-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What good I see in the Baha’i Faith
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
james blunt
Well-Known Member
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I see that you weren’t joking when you said that you were going mad! Didn’t you ever find anyone normal to talk to?james blunt
Well-Known Member
Earthling
David Henson
Interestingly I have been kicking a possible thread around in my head for some time in which I would ask everyone on the forum, including atheists, to express what they think is good about their religious beliefs, or lack of them in the case of atheists, and what was bad about them.
Then I was reading a post here the other day in which someone very strongly indicated that NO ONE speaks on behalf of the Baha'i Faith, which I thought rather odd in that it would be difficult as far as proselytism goes or even explaining their beliefs to another.
But since you asked . . . what do you think are positive aspects of your faith and what might be construed as negative aspects of the Baha'i religion?
Last edited by a moderator:
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I was only volunteering to discuss what good I see in the Baha'i Faith, not what's wrong with it. If you start that other thread, I'll do that there if you want me to. I'll say here that I see all the same personality and character defects, and all the same social problems in the Baha'i Faith that I see in the rest of society. That might be all I would want to say.
Some examples of the good I see in the Baha'i Faith:
1. I think that learning to love, trust and follow Baha'u'llah is the best thing that could happen to anyone, and what the world needs most of all, for human progress; and to stop the violence, right the wrongs and repair the damage.
2. I think that the organized activities of the Baha'i community have always had a beneficial effect on the rest of society, with very little harm done outside of it.
3. I think that the kind of community development that the Universal House of Justice is currently promoting is a big part of what needs to happen for human progress; and to stop the violence, right the wrongs and repair the damage.
Jim, do you think it is religion itself, or the adherents that you see good (or not so good) in? I've seen good people in all faiths, as well as _______ s in all faiths. Never seen a faith that was totally good, or one that was totally bad.
Still, I think some generalising can be made ... 'more likely to be honest, decent' stuff like that. It's also based on one's experience in dealing with members of a certain faith.
Still, I think some generalising can be made ... 'more likely to be honest, decent' stuff like that. It's also based on one's experience in dealing with members of a certain faith.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
What good I see in Bahaullah
I read His Book. And I thought "Okay I will continue reading till I find something I don't like"
I gave up after ca. 60 (or 80) pages. I liked all of it. Could not find thinks I did not like
Edit: Nice surprise after reading Bible and Koran [killing, mutilating, judging was finally gone]
Last edited:
How would you describe the Bahai perspectives towards orthodoxy and adherence, and what do you see as the positive and negative traits of same?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
When I said "the good I see in the Baha'i Faith," I wasn't thinking of how good it is, or how good its members are, compared to others. I'm not saying that the Baha'i Faith, or its members, are good. I was thinking of what good it does. In my mind I don't divide people, or groups or categories of people, into "good" on one side and "bad" on the other. I don't think of people, or groups or categories of people, as being good or bad. "The good I see in the Baha'i Faith" is what I see it doing that looks beneficial to me.
I don't think that the lines between religions have any significance at all for knowing anything about the character or capacities of a person or of a community.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I haven't observed how you use the words "orthodoxy" and "adherence," so I'm not sure I understand your question. Whatever you mean by it, I'm sure that people's perspectives on it range as widely among Baha'is as they do in all the rest of society.
Do you mean, how have I seen Baha'is and Baha'i institutions reacting to people promoting unpopular views, and what do I think about those reactions?
Are you asking me for my interpretation of what Baha'i scriptures and Baha'i institutions say, restricting what ideas and interests people can promote, and what I think about that?
It was a fairly loose question, in part because it is meant to probe a bit into the self-image of the Bahai.
One curiosity that I have is how much rigor and which criteria are used for Bahai to decide who qualifies as a Bahai. For instance, how much room for rebellion against the decisions of the UHJ there is? How much disagreement with or lack of interest in the city council (not sure if that is the proper term) would be acceptable?
What about, say, rejection of monotheism? Ancestor worship? Spiritism? Disagreements about, say, Buddha and Zoroaster being messengers of God?
How much of a deal are those disagreements when they do arise, and what is expected to happen then (if anything)?
There are creeds that have some fairly extreme takes on those matters. It is arguably unavoidable for individual members to touch some extreme or another, even if the Faith as a whole may lack any particular preference or even avoid that entirely.
But I really do not know. And I am curious about that.
Pretty much that, yes.
In a manner of speaking.
I don't think the Bahai Faith is quite as accomodating as, say, the Unitarian Universalists. I had enough first hand experience to realize that, at a minimum, Bahais are expected to think of Monotheism as the proper, best stance regarding god-beliefs.
Which is a fair choice as choices go. Not necessarily better or worse than the alternatives, but still a choice that excludes others, with specific consequences for the scope of the Faith.
Or maybe I am mistaken? Maybe it is no longer a big deal if a Bahai is openly non-Monotheistic? Maybe it never was? Maybe it is not something that all city councils are expected to agree on, and some cities expect monotheism while others avoid discussing the matter and yet others welcome a bit of a rebel streak in the form of outspoken agnostics, atheists or polytheists?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I don’t want to answer general questions about the Baha’i Faith. I’m only answering questions here about my own personal ideas and interests, in learning to follow Bahá’u’lláh. Try www.bahai.org.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I see three ways of answering your questions. One is from what I’ve seen happening, and stories from others. Another is what else I think might be happening. Another is my interpretation of what Baha’i scriptures and Baha’i institutions say about it. I’ll answer all three ways for now, unless and until you tell me otherwise.
