens after we die. He knows what he's been told happens after we die.

That's why they're called "near" death experiences.

What happens when we die. When this body loses all biological and electrical function that gives life, this body that possesses a nervous system and a human consciousness, all cerebral experiential and somatic compartments, we have no idea what happens next. Because we don't possess anything we know now that would allow us to be aware.

What happens after we die? Why worry? When we're dead we can't. That's the point. Does air cry? Does sound scream in pain? (For those who believe in Hell or a painful afterlife possibility).
Physics tells us all things are made of energy that moves constantly and to a rhythm. A rhythmic energy that can be changed by vibration, harmonics, sound. When we die,being we're now electricity, water, and atoms, we continue to be electricity and atoms. Water, not so much maybe. We return to what is behind what makes this reality appear real. We become power. While now we're empowered in flesh.


(Certainly not Hell, for my fellow Christians who may worry about that. If Hell exists then we've wasted our time defending God as an all knowing omni-benevolent spirit that is love. (per the scriptures) )

Ho hum. Another reductionist simplistic 'explanation' of life and existence.

'Man is NOTHING MORE THAN a chemical factory!'

Crap!

Look here: if you want to know what happens when you die, just die now. Then you'll know.

 

[Apple Sugar]

Ho hum. Another reductionist simplistic 'explanation' of life and existence.

'Man is NOTHING MORE THAN a chemical factory!'

Crap!

Look here: if you want to know what happens when you die, just die now. Then you'll know.

I have.

That's why I shared with people who haven't. Therefore, the crap would be yours.

 

[Muffled]

Sure it does, its the only place you have conscious thought from.


OR you would be able to explain why brain damage, effects consciousness.


Um that last part is fantasy and imagination

I suppose that means consciousness of which the outside world is aware. Usually brain damaged people have measurable brain activity. At any rate it appears to me that one can't tell anthing about conscious ness unless it is outwardly expressed.

 

[RichardParker]

Are you kidding? Science doesn't have an understanding of Quantum Physics! It is the very reason that famed Quantum physicist Anton Zeller consults with the Dalai Lama and his monks every so many years to consult with him about what his findings in QM mean.

First of all:
I didn't say we understand everything about quantum mechanics.
What I did was pointing to the current understanding on the subject we do have. This is NOT complete, but it's at least good enough to make testable predictions!

And you know what: As soon as Anton Zeller and the Dalai Lama publish together a paper that contains actual scientific findings that result from their consultations, I will consider it valide that he approached the Dalai Lama for this question. But given that the Dalai Lama has no degree in Quantum Physics, I don't know why Zeller does it, and personally, I don't know why anybody should care about the fact that he does such a thing.
But again: As soon as the Dalai Lama presents his paper, I'm sure this approach will be justified.

Did you even bother to check the links I provided, which explain how Buddhist thought synchs with these scientific discoveries?

Yes... and as I've explained, that means as much to me as the fact, that christians can synch the teachings of their bible to the things that science has discovered... and always after the fact.
Look, if your teachings are that great, then why don't they f.e. provide at the moment any solutions to the questions modern physics currently struggles with? Do we have to wait again, until we make the scientific discoveries, until you come out and explain that your religion or philosophy has always tought that?
Let me ask you something: Why weren't the earliest publications about the true nature of the atoms, which you now claim have been tought by your philosophy for such along time, not made long, long ago, by the people who fallow your philosophy? Why did it took such a long time, and work completly independend for your philosophy to actually establish the science that now deals with that?
If your philosophy had known that for such a long time, it would have been known for such a long time. The fact that you can now retroactivly make it fit is not a convincing argument.

Actually, the teachings I refer to tell us more about QM than science does. While science tells us what the mechanics are, it has no understanding as to what it is witnessing. The mystical view has already addressed this question: the behavior of the universe known as QM (and all the rest in its entirety) can be summed up in one word: maya. IOW, what you call the real, physical world is not the real physical world.

What testable prediction and practical applications allow this model? Because so far, it's an assertion. Not much more.

Now you have two teachings showing you the illusory nature of your old, worn out paradigm: QM and spirituality!

I don't know a single view of mine that contradicts with QM. I know some that conflict with your view of spirituality... but given that one seems to make testable predictions (QM) and the other doesn't (your spirituality), it's important to me, to match my views with one of them, but not the other.

