1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What happened to Elijah according to Quran vs Bible?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    2,399
    Ratings:
    +546
    Religion:
    Islam
    There's nothing about it in the Quran.
    He's in very few verses and we don't know that much about him.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,387
    Ratings:
    +3,045
    Religion:
    undecided
    I have a great problem with the Baha'i interpretation of this and other things they say about the Book of Revelation. Another big one is that the "Three Woes" are prophecies about the coming of Muhammad, The Bab, and Baha'u'llah. The big plus they've got going is the 1260 days prophecy, which fits into the time when Islam officially started and the start of the Baha'i Faith by the announcement of the The Bab in I844. Other than that, a lot of "creative" interpretation to make Revelation fit into what the Baha'i Faith believes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,122
    Ratings:
    +7,153
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    According to our understanding, Jesus in his pre-human existence was the Archangel Michael and always served as his Father's spokesman. That is what the title "Logos" means. He spoke God's 'words'.....both in heaven and on earth.

    Sin created a barrier between God and man so Jesus became the mediator between them. We pray to God, only through Jesus. This rules out the trinity because if Jesus was God, we would have a barrier between us and him too. He is the only mediator.

    It is likely that Michael played a very important role in Israel's history before his birth as a human. This is why he knew the Israelites so well, having witnessed their whole history at his Father's side, and then firsthand being raised as a human among them. He roundly condemned the religious leaders and went in search of the sheep that had become "lost" due to their neglect.

    I think it's an amazing thing that God loves humankind so much that, not only did he send his beloved son to pay the ransom for our release from the Adamic curse, (Romans 5:12) but every single person who will guide and direct humans on the path of reconciliation in God's kingdom, have all lived in the flesh....even Jesus as High Priest. They will be compassionate and understanding rulers whilst they bring us back to God. The fact that they also need to be priests demonstrates that sin will be something that will take time to "undo". (Revelation 20:6)

    Because we are free willed beings, it will be our choice to bring our lives into harmony with God's standards and to naturally want to co-operate with others in bringing about the paradise conditions that Adam and his wife lost for themselves and their children. Christ-like love will dominate our thinking.

    I believe that we are on the brink of great change regarding man's rulership. God's Kingdom will "come" in a way that humans are not expecting. We don't know when the tribulation will begin, but we know that it will be rough (Matthew 24:21) and that those who are not on board the spiritual "ark" will have no safe place to hide. (Matthew 24:37-39)

    These are momentous times my friend.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,692
    Ratings:
    +184
    The children of God pray to "Our Father" directly (Matthew 6:9). Mediation would be due to some kind of problem. Do you have a problem with God? If you have a problem with your neighbor, I suggest that you try and fix it first with your neighbor (Matthew 5:23-24). I think the term "Logos" means words, and that term was originally used instead of the term commandments (Deuteronomy 4:13) as can be shown in a referenced bible. The Father spoke through the prophets by way of the Spirit of Revelation/Spirit of God. Yeshua/Joshua, the high priest, came to fulfill the Word of God (Matthew 5:17), and apparently, there is a ways to go. "Michael" was "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13). Who was the "man dressed in linen" (Daniel 10:4) whom "Michael" helped (Daniel 10:13)?
     
  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,692
    Ratings:
    +184
    There is no Adamic curse. The sins of the fathers only reach 3 to 4 generations of those who hate me (Deuteronomy 5:9).

    KJ21
    Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,692
    Ratings:
    +184
    We have been in the "tribulation" a long time (Matthew 24:5-12) , such as wars, earthquakes, falling away, false prophets, lawlessness. What is harder to gauge (Matthew 24:33) is the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21). Those with the "mark of the beast" should not depend on any protection (Revelation 14:10).
     
  7. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,844
    Ratings:
    +6,932
    Religion:
    Christian
    Thank you
     
  8. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,844
    Ratings:
    +6,932
    Religion:
    Christian
    Thank you for your very informative answer to my question Deeje.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,973
    Ratings:
    +2,199
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    All agree, some of the verses of Quran are allusions. They refer to someone but not explicitly with their names. Quran says Jews killed the Messenger who performed the miracle of the Fire from sky to burn the Sacrifice. Which Jewish Prophet performed this miracle? Elijah, as described in Bible.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,878
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the curse is real but only for the Adamic race of which I only share a small portion of DNA.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,878
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that is actually misinformation.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,878
    Ratings:
    +1,246
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe in Rev 13 the antiChrist is said to "make fire come down from heaven."
     
  13. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,973
    Ratings:
    +2,199
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Ok, that is not the same as bringing fire to burn the sacrifice. Is it?
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,692
    Ratings:
    +184
    As Constantine is the beast with two horns like a lamb (Revelation 13:11), and Constantinople, through the use of fire from heaven, with the use of phosphorus, that fire was used to burn the enemy ships. Possibly, you are confusing your ambiguous "antichrist" with the "another" "beast".
     
  15. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +1,188
    Religion:
    seeking
    Why would the Bible say in John 3:13 that no man has ascended into Heaven? Maybe your understanding is a little off?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,844
    Ratings:
    +6,932
    Religion:
    Christian
    Good point. Maybe there is more to the story.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +1,188
    Religion:
    seeking
    Yes there is. The Bible alls the air above the earth "heaven" but that is not the Heaven where God lives. Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind. Whirlwinds occur in the air not in God's Heaven. So Elijah was simply lifted up by a whirlwind and carried away. His body was never found but he was not in God's Heaven. He was taken up in the air and carried some distance away.
     
  18. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,844
    Ratings:
    +6,932
    Religion:
    Christian
    Interesting take on the subject. Do you know any specific scripture that says that is what happened?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    3,686
    Ratings:
    +1,188
    Religion:
    seeking
    Start with Mathew 6:26 Some translations say birds of the air and other translations say birds of heaven. This shows that heaven can refer to the air around the earth. And whirlwinds occur in the air. They do not go to wherever God's heaven is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...