What happened to the Christian Sabbath?

[roger1440]

You do realise that I accept the entirety of the New Testament, not just the Gospels. The Epistle to the Romans is a good place to start. It's quite explicit, the Law has no power to save, only faith in Christ can.

You would think if the Mosaic Law was obsolete Jesus would have mentioned it. I guess he just forgot. Yeah, that it

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The Catholic catechism states that
"On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body."
This is hardly the same as "strict observance". I happen to be reading a biography of King Louis XVI of France. Now he was one of the more devout of French kings, but he had a cabinet meeting every Sunday afternoon and no-one seems to have complained.

 

[Shaul]

The Catholic catechism states that
"On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body."
This is hardly the same as "strict observance". I happen to be reading a biography of King Louis XVI of France. Now he was one of the more devout of French kings, but he had a cabinet meeting every Sunday afternoon and no-one seems to have complained.

You quoted the "in brief" note. The fuller body states,
"2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.123 Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health."

 

[Brickjectivity]

Blue laws still exist forbidding the sale of alcohol. I think in general economic necessity trumped religious sentiment. If you need to work on Sunday to eat, you work.

I used to live in Virginia Beach, VA. We had blue laws on Sunday. On Sunday you could not purchase alcohol, and there were restrictions about what businesses could stay open. I didn't care, because on Sunday I just went to church and my family didn't buy alcohol.

 

[Akivah]

I am NOT asking why Chrsitians identify their Sabbath as Sunday and not Saturday. That is a separate topic. What I would like to ask is why Christians are abandoning their Sabbath? What are the causes?

IMO, Christians have abandoned all religious duties as mandated in Torah because their religion is based solely on belief, not actions. I think they have a saying that "works are as rags".

 

[Parsimony]

There was a time, not too long ago, when Christians kept a Sabbath. As recently as a generation ago there was a strong Christian Sabbath. Then it would have been scandalous for a Christian to work on their Sabbath. Indeed in many nominally Christian countries, such as the U.S., there were blue laws which enforced their Sabbath. These have gone away.

Nowadays Christians treat their Sabbath as a day for all manner of frivolity. Church attendance drops as time goes on. The Christian Sabbath becomes more and more secularized.

Christians purport to follow their scriptures. Even the most cursory reading of their Old Testament shows that keeping the Sabbath is extremely important. Yet I have even encountered some Christians now that say keeping the Sabbath was abolished. Such a position and teaching would have been unthinkable in the near past.

I am NOT asking why Chrsitians identify their Sabbath as Sunday and not Saturday. That is a separate topic. What I would like to ask is why Christians are abandoning their Sabbath? What are the causes?

I still keep it.

 

[metis]

IMO, Christians have abandoned all religious duties as mandated in Torah because their religion is based solely on belief, not actions. I think they have a saying that "works are as rags".

That's more found in the Protestant denominations, not the RCC, Orthodox, Coptic, nor Anglican traditions.

 

[roger1440]

IMO, Christians have abandoned all religious duties as mandated in Torah because their religion is based solely on belief, not actions. I think they have a saying that "works are as rags".

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?Can such faith save them?
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.
(James 2:14-19)

 

[ZooGirl02]

The Catholic Church, which has its origins in the 1st Century with Jesus Christ and the 12 disciples, began worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday which was the Jewish Sabbath. This was partly in order to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ which occurred on a Sunday. You can read more about why they celebrated on Sunday instead of Saturday here.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/from-sabbath-to-sunday

 

[Glaurung]

I just want to make sure I understand you. A good place to start is Romans written by a guy who never met Jesus, who knew nothing about Jesus's life or what Jesus taught, rather then Jesus himself.

If you're going to reject the bulk of the New Testament while calling yourself a Christian, then (considering the heterodoxy of your position) you have no right to be demanding justification from those who don't.

You would think if the Mosaic Law was obsolete Jesus would have mentioned it. I guess he just forgot. Yeah, that it

Nor do you have the right to give me snark. You're the one making the claim here, that I should ignore (roundabouts?) two-thirds of the New Testament. Based on what, your dislike of it?

You don't get to decide your own canon then deride those who disagree with you.

 

[roger1440]

If you're going to reject the bulk of the New Testament while calling yourself a Christian, then (considering the heterodoxy of your position) you have no right to be demanding justification from those who don't.


Nor do you have the right to give me snark. You're the one making the claim here, that I should ignore (roundabouts?) two-thirds of the New Testament. Based on what, your dislike of it?

You don't get to decide your own canon then deride those who disagree with you.

Immediately after reading your reply I thought of this song.

 

[Glaurung]

Immediately after reading your reply I thought of this song.

What possible discussion could we have? You're basically demanding that I play a game where you get to decide the rules at whim.

Oh and BTW, Paul did not only know Jesus' disciples such as Peter, he also knew James the Just. Paul has also been Scripture since we've even had a New Testament at all. (They're even older than the Gospels). But the Epistles don't count because....

Oh, because you just say so.

 

[Deeje]

The "Sabbath" is a day of the week that runs from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown and, as I previously mentioned, "the Lord's Day" replaced it as the day of observance during the 2nd century.

Where is it written that God ever changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?....then tell me where it says the Lord's Day is Sunday....and then tell me where Christians were ever commanded to observe a Jewish Sabbath or indeed any Sabbath. I can't find any of that in the Bible.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Where is it written that God ever changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?....then tell me where it says the Lord's Day is Sunday....and then tell me where Christians were ever commanded to observe a Jewish Sabbath or indeed any Sabbath. I can't find any of that in the Bible.

It is nowhere written that God changed the seventh day of the week to the first day. That would be Mathematically impossible! I think what Metis is saying is historically correct that Christians did meet on the first day of the week on a regular basis and don't think he's suggesting that God commanded Christians to observe Sabbaths. I don't know how you got that impression.

 

[metis]

Where is it written that God ever changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?....then tell me where it says the Lord's Day is Sunday....and then tell me where Christians were ever commanded to observe a Jewish Sabbath or indeed any Sabbath. I can't find any of that in the Bible.

Maybe check this out: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv...Sabbath&restrict=New+Testament&size=First+100

The change from Saturday to "the Lord's Day" occurred after the Christian scriptures were written, and it appears to have been a gradual transition that occurred in the 2nd century. Since the early church became increasingly gentile, and since the early church gradually walked away from the adherence to the 613 Commandments as found in Torah, the church made the decision to move the main Christian observance from Shabbat to the day they observed the "Agape Meal", which was on Sunday, the day that they believe Jesus was resurrected.

Now, if you believe you're still under the Law, then do you keep kosher, fully observe the Laws that govern Shabbat, etc.? If you don't believe you're under the full Law, then do you pick & choose which you prefer to follow, or do you fully observe all 613 of them?