C'mon! Science itself imagined atoms to be solid material until further investigation. Eastern thought had the nature of the material world nailed thousands of years ago. Science only recently confirmed that atoms are like 99.9999999% empty space!

Yes, and you know why it took us so long to figure this stuff out?
Because it wasn't known before, and no religion or philosophy made any real claim about that. Matching it after the fact isn't convincing.

But we already knew that. Someday the sophisticated scientific instruments of today will be in a museum and laughed at.

And yet, until scientists confirmed it, it was just an empty assertion that had no scientific value.

The universe is not a dead thing like a piano, but alive and conscious, and highly intelligent; far more intelligent than scientific intelligence.

Assertion, without any evidence.
What IQ does the universe have? And how did you test its intelligence? And its consciousness? Because I'm aware of many things inside the universe that are highly intelligent, but the universe itself? That's an assertion, so far.

But it's certainly not alive. Being "alive" has a specific meaning. It referes to something with very specific biological and biochemical properties, which don't apply to the universe. So this statement is false.

Sure. Never mind Big Pharma, which exacerbates the problem of us finding a cure for cancer and all the rest, as it mainly keeps people sick!

Then why don't you change that?
Heck, your philsophy knows so much about the world of science, and seems always to be a step ahead of all the scientists... why don't you provide any way of curing cancer... or even just a testable proposition of fighting it?
Or will you tell me, that you've already found it in a couple of decates, when we actually found it though the scientific process?

Just know that, along with the spiritual experience, comes an intuitive understanding of how to live your life, and that includes things like a balanced lifestyle with a small carbon footprint; a healthy diet is preventative medicine. Western fast foods have dramatically inundated the Mediterranean region and have caused colon cancer to skyrocket, in an area once considered to have the healthiest diet in the world. What do you think all of the emphasis on organic foods in the media is about? We KNOW what the truth is now.

Ah... yeah...
And we found that through science, thank you very much.
I mean, I don't disagree with any of the things you've said about living healthy and things like that... but these are scientificly demonstrated conclusions.

At least the Europeans seem to have a bit more sense than clueless Americans: they won't allow genetically modified foods into the area.

Well, I am European. And I know that the claim that we don't allow genetically modified food here is b.s.
Genetically modified food is an important part of modern agriculture. It provides many actual benefits, and the disadvantages are not the monsters uninformed people think they are. It's a scaremongering-tactic, as we've always seen with new technology.
Of course, I'm not saying that there are NO problems with genetically modified food, but we can (and probably have to) learn to handle these problems in the future... not just scare the **** out of the population with nightmare-tales about genetically altered zombie-plants that will insert their DNA into you, when you eat them...

 

[RichardParker]

I can tell you that studies have shown that the health of new immigrants from Mexico into the US is better than most Americans, but that after several years, they, too suffer many illnesses due to toxic American fast foods, particularly diabetes.

Yep. These are scientificly proven facts... and thanks to the scientific method, we also know WHY these things are so dangerous and problematic... which then can lead to actual ways of batteling these problems.
I don't see any link to your spirituality with that stuff, though.

Science is the prostitute to technology, Big Business, and the war machine, even in, or especially in, space exploration.

Science is the search for knowledge about our world. What individual scientists or other people then do with that knowledge, THAT'S a different subject. But this science-bashing, from the keyboard of a machine that has been given to you by ONLY science (and that had absolutly no tie to your spirituality to getting created) seems fairly hypocritical.
I understand that you claim to not be anti science, and that your philosophy doesn't disagree with science... and yet you seem to hold many views that are extremly prevalent in anti-science groups, I have to say. You are willing to attribute all the positive contributions science has made to the world and your life in some way to your philosophy, and reject all the bad things people have done with science (or sometimes actually in their misunderstanding of science) and say that these are the parts that have nothing to do with your philosophy, and your philosophy could have prevented, or at least teaches against it.
It's a picking-and-choosing attitude, which, as I've explained, is something that is extremly prevalent in many religous groups. It's pretty much the same as christians always do, when they explain that "modern science has been invented by christians!" when they try to attribute the modern scientific discoveries to their religion, and will then explain that "the modern emphasis of science leads to all the bad things in the world! Our religions has so many better teachings", whenever it suits them.

I love technology and science, but in harmony and balance with the environment. Right now, it is out of control. Why? Because we fail to nurture a spiritual view that keeps them in balance.

No, it's because we have a human nature that has a predisposition for things like greed. And we also have a global politics that causes a lot of trouble, and inequalities, and we have a bad tendency of thinking in short-time results than in long-time plans.

