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What happened to the Christian Sabbath?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
That was never denied. Ceremonial law refers to those commandments which deal with the means and conditions of worship which were given as part of the Old Covenant. Christianity claims that the Old Covenant (Judaism) is obsolete with the advent of Christ. Therefore Jewish worship is no longer valid, hence neither are the laws which regulate it. Circumcision is no longer a condition of ritual cleanliness, neither is kosher, nor is there a requirement for animal sacrifice (since Christ is the sacrifice). Most importantly, the ethnic nature of the Judaism was abolished as the New Covenant is intended to open access to God for all. (Indeed, Christ is the only means to God).

The laws which strictly deal with morality are still binding. In other words, adultery is still a sin even though the requirement to stone said adulterer is gone.


Of course there's no doubt that Jewish Christians did not completely abandon their previous practices immediately. But that means very little in regards to the necessity of those practices for the Christian. Those who insisted that Christians practice Judaism were contradicted even in the New Testament.
The Law is the Law as it applies to Jews, and any division of the Law into different components is strictly a man-made division. For gentiles, there's no requirement for them to follow the Law but there is for Jews. Matter of fact, the Tanakh states that any "prophet" who teaches that the Law not need be observed in its entirety is a "false prophet".

Secondly, the concept that only those who believe in Jesus in order to be "saved" is logically flawed, especially in light of what is actually found in the Torah. It's judgmentalism as its worse, and many churches have backed off on such a claim. Judgmentalism has caused tremendous amounts of harm historically.

Thirdly, why would you claim that adultery is still valid but not keeping kosher or observing the Sabbath? What criterion are you using to pick & choose which Laws are still valid and which aren't (please do not use the word "ceremonial" in response as no such division actually exists).

Finally, I am very aware of what the N.T. says, and a particular denomination's teachings is for them to decide, not mine, but I just wanted to point out some things. I really have no interest in debating these points, so...

Take care.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Are you saying that Christ ascended on the Sunday after his death? (Acts 1:1-11) And this is why the church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?
The "Sabbath" is a day of the week that runs from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown and, as I previously mentioned, "the Lord's Day" replaced it as the day of observance during the 2nd century.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
There was a time, not too long ago, when Christians kept a Sabbath. As recently as a generation ago there was a strong Christian Sabbath. Then it would have been scandalous for a Christian to work on their Sabbath.

Christians purport to follow their scriptures. Even the most cursory reading of their Old Testament shows that keeping the Sabbath is extremely important. Yet I have even encountered some Christians now that say keeping the Sabbath was abolished. Such a position and teaching would have been unthinkable in the near past.

The term "sabbath" has only been used for the Lord's Day in English, and mostly in radical Protestantism. Thus in Spanish, sabado means "Saturday". The use of "sabbath" is much more common in the USA than in the UK.

That use of "sabbath" can easily mislead you into thinking that the Lord's Day is a continuation of the Jewish sabbath, but just shifted. It's not. It's a day for worship, after which you do what you want. The idea that it should be kept like the Jewish Sabbath is characteristic of radical Protestantism, which tends to Judaise. It only became common in England in the 19th century and has never been normal on the Continent.

Christians naturally consider the Old Testament as being corrected by the New. Peter and Paul rejected the ritual requirement of the Jews: circumcision, dietary law, and the Sabbath. The Council of Jerusalem retained only the "laws of Noah". In his letter to the Galatian church, Paul wrote "Before faith came, we were kept under the Law ... our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ ... But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The term "sabbath" has only been used for the Lord's Day in English, and mostly in radical Protestantism. Thus in Spanish, sabado means "Saturday". The use of "sabbath" is much more common in the USA than in the UK.

That use of "sabbath" can easily mislead you into thinking that the Lord's Day is a continuation of the Jewish sabbath, but just shifted. It's not. It's a day for worship, after which you do what you want. The idea that it should be kept like the Jewish Sabbath is characteristic of radical Protestantism, which tends to Judaise. It only became common in England in the 19th century and has never been normal on the Continent.

Christians naturally consider the Old Testament as being corrected by the New. Peter and Paul rejected the ritual requirement of the Jews: circumcision, dietary law, and the Sabbath. The Council of Jerusalem retained only the "laws of Noah". In his letter to the Galatian church, Paul wrote "Before faith came, we were kept under the Law ... our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ ... But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
It is not a Protestant invention. According to the catechism of the Catholic Church its adherents are to refrain from work on the Christian Sabbath.

