What happened to the Vedic religion and what caused it to change?

[arcanum]

Does anyone have any insight on what caused the change from the sacrificial, very ritualistic orientated religion of the Vedas, that gave way to later movements such as Buddhism, Jainism, and the Hinduism of the Upanishads and Yoga Sutras? I ask because it seemed like something major happened, a cultural big bang of sorts, to cause the abandonment of the Ur religion of the Vedas and the Vedic gods, to the more philosophical, introspective, spiritually oriented, and peaceful religious orientations that formed upon it's collapse. New gods were introduced, old gods receded, new ideas and practices, a whole new ethos took the place of the older Vedic religion. What happened to cause such a major shift, can we even know at this point? Was it simply a revolt against the elite Brahmin class or did it go much deeper than that? Thanks in advance for any input on this question.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vedic religion is hale and hearty and frolicking, albeit as part of Hinduism, i.e., the mix of indigenous religions. One more was added. The rituals are still faithfully conducted although the animal sacrifice part has been abandoned. Aryan Gods and Goddesses merged with indigenous Gods and Godddesses. Vishnu merged with Rama, Krishna and at a later time with Buddha. Rudra merged with Shiva. Saraswati merged with Mother Goddess Durga and became MahaSarswati. None of the Vedas and Upanishads have been forgotten. They are considered the first scriptures. The indigenous picked up Sanskrit. Millions of people study Vedas. There are Sanskrit universities. No collapse, surely change. Everything OK.
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...ies_in_India&usg=AOvVaw2hPyGnE49pLZDQ1kfyU6Lf
(Sorry, can't reach Wikipedia. Perhaps you can - Sanskrit universities in India)
Top Sanskrit(Arts) Colleges In India - 2020 Rankings, Fees, Placements - Collegedunia

 

[GoodbyeDave]

It certainly wasn't a big bang — it took centuries for new approaches to evolve.

In ancient times, the Christian author Clement of Alexandria distinguished two types of India thinkers: the Brakhmanai (followers of the Brahmins) and the Sarmanai (Sanskrit Śramaṇa "striving", asceticism). The latter included the Jains and Buddhists, but also "unorthodox" Hindus and introduced belief in reincarnation, which is absent from the Vedas.

In what we would call the Middle Ages, the devotional texts called Puranas were written and proved very influential on main-stream belief and practice. Oon the other hand, interpretation of mystical experience led to themonist Advaita philosophy, which enables Aupmanyav to simultaneously call himself a Hindu and an atheist.

The Śrauta tradition maintains Vedic practice and is carried on in a few areas. The more common Shakta tradition, focused on the Goddess, still practices animal sacrifice.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Excellent write-up, David. The Shrauta tradition (of the Shrutis, i.e., Vedas) may be followed in some families / regions more strictly but no Hindu ritual / ceremony is complete without remembering the Vedic Gods Indra, Varuna (Ouranos), Surya (Mithra), Dyauh (Zeus), Prithivi (Hera), Brihaspati (Brahman), Vac (Saraswati), Soma (in today's context, the Moon God), etc.

1: Om, May there be Peace in Heaven, May there be Peace in the Sky,
2: May there be Peace in the Earth, May there be Peace in the Water, May there be Peace in the Plants,
3: May there be Peace in the Trees, May there be Peace in the Gods in the various Worlds, May there be Peace in Brahman,
4: May there be Peace in All, May there be Peace Indeed within Peace, Giving Me the Peace which Grows within Me,
5: Om, Peace, Peace, Peace.

"Om Sham No Mitrah Sham Varunnah |
Sham No Bhavatv-Aryamaa |
Sham No Indro Brhaspatih |
Sham No Vissnnur-Urukramah |

1: Om, May Mitra be Propitious with Us, May Varuna be Propitious with Us,
2: May the Honourable Aryama be Propitious with Us,
3: May Indra and Brihaspati be Propitious with Us,
4: May Vishnu with Long Strides be Propitious with Us."
Shanti Mantras from Upanishad !

 

[ajay0]

Many practices of present day Hinduism like the caste system, idol worship were not part of the vedic religion.

These were additions at later times.

The monotheistic Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj, which are based on the Vedas, reject casteism and idolatry as unvedic.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also a modern sect which is monotheistic and emphasizes fraternity amongst all human beings regardless of caste, creed, religion, race and nationality. They consider the nonanthropomorphic Shivalingam as representing God as an incorporeal point of light.

