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What happens to us when we die?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by ThisShouldMakeSense, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    I chose to put this under Biblical Debates, as i'd like to know what people who believe in the Bible believe about death? Do we go to heaven, hell, another place, are we reincarnated, do we cease to exist, do we await a ressurection, are we aware of things etc, etc? i'd be grateful if you could state the scriptures you base your beliefs on. Thanks
     
  2. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I am not sure the scriptures are very helpful on this one. too many contradictions.
    Christians believe we go to heaven with the various denominations believe in in various intermediate stages before a resurrection.
    A huge number of "Christians" belive in personal variations on this Basic teaching.

    My self ...I believe all life (not just mans) returns to god on death.
    I do not believe in the resurrection of the body. ( it makes no sense to me)
    I am open minded as to wether we are ever reincarnated.( I suspect it happens sometimes.)
    I believe that when we return to God we once again become part of Gods being and are no longer an individual. though our memories as our selves would reside with God.
    These are not Church of England beliefs, but I am told they are not unusual.

    Terry
    _________________________________
    Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
     
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  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I believe in the Bible, but I won't quote you scripture for my answer---hope that's ok:

    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

    Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face. This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called "heaven." Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

    All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.

    We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    I belive that after we die we will stand befor God, those deemed righteous will go to heaven , those deemed unrighteous will go to hell. Also that it is only through Christ that we can be classed as righteous because all of us have sinned, if we accept Christ as our saviour - that he paid for our sins on the cross then we can then stand befor God confident that our sin has been dealt with and therfore Gods Justice served without us going to hell.


    And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment
    Hebrews 9:27

    This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
    Romans 3:22-26

    Surely he took up our infirmities
    and carried our sorrows,
    yet we considered him stricken by God,
    smitten by him, and afflicted.
    But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
    We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to his own way;
    and the LORD has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
    isaiah 53:4-6

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
    1 Corinthians 6:9-11
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, TSMS.

    I believe that when we die, we (i.e. our spirits) go to the Spirit World spoken of in the scriptures. For the righteous, the Spirit World will be Paradise, a place of peace and rest. For the wicked, it will be Prison, a place of mental torment and anguish. Christ visited the Spirit World after His death but prior to His resurrection, and shared His gospel with those who had lived prior to His mortal misintry, enabling them to repent and be forgiven of their sins. Presumably, he also saw the man hanging next to Him on the cross. That must have been a unbelievably joyous experience for that man.

    While our spirits are in the Spirit World, we continue to be conscious entities. We continue to learn and grow spiritually. We can feel remorse for past actions and repent of them. Those who have not had the opportunity to hear of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes will have that chance in the Spirit World, because those who already know of Him are continuing to spread the good news among the rest.

    Eventually, it will be time for all to stand before God to be judged. This is known as the Final Judgment or Last Judgment, and won't happen until all have had the opportunity to know about the Savior and His atoning sacrifice. At this time, we will be either welcomed into heaven or condemned to hell. Some of the individuals who spirits were in Prison after they died will have spiritually crossed the line to Paradise somewhere along the line. If they have truly repented and accepted the Savior's sacrifice on their behalf, they, too, will be saved.

    I personally believe that the majority of all people will actually end up in heaven, although the most righteous and obedient will receive a greater reward or heavenly glory than the rest.

    Kathryn
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    i believe what the bible teaches,when i die i will go to dust with no thoughts what so ever
    For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, ECCLESIATES 9;5 But in Gods time there will be a resurrection John 5;28-29 also Acts 24;15 then we have the chance to live on the paradise earth that was Gods original purpose for mankind

    And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away..rev 21;4

    But there are new heavens (rulership )and a new earth (society of people)that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell...2;peter 3;13so even if i die if Jehovah remembers me then i am looking forward to living in the new earth with only the one goverment by God ...Daniel 2;44 and the best king ever sitting on the throne of this heavenly kingdom goverment will be Non other than Jesus christ himself Isaiah 9;6that is my hope

     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, Terry.

    Based upon what you have said, I wonder what you believe the purpose of life to be. Thanks.

    Kathryn
     
  8. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I put a thred up a while ago Is the purpose of life, a better World?
    That was my tentative view on the subject.

    Gods Purpose is of course unknown to us at this stage. But we shall find out when we return to him.