I have heard Protestants called many things excepting being Judaizers. They are about as far from that as possible, to the point on antinomianism.
 
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Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I specifically wrote that I did NOT want to discuss why, how and whether Christians elected to observe their Sabbath on a particular day, that is nominally Sunday as opposed to Saturday. (Yes, mindful that some Christians such as Seventh Day Adventists observe it on Saturday) Apparently that simple request could not be honored.

Kindly don't hijack this thread. Those that want to discuss why Christians observe Sunday instead of Saturday as their Sabbath kindly take that discussion elsewhere such as starting a separate thread about that.

THIS thread was started to discuss why Christians do not observe their Sabbath as they have in the past.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Christians are part of a new creation, hence the old creation no longer matters. For Christians, in other words, the old world is gone now, not because of a second flood but because of a judgment by fire. Everything in the world is gone for a Christian, except for the new creation. The obvious fact is that the NT declares things that many consider to be unreal. "The kingdom of God has come" etc. Christianity operates on the predicate that Elijah has come, that Jubilee is here, that we are in the real Sabbath now. I realize this is not apparent to your eyes physically, however this is what *all* and I mean *all* of the NT authors stipulate. In other words there is no need for Christians to remember the Sabbath since the 'Real' Sabbath has arrived already in a sense -- though not in a physical sense. We are in the 'Last days'. We have been in the 'Last days' for 2000 years now.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Christians are part of a new creation, hence the old creation no longer matters. For Christians, in other words, the old world is gone now, not because of a second flood but because of a judgment by fire. Everything in the world is gone for a Christian, except for the new creation. The obvious fact is that the NT declares things that many consider to be unreal. "The kingdom of God has come" etc. Christianity operates on the predicate that Elijah has come, that Jubilee is here, that we are in the real Sabbath now. I realize this is not apparent to your eyes physically, however this is what *all* and I mean *all* of the NT authors stipulate. In other words there is no need for Christians to remember the Sabbath since the 'Real' Sabbath has arrived already in a sense -- though not in a physical sense. We are in the 'Last days'. We have been in the 'Last days' for 2000 years now.
You position is at variance with the vast majority of Christiandom who identify a particular day of the week as a Sabbath. For example the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says that Sunday is a Sabbath upon which believers are to refrain from work and attend Mass. See here, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm
Are a billion Catholics wrong to keep a day of the week as a Sabbath but you are right that there is no need to remember the Sabbath?
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
For example the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says that Sunday is a Sabbath upon which believers are to refrain from work and attend Mass. See here, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm
Are a billion Catholics wrong to keep a day of the week as a Sabbath but you are right that there is no need to remember the Sabbath?

How can you say that? The very document you cite says -
"2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath."
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
You position is at variance with the vast majority of Christiandom who identify a particular day of the week as a Sabbath. For example the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says that Sunday is a Sabbath upon which believers are to refrain from work and attend Mass. See here, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm
Are a billion Catholics wrong to keep a day of the week as a Sabbath but you are right that there is no need to remember the Sabbath?
I'm a Liberal Christian -- leaning towards Quakerism. I do not wish to advise you on what you ought to do. I have told you all the NT authors claim or assume that we are in a new age, a new world with everything different. Many things which Jews believe must happen to signal a renewal, the NT writers claim have happened already and that renewal is now. It doesn't matter to me if you accept what they say or not. They say something called the 'True Sabbath Rest' has come and the old world has been destroyed. This explains why Christians don't keep the Sabbath, and I believe it answers your question. It doesn't have to make sense and is simply what they say, not advice from me to you or to Roman Catholics.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm a Liberal Christian -- leaning towards Quakerism. I do not wish to advise you on what you ought to do. I have told you all the NT authors claim or assume that we are in a new age, a new world with everything different. Many things which Jews believe must happen to signal a renewal, the NT writers claim have happened already and that renewal is now. It doesn't matter to me if you accept what they say or not. They say something called the 'True Sabbath Rest' has come and the old world has been destroyed. This explains why Christians don't keep the Sabbath, and I believe it answers your question. It doesn't have to make sense and is simply what they say, not advice from me to you or to Roman Catholics.
In other words, the Roman Catholic Church isn't following the NT according to you. Got it.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How can you say that? The very document you cite says -
"2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath."
Please note that I have tried to be clear in distinguishing between the Christian Sabbath and other Sabbaths. The portion you quoted is in agreement with that. The Catholic Church differentiates their day of observance from the Jewish Sabbath. That is what your quote is saying.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
There was a time, not too long ago, when Christians kept a Sabbath. As recently as a generation ago there was a strong Christian Sabbath. Then it would have been scandalous for a Christian to work on their Sabbath. Indeed in many nominally Christian countries, such as the U.S., there were blue laws which enforced their Sabbath. These have gone away.

