What Gospel Scene Actually Happened, And How Would We Know?

[dogsgod]

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What Gospel scene actually happened and how would we know?[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]




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[Oberon]

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What Gospel scene actually happened and how would we know?


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A very complicated question, crossing many academic disciplines. On one extreme in scholarship, history is completely worthless, and beyond that for some "truth," "meaning," "science," and so forth are all just components used by individuals as part of a cultural schema to view the world. How could we know? What justifies knowing? How can you know you exist? How can you know you didn't wake up when the world was created four seconds ago with you and all your memories in it? Certain knowledge exists only by definition.

Analyzing the gospels is no different than any other historical texts. You employ many tried and true methodologies that scholars have employed over the centures (and continue to refine) to determine which reading of the evidince is the best (i.e. given that we can't re-create history in a lab, historians are more akin to detectives after the crime, trying to put together all the peaces in the way that best explains the evidence."

 

[EverChanging]

A very complicated question, crossing many academic disciplines. On one extreme in scholarship, history is completely worthless, and beyond that for some "truth," "meaning," "science," and so forth are all just components used by individuals as part of a cultural schema to view the world. How could we know? What justifies knowing? How can you know you exist? How can you know you didn't wake up when the world was created four seconds ago with you and all your memories in it? Certain knowledge exists only by definition.

Analyzing the gospels is no different than any other historical texts. You employ many tried and true methodologies that scholars have employed over the centures (and continue to refine) to determine which reading of the evidince is the best (i.e. given that we can't re-create history in a lab, historians are more akin to detectives after the crime, trying to put together all the peaces in the way that best explains the evidence."

I totally agree.

Historically, one can look for evidence and try to fish out history from these accounts, and that is helpful, but only looking at it literally and historically misses the mythological element. It is also possible to look for metaphor in these stories and lend a certain validity to them all. The differences in the accounts can provide different slants on the theology or perspectives of the various authors and sources these accounts are compiled from. Examine the differences. Also look for an underlying theme in all of the stories -- look at both similarities and differences.

This approach can more or less be applied to other myths, too -- pagan myths, modern and ancient, stories about Krishna, Buddha, various gods, goddesses, saints and heros. Some stories may contain more history than others, others more myth.

Metaphorically exploring mythology can altar one's view of the universe as much as examining it historically. The two approaches are complimentary.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I doubt any "scenes" were recorded at the time they happened, and certainly are unlikely to be accurate in "detail.

I expect some to have been an amalgam of several events, perhaps only having value in their general meaning.

 

[Kathryn]

The bible contains history but it is not a history book - it is a book of spiritual teachings. Furthermore, each book of the bible is different and has a different literary style. When reading a particular book or passage, in order to understand the fullest meaning, you have to read it in context, taking into account the author, the literary style, the audience, the original language and translation, and the historical setting.

Only then can we really grasp the most accurate meaning of the text. Thankfully, we don't have to be biblical scholars in order to apply decent exegesis to our study of the bible. There are tons of good resources literally at our fingertips to help us with this, and I have found that when I really apply the basics of serious study habits to my bible reading, I am nearly always profoundly impacted by what I discover.

 

[sandandfoam]

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What Gospel scene actually happened and how would we know?




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I'm living in the present.
Jesus is alive in me now. The detail of what happened 2000 odd years ago is incidental to the living Jesus in my mind.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

something something something DARK SIDE

somthing something something COMPLETE

 

[dogsgod]

OK, so what do we know? What can we point to within the gospels and say, that happened and this is how we know?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'd say the bits that are more realistic and not as mythical are more likely to have happened.

 

[dogsgod]

I'd say the bits that are more realistic and not as mythical are more likely to have happened.

OK, but how would we know that? Please give an example of a particular scene, and bear in mind THE HYPOTHETICAL POSSIBILITY FALLACY-- just because something is possible doesn't mean it was probable, much less actually applicable to the case of 1st century Christianity.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Dogsgod I guess my question is still the same- What makes you want to deny the existence of Jesus entirely? Is that what this thread is about, let's dismiss Jesus altogether? I guess our ancestors had no ability to keep track if a person existed

 

[tarasan]

What makes you approve of people like alexander the great or juilious ceaser?

 

[dogsgod]

What makes you approve of people like alexander the great or juilious ceaser?

Corroborated accounts, names of sources, names of witnesses and their relations with the subjects in question, artifacts, etc.

 

[dogsgod]

Dogsgod I guess my question is still the same- What makes you want to deny the existence of Jesus entirely? Is that what this thread is about, let's dismiss Jesus altogether? I guess our ancestors had no ability to keep track if a person existed

I'm trying to find out what we can say and know is historical about Jesus.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is well to remember Jesus was a very common name in israel .... much like Jones today in wales.
Other very commonnames were James, Joseph and Mary.

Could some of the stories be about another Jesus?

 

[Oberon]

It is well to remember Jesus was a very common name in israel .... much like Jones today in wales.
Other very commonnames were James, Joseph and Mary.

Could some of the stories be about another Jesus?

No. Just as we use surnames today, they had various ways of identifying people of the same name (even more so, due to how common most names were). The oral tradition that grew up from and around Jesus identified him at Iesous christos, to distinguish him from others with the same name.

 

[dogsgod]

OK, so all things considered is anyone willing and able? What gospel scene actually happened and how would we know?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Asking which gospel myth is 'true' is sort of like asking what type of flying carpet is fastest. In fact, it's pretty much the same question.

 

[dogsgod]

Asking which gospel myth is 'true' is sort of like asking what type of flying carpet is fastest. In fact, it's pretty much the same question.

Not everyone reads the gospels as myth, some consider the gospels to be historical accounts. In that light, it's a legitimate question.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Scientologists consider the OT3 story to be a historical account. And?