    In the mean time we must Love God and live our lives as Jesus taught us.
    Terry
    ______________________________
    Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    This may be an absurd question, Scott, but 'Hell' sounds like eternal loneliness - is that how you see it?
    "To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love ........" What does 'repenting' entail ? ( the dictionary says"to feel regret or contrition") - this sounds rather like a 'light' punishment - even if it is felt truly, by the sinner, it seems ridiculously little 'pennance' for the sins........:)
     
  10. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    According to Christian belief, the Bible speaks about the promise to those who are saved that upon death, their spirits are with the Lord in heaven (I Thessalonians 4:13-18) Those who are not saved through Christ spirits would be sent to a place of torment (Luke 16:19-23). We will all be judged by God (saved and unsaved) on the day of judgement, but those who are unsaved would be cast into the lake of fire for enternity (Revelations 20:11-15). :)
     
  11. tedicast

    tedicast New Member

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    I agree with Steve and Blueman, those who are saved through Christ will live with God in Heaven and those who are not will go to hell.
     
  12. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly... but it's about right... the despair that one must feel to know that they will never be happy again is a bit beyond loneliness.:eek:
    It's not supposed to be punishment.... if we repent only out of fear, well, I imagine that would work... but true regret is about love... a contrite heart feels sorrow for going against God who loves us.... maybe that's why the "punishment" seems light, it shows the love and mercy of the Lord... He does not want some grand mortification on our part, just sincere devotion.

    A story might help ;) ..
    A little boy is playing baseball in the Church parking lot. The Priest looks outside and says "Be careful... stay clear of the windows."... but the little boy does not listen, and, you guessed it.... smashes a ball through a window.
    He goes inside and meets the now angry Priest... "I'm sorry Father."..... "It's OK young man, you are forgiven.".... and the little boy collects his ball and goes home.

    The boy is forgiven... all is ok.... right? Not exactly.

    Later that night, the little boy thinks about what he did... he thinks about the warning from the Priest and how he ignored it and that caused him to break a Church window.... something nags on his heart.... he is forgiven, but he still feels awful... he still feels guilty for some reason. He collects up all of his money out of his "piggy bank" and rushes down to the Church.

    "What's this?" the Priest asks...... "I wanted to help pay for the broken window... I feel awful for damaging the Church."..... "No son, that's not necessary... you are forgiven"............"No Father, I insist... please take the money."... and he goes back home.

    Sitting in his bed, the little boy feels at peace..... his forgivness is not a matter of mere words.... and it's not a matter of satisfying a debt... it's something much more than that.... it's a conversion of heart.... to do what is right ... to do good and avoid evil.... it was not the money that gained this for the little boy... it was his interior change that true repentance is all about.

    Peace in Christ,
    Scott
     
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  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    That's lovely, Scott. I agree that God does not get any pleasure out of seeing us suffer. He wants us to be happy and He knows that if we're obedient, happiness will follow. Additionally, any "punishment" He may impose upon us is ultimately for our own good.

    I liked your story, too. It reminds me a little bit of one I posted on another thread. I'll have to remember where it was. I think you'd probably enjoy reading it.

    Kathryn
     
  14. sid

    sid New Member

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    I am new here, I have a question that has been bothering me. In a book that im reading it states that Hitler went to heaven because there was no hell. Is there something that im missing?
     
  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Hi sid,

    First of all, I'd like to welcome you to the forum;

    You say you are a Christian, I wonder what you believe in; do you believe in Heaven and hell ? It would also be interesting to know what book you have read... could you give us some details ?:)
     
  16. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    You asked what the BIBLE teaches:

    II Corinthians 5:6-8 Therefore we are alway confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    I Thessalonians 4 13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep(dead), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go before) them which are asleep . For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch-angel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rese first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    I corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethen, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is no in vain in the Lord.

    Hebrews 9:27 It is appointed for a man once to die and after this the judgement.