Nowadays Christians treat their Sabbath as a day for all manner of frivolity. Church attendance drops as time goes on. The Christian Sabbath becomes more and more secularized.

Christians purport to follow their scriptures. Even the most cursory reading of their Old Testament shows that keeping the Sabbath is extremely important. Yet I have even encountered some Christians now that say keeping the Sabbath was abolished. Such a position and teaching would have been unthinkable in the near past.

I am NOT asking why Chrsitians identify their Sabbath as Sunday and not Saturday. That is a separate topic. What I would like to ask is why Christians are abandoning their Sabbath? What are the causes?

I haven't seen an answer to your question so far. You don't seem to be asking if the Sabbath is a valid day in Christianity or what should Christians do on the Sabbath. Rather, I think you're asking why general Christian interpretation on the subject has changed over the past 50 years. I agree that it has changed significantly.

There was a time when most Christians believed that the Sabbath Day is still required and people should not work. Many Christians don't interpret the Bible and history the way it was interpreted by Christians 50 years ago. I have to believe that this is part of an overall liberalization trend in society. It's also an easier interpretation which takes less effort to follow. I believe the Sabbath command to not work is still valid. It's one of the Ten Commandments, all of which are still valid today in Christianity IMO. We can debate the particulars of what we should or should not do on the Sabbath, and if there are exceptions, etc.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I haven't seen an answer to your question so far. You don't seem to be asking if the Sabbath is a valid day in Christianity or what should Christians do on the Sabbath. Rather, I think you're asking why general Christian interpretation on the subject has changed over the past 50 years. I agree that it has changed significantly.

There was a time when most Christians believed that the Sabbath Day is still required and people should not work. Many Christians don't interpret the Bible and history the way it was interpreted by Christians 50 years ago. I have to believe that this is part of an overall liberalization trend in society. It's also an easier interpretation which takes less effort to follow. I believe the Sabbath command to not work is still valid. It's one of the Ten Commandments, all of which are still valid today in Christianity IMO. We can debate the particulars of what we should or should not do on the Sabbath, and if there are exceptions, etc.
Thank you. You do indeed seem to understand what I was asking and answered.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
In other words, the Roman Catholic Church isn't following the NT according to you. Got it.
It is unclear to me whether or not Catholics ought to follow it, so maybe they should or maybe they shouldn't. The NT does not appear to be an instruction book on how to be a Christian or a Catholic either.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
It is not a Protestant invention. According to the catechism of the Catholic Church its adherents are to refrain from work on the Christian Sabbath.


Except that it doesn't use the word "Sabbath", if my memory is correct.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
There are several reasons and the answer will depend on the particular tradition to an extent. They include the following

The book of Hebrews refers to Jesus as a Sabbath.
The Sabbath is said to be the shadow of what is to come and Jesus is the one casting the shadow in Colossians
Sunday is more often referred to as 'The Lord's day'
Confessional reformed believers tend to keep the Sabbath more as you might be thinking.
Dispensational believers less so,

A good talk on the subject was at Wheaton College chapel a while ago.
 

roger1440

I do stuff
THIS thread was started to discuss why Christians do not observe their Sabbath as they have in the past.
The short answer is that there are more options available for people on Sunday to occupy there time. Plus many so called Christians borrow the name Christian.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
The Law is the Law as it applies to Jews, and any division of the Law into different components is strictly a man-made division. For gentiles, there's no requirement for them to follow the Law but there is for Jews. Matter of fact, the Tanakh states that any "prophet" who teaches that the Law not need be observed in its entirety is a "false prophet".
You're missing the point. I believe that there is only one means, and one means alone to God and that is though Christ. Judaism and all its laws and practices have no salvific value. What is required of a Jew in Judaism has no baring on what I believe will actually save his soul.