I understand that you will now equate all these things to the "lack of spirituality" or so, but these are not spiritual problems. These are absolutly, 100% wordly problems, and the solutions to those will come from worldly approaches... as they almost always have.

 

[Nakosis]

What happens when you die.

According to the Tibetan Book of the Dead a person enters a hallucinatory state called Sidpa Bardo.

During this time what the individual experiences depend on the kharma of the individual. They will see familiar places, friends and relatives as if in a dream. They may see the sorrow of friends and relatives and come to realize their own death. This can cause great misery and sense of loss. Attachments to loved ones and life will not avail you. You may try to call out to relatives but they will not respond. You may try to reenter the physical body. No satisfaction will be found in the attempt.

For around 3 weeks or so the individual wander about in a grey twilight state where there is no day or night.

After a time kharma will drive the individual towards an awesome darkness. What happen then depends on the individual. They may experience demons and evil beast chasing them. Or they may experience pleasurable things. Or they having neither good nor bad kharma may experience nothing which will make it a very boring time.

There may be periods of rest, but kharma will not allow the individual to remain at rest for long.

After a time the individual will come to face judgement for their good and evil deeds during life. However there is nothing to fear here as one's consciousness is incapable of dying. One may seem to be judge by the God of Death. However there is nothing actually outside of oneself that will be judging.

One will experience in this state of existence an intensity of brightness and voidness which are inseparable. This is the nature of the unmodified intellect.

Unless one is able to gain liberation from the cycle of rebirth then one will, depending on kharma, come to be rebirthed in one of the six realms.

The Deva a place of pleasure and happiness
The Asura a place where Gods battle
The human plane where you now exist
The plane of beasts
The preta a kind of purgatory, a place of constant hunger.
Hell those drawn here by their hatred and desire for evil.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

According to these verses the Bible says that the soul that sins (breaks God’s law) shall die. Just like a criminal who steals and breaks the law must be punished, so there is also a punishment for breaking God’s law. This is what many people would refer to as Hell or the Lake of Fire.

Now let’s look at some of the Ten Commandments (God’s law):

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Simply put, this commandment means that nothing in our life is to be more important to us than God; nothing should take the place of God in our lives. Many people do this with money, sex, drugs, friends, family, etc. For me it was sex and drugs. Whatever has the biggest priority in your life is your “god”.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

This verse is talking about making false gods (statues) out of wood, stone, metal, etc.

Even though most people don’t make stone idols today, many people do this very same thing by inventing a god to suit themselves. For example, a homosexual creates his idea of a god that does not think homosexuality is a sin, and a drug addict creates his own idea of a god who doesn’t views illegal drugs as a sin. Many times people create a god who does not punish people in a place called Hell, or they create a god who views sex outside of marriage as being acceptable.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Basically this commandment says to give God one day of our week. This is done today by going to a church. How many times have you not gone to a church because of something else like a sports game, or because you just did not want to get out of bed.

Exodus 20:12  Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Have you always obeyed your dad and mom? But let’s take it even a step further, have you always obeyed with a good attitude? We can outwardly obey while inwardly dishonoring. Have you ever dishonored your parents in any way?

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

This is the one where everyone feels good about themselves: but do you know that the bible says if you have hatred in your heart towards someone that you have committed murder? Have you ever hated anyone

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Adultery is when we have sex with someone else’s spouse, but Jesus said if you look on someone to lust after them, that you have committed adultery in your heart. Have you ever looked on someone you were not married to and had lust in your heart?

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Have you ever stolen anything? Even one time?

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Have you told a lie? Did you know it only takes one lie for you to become a liar? It only takes one murder for someone to become a murderer. Keep the following verse in mind:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So if you died today and stood before God would you be innocent or guilty?

But before you answer that question keep this verse in mind:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend [or break] in one point, he is guilty of all.

Just like it only takes one broken link to ruin a chain, God looks at one little lie as you breaking all of His commandments. Many of us would say that Adolf Hitler is guilty before God and worthy of Hell because of the millions of people he murdered. But if you only told one lie, you are just as guilty before God as Hitler! God does not look at sin the way we do; ALL sins are a SERIOUS thing in the eyes of a perfectly holy God. So would you be innocent or guilty?

The answer is that you are going to be guilty. In fact, this is the whole point of the Ten Commandments (God’s law).

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.