    For a non-christian:

    II Thessalonians 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that ovey not the gosel of our Lord Jesus Christ; Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Revelation20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Mathew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  17. jorylore

    jorylore Member

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    The Bible is clear on the subject. When we die w return to dust from which are first father was created. "For dust you are and to dust you will return." (Gen. 3:19) We are not conscience of anything. (Ec 9:5,10) This is not hard to believe when you look at the fact that when Jesus was on earth he likened death to sleep which is a state of unconsciousness. (Jo 11:11-14) You rest in the grave until the resurrection, some to heaven others to a cleansed earth. (Jo 5:29; Rev.14:1-6; Rev. 20:4-6; Ps 37:9-10; Ma 5:5) No one tortures in a fiery inferno for their sin. Such a belief is not only antibiblical but also cruel and unnecessary. The price we pay for sin is death- the absence of life, plain and simple. (Ro 6:23)
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    From:- http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_deat.htm

    Roman Catholic beliefs:
    The church teaches that when a person dies, their body starts its process of decomposition. Meanwhile, the soul leaves the body and is immediately evaluated in a Particular Judgment. 1This belief is partly based on Hebrews 9:27: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." (KJV). ​

    There are three possible destinations immediately after the judgment:​
    [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Heaven: Those whose "love for God has been perfected in this life" have their bodies "glorified" and taken immediately to their eternal reward in Heaven. Perhaps the Virgin Mary, the Apostles, the saints and a some others will qualify for this path.


    [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Hell: If they have committed a mortal sin which has not been forgiven, or have rejected God, then they are taken immediately to Hell where they will be tortured forever without any hope of relief or mercy.[/font]
    [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Purgatory: If the person dies in a state of grace, but loves God "imperfectly," then their souls immediately enter Purgatory. Here, they suffer for a time in order to cleanse themselves of their accumulated imperfections, venial sins and faults. Any mortal sins that they have committed, and for which they have been forgiven in the Sacrament of Penance, may have some residual temporal punishment still remaining; this has to be discharged as well.


    The inhabitants in Purgatory are systematically tortured with fire. The dead remain in purgatory until they have become sufficiently purified to enter heaven. However, if their friends and family offer Masses, prayers and other acts of piety and devotion, then their stay in Purgatory will be shortened. Purgatory is very similar to Hell; the main difference is that one will eventually be released from the torture.
    [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Although most Catholic believers have regarded Heaven, Hell and Purgatory as actual places, the church's teaching is that they are both a place and a state of existence.
    Later, when Jesus returns to earth in the "second coming", he will conduct the General Judgment (a.k.a. Final Judgment):

    [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Those who have previously died have already faced the Particular Judgment; that decision will continue in force. Those in Heaven or Hell will continue to spend eternity there. However, those who are in Purgatory at the time of Jesus' second coming will be released and moved to heaven immediately. At the second coming, the bodies of the dead will be reconstituted; this produces a bodily resurrection. At that time, they will be permanently reunited with their souls. This second judgment is needed so that the entire human race can learn about every person's life and comprehend the "justice, wisdom, and mercy of God."[/font]
    [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]All people who are alive on earth at the time of the second coming will be assembled together (Matthew 25:31-32). "Those who have rejected the Lord in this life, who have sinned mortally, who have no remorse for sin and do not seek forgiveness, will have condemned themselves to hell for all eternity." The others will go either to Purgatory or Heaven, depending upon the perfection of their love for God. The same evaluation criteria will be used in the General Judgment as for the Particular Judgment.


    [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Every "deliberate thought, word, deed and omission" of every individual that has ever lived, would be reviewed at the Final Judgment. The only exception would be thoughts and acts of Jesus of Nazareth, who lived without sin. This would presumably be a very time consuming process. It would be necessary to include the life histories of each of the billions of humans that have lived on earth for the past many hundreds of thousands of years that the human race has been in existence.:)

    [/font]
     
  19. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    What about the rich man and Lazarus? The rich man is described as being in torment in the flames and wishes for Lazarus to dip his finger in water to cool his tongue, then want him to warn his five brothers of this terrible place. And Jesus called him a CERTAIN rich man, and calle Lazarus by his name, so its not just a story, it illustrates the truth of eternal suffering. Jesus warned of Hell more than he spoke of Heaven and always called it everlasting, eternal punishment. Also, He being infinite suffered a finite amount of time to pay for our sins, if we try to pay for them, being finite beings, we must suffer an infinite amount of time. Hell is forever, its sad, but its the truth. Jesus also says it will be worse for some than for others, Mathew 10:15, 11:24, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12. It is also a place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched, and a lake of fire. Note the antichrist and false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire, and a thousand years later Satan was, and they were still there, see the end of revelation for that one. God is Love, but he is also JUST. Very few bible theologians would agree with you that you just cease to exist, that is not at all what the Bilbe says.
     
  20. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Instead of going by what "the church" teaches, why not just stick with the Holy Bible and nothing else?
     
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