Secondly, the concept that only those who believe in Jesus in order to be "saved" is logically flawed, especially in light of what is actually found in the Torah. It's judgmentalism as its worse, and many churches have backed off on such a claim. Judgmentalism has caused tremendous amounts of harm historically.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus may be hard to accept, but there's nothing logically flawed about it. (And I don't care what "other" churches teach). You further misrepresent me if you think I believe that non-Christians are ipso facto damned. I think you know this.

Regardless, I don't judge the possible salvation (or repobation) non-Christians, it's all for God to determine. I worry about my own soul and what I will say to God when I stand before judgement.

Thirdly, why would you claim that adultery is still valid but not keeping kosher or observing the Sabbath? What criterion are you using to pick & choose which Laws are still valid and which aren't (please do not use the word "ceremonial" in response as no such division actually exists).
Because we are still expected to follow the divine and natural law. Both of which are distinct from the Law of Moses, which was intended for a particular people at a specific time. Now that Christ has redeemed us, the Law of Moses is no longer in effect. We are now under the Law of Christ.

Finally, I am very aware of what the N.T. says, and a particular denomination's teachings is for them to decide, not mine, but I just wanted to point out some things. I really have no interest in debating these points, so...

Take care.
I have no illusions that I'm going to change your views, but discussion is always fun.

And likewise.

I don't see anywhere in the Gospels that mention Jews are no longer under the Mosaic Law. Can you quote a verse or two?
You do realise that I accept the entirety of the New Testament, not just the Gospels. The Epistle to the Romans is a good place to start. It's quite explicit, the Law has no power to save, only faith in Christ can.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You're missing the point. I believe that there is only one means, and one means alone to God and that is though Christ. Judaism and all its laws and practices have no salvific value. What is required of a Jew in Judaism has no baring on what I believe will actually save his soul...
The issue that brought me into this discussion was your mischaracterization of the Law, especially when you used the word "ceremonial".

Secondly, let me recommend that you take a concordance and look up the word "forgive" as it applies to God forgiving, and I think you'll see that God does not just forgive Christians. BTW, only about 1/3 of the time that "forgive" is used in that context refers to Temple sacrifices, and it's made quite clear that God can and does forgive even without them.

And finally, I'm pleased that many Christian churches have realized their error in believing that only Christians can be "saved", and it's a shame that the others don't realize the lack of both logic and basic decency that the "my way or the highway" approach takes them. I grew up in one of those churches, and I left it for good, eventually joining a church that didn't teach such a self-serving, nonsensical doctrine. The idea that one is "saved" simply by believing in some sort of politically-correct belief about Jesus defies even what's found in the gospels, such as what's found in Matthew 25 with the Parable of the Sheep & Goats, plus it violates the tone of the Sermon On the Mount that insists on action, not just belief. And then there's Paul's statement about "faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is __".

Take care.
 

roger1440

I do stuff
You're missing the point. I believe that there is only one means, and one means alone to God and that is though Christ. Judaism and all its laws and practices have no salvific value. What is required of a Jew in Judaism has no baring on what I believe will actually save his soul.


Extra ecclesiam nulla salus may be hard to accept, but there's nothing logically flawed about it. (And I don't care what "other" churches teach). You further misrepresent me if you think I believe that non-Christians are ipso facto damned. I think you know this.

Regardless, I don't judge the possible salvation (or repobation) non-Christians, it's all for God to determine. I worry about my own soul and what I will say to God when I stand before judgement.


Because we are still expected to follow the divine and natural law. Both of which are distinct from the Law of Moses, which was intended for a particular people at a specific time. Now that Christ has redeemed us, the Law of Moses is no longer in effect. We are now under the Law of Christ.


I have no illusions that I'm going to change your views, but discussion is always fun.

And likewise.


You do realise that I accept the entirety of the New Testament, not just the Gospels. The Epistle to the Romans is a good place to start. It's quite explicit, the Law has no power to save, only faith in Christ can.
I just want to make sure I understand you. A good place to start is Romans written by a guy who never met Jesus, who knew nothing about Jesus's life or what Jesus taught, rather then Jesus himself.
 
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