 

[arcanum]

Thanks for the responses guys, the reason for my question was promoted by an ebook by a professor which is free to read, that claims the the influence of the Thomasian Christians was in large part responsible for this change in the Indian religious orientation. According to tradition the disciple Thomas went to India and started his version of Christianity, which in turn made an impact on religious and philosophical orientation of India. Controversial? Yes of course it is, and I'm not saying I believe it but this guy does make a compelling case and it's sourced fairly well. Being a bit of a fan of the Yoga Sutras and the Upanishads, I have wondered how that change from the Vedic religion and these later traditions came about. Anyways I'll leave a link for those interested, and any feedback from it would be appreciated.
Preface

 

[arcanum]

I didn't realize but the link was only a rough draft and the author, Prof. M.M. Ninan, went on to publish a book on it called The Emergence Of Hinduism from Christianity. As expected the reviewers on Amazon were far from kind, there weren't many but none of them were verified purchases so they probably just read the title and decided to leave some poo lol. I left a link to read the free version, so if the title doesn't put you off give it a look over, at least read the preface. He does seem to know his material fairly well, but I'm not sure he can clinch his case and win over many on this premise. It is an interesting read though and worth at least perusing.

 

[Vinayaka]

M.M. Ninan has no clue whatsoever about Hinduism. Serious Hindu scholars won't even look at his stuff, it's so absurdly off. They just laugh and roll their eyes.

But sure, go ahead.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I didn't realize but the link was only a rough draft and the author, Prof. M.M. Ninan, went on to publish a book on it called The Emergence Of Hinduism from Christianity.

This is foolish Christian evangelism.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Does anyone have any insight on what caused the change from the sacrificial, very ritualistic orientated religion of the Vedas, that gave way to later movements such as Buddhism, Jainism, and the Hinduism of the Upanishads and Yoga Sutras? I ask because it seemed like something major happened, a cultural big bang of sorts, to cause the abandonment of the Ur religion of the Vedas and the Vedic gods, to the more philosophical, introspective, spiritually oriented, and peaceful religious orientations that formed upon it's collapse. New gods were introduced, old gods receded, new ideas and practices, a whole new ethos took the place of the older Vedic religion. What happened to cause such a major shift, can we even know at this point? Was it simply a revolt against the elite Brahmin class or did it go much deeper than that? Thanks in advance for any input on this question.

Granted I am not a follower of Hinduism, but from what I understand of it, as new writings were added to the old scriptures, the religion gradually evolved. When this happened, some new ideas got taken to logical extremes while others got rejected. That sort of thing creates schisms or splits, and new faiths emerge. Another major sticking point is the caste system. Many of these other religions wanted no part of such a system, so their faith was effectively an opt out, even if there were common points in other ways.

 

[arcanum]

M.M. Ninan has no clue whatsoever about Hinduism. Serious Hindu scholars won't even look at his stuff, it's so absurdly off. They just laugh and roll their eyes.

But sure, go ahead.

Yeah it probably is way off the mark, which is why I wanted to get some feedback from people who know about and have some insights on this topic. So moving on from this persons thesis, I'm still hoping someone could shed some light on this. What could have possibly lead to this change? Was there a religious revolution of sorts, a catalyst, or was it more of a slow and organic process? Also, any good book recommendations that explore this area? Thanks

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah it probably is way off the mark, which is why I wanted to get some feedback from people who know about and have some insights on this topic. So moving on from this persons thesis, I'm still hoping someone could shed some light on this. What could have possibly lead to this change? Was there a religious revolution of sorts, a catalyst, or was it more of a slow and organic process? Also, any good book recommendations that explore this area? Thanks

I think it was a slow organic process. You have to remember two things ... one is the time involved, 3000 years plus, and the other is the diversity of the subcontinent. many scholars underestimate these two things. While the Vedic faith may have been predominant in the North, it wasn't in the South. Tamil was key, and the scriptures were predominantly Tamil. Tirumular, circa 200 years BC, spoke of Tamil and Sanskrit being the 2 eyes.

You could try the first and subsequent videos on 'The History of Hindu India' by Himalayan Academy. It's at least from a Hindu perspective.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thanks for the responses guys, the reason for my question was promoted by an ebook by a professor which is free to read, that claims the the influence of the Thomasian Christians was in large part responsible for this change in the Indian religious orientation. According to tradition the disciple Thomas went to India and started his version of Christianity, which in turn made an impact on religious and philosophical orientation of India. Controversial? Yes of course it is, and I'm not saying I believe it but this guy does make a compelling case and it's sourced fairly well. Being a bit of a fan of the Yoga Sutras and the Upanishads, I have wondered how that change from the Vedic religion and these later traditions came about. Anyways I'll leave a link for those interested, and any feedback from it would be appreciated.
Preface

Maybe I'm being ignorant. I'm certainly not Hindu. But it's my understanding that these changes occurred when the Aryans invaded and conquered, and the two religions melded together.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What happened to cause such a major shift, can we even know at this point? Was it simply a revolt against the elite Brahmin class or did it go much deeper than that? Thanks in advance for any input on this question.

IMHO, what happened was much simpler. It was only a question of livelihood. The indigenous people would not accept the new Gods and animal sacrifices (as indicated by rise of Jainism, Buddhism, Ajivakas, Charvaks, etc.). So the Aryan brahmins modified their practices, accepted the indigenous Gods and Goddesses as the main Gods and Goddesses, though the Aryan Gods continued to be worshiped as secondary Gods and are still worshiped.