In all my 49 years at the heart of Baha’i community life, in Florida, Indiana, Virginia and Martinique, I’ve never seen any application for membership rejected, and I’ve only ever heard of three people being disqualified for membership anywhere in the world.
Whenever I was on a local council considering an application for membership, what I wanted to know was a person’s attitude towards Bahá’u’lláh. I wasn’t looking for any particular statement of belief. I wanted to know if they were aware of what Bahá’u’lláh says about Himself as a messenger of God and if they accepted it as being true, according to their own understanding. I don’t actually know how any other council members thought of it. All I know is that we always ended up accepting the application.
If “rebellion” means campaigns of denunciation and intimidation, trying to influence decisions of institutions, or turn people against them, I personally don’t see any room for that at all, for Baha’u’llah’s purposes. The House of Justice let it go on for many months I think, before it started removing people from the membership. If “rebellion” just means ignoring what the House of Justice says, or even pouring contempt all over it in every post in a blog for years, I’ve never seen the House of Justice objecting to that. If a person defies explicit instructions from a local council, they might lose their voting rights.
I’ve never heard of any of those being issues at all, in considering qualifications for membership, or any other time.
The feuding that eventually led to people being removed from membership started with objections to a policy of books by Baha’is about the Baha’i Faith being reviewed before publishing; some conflicts of interests and hard feelings between some Baha’is and their national councils; and objections to the House of Justice distributing its opinions about some issues that Baha’is were debating about. That led eventually to campaigns of denunciation and intimidation, aimed at changing the decisions of the House of Justice, and/or turning Baha’is against it. That went on for many months I think, until the House of Justice started disqualifying people from the membership.
Apart from two Baha’is I met on the Internet, I’ve never heard of anyone’s atheism, agnosticism, or polytheism being an issue for any Baha’i.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
@LuisDantas I might not have the experience with Baha'is and Baha'i communities that I would need, to tell you what you want to know, if it's about Baha'is all over the world. My only experience with Baha'is has been in three states in the US, on the French island of Martinique, and on the Internet. On the Internet, the most visible Baha'is, the one who post as Baha'is, in Baha'i forums or in discussions about religion in other forums, might be a very biased sample.
With that disclaimer, I'll discuss these questions:
1. How have I seen Baha'is and Baha'i institutions reacting to people promoting unpopular views, and what do I think about those reactions?
2. What is my interpretation of what Baha'i scriptures and Baha'i institutions say, restricting what ideas and interests people can promote, and what do I think about that?
I've seen Baha'is and Baha'i institutions reacting in a multitude of ways. If I tried to describe them all, I would be writing a book. What I really think is that any way you've ever seen people react, friendly or unfriendly, to unpopular views, there are some Baha'is somewhere who will react that way. I'll just try thinking of some examples at random.
Many times in local council meetings I've seen one person with a view diametrically opposed to what the other eight are thinking, and all the other eight trying their best to understand and sympathize with that person's view.
Sometimes in local communities there is some kind of local bandwagon, like building a Baha'i center, or some study program, or someone hosting a monthly meeting for people to learn about the Baha'i Faith. Sometimes people who don't ride the bandwagon feel stigmatized and marginalized.
Sometimes there are conflicts of interest between Baha'i artists and Baha'i administrators. Sometimes when Baha'is have created an association or program with the word "Baha'i" in the name, without it being sponsored or endorsed by a Baha'i council, it has ended up in conflict with Baha'i administrators, with a lot of hard feelings.
When I told my local council about my friendships with people campaigning against the House of Justice, and about my participation in activities of a gay-affirming association, they thought there might be better ways to spend my time, but they didn't see anything wrong with what I was doing.
The most friction that I've ever seen between Baha'is offline has been about building a Baha'i center.
In communities where I've lived, I think that the worst reaction any Baha'i might get to saying that they believed in many gods or none, would be some raised eyebrows, and maybe some Baha'is thinking that they were a little strange.
Some examples of what might arouse the most alarm, and possibly hostile reactions, depending on where, when and how it came up, would be trying to promote the inclusion of women on the House of Justice, or saying that the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha was a forgery, or saying that some living person is the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. Anything that would call into question the authenticity and authority of the Universal House of Justice, or any kind of open opposition to what it says and does. I don't really know what the reaction would be offline, because I've never seen anything like that happening offline. I've only ever known one Baha'is offline who might have even wanted to do anything like that. Years ago when he was troubled about lack of progress in the Baha'i Faith, as most of us have been at one time or another, he found a book in the library that said that the Baha'i Faith was never meant to be organized, and that the document that has been the foundation of its organization was a forgery. That was the answer to everything for him, the whole reason for the stagnation of the Baha'i Faith. He joyfully started sharing his discovery with other Baha'is, and before long he got a visit from a representative of the House of Justice. I don't remember exactly what happened, but whatever it was, it completely alienated him from the Baha'i community.
I remember a Baha'i in one locality who felt stigmatized for her attachments to Christianity.
The people that I've seen who have felt the most repressed and marginalized in the Baha'i community have been racial minorities, gays, some people who called themselves "liberals," and people who aren't on the local bandwagon. With racial minorities, it isn't because of any animosities against them, it's because of the hostility of the cultural environment for them. I've seen the same thing happening to people from the dominant culture in the US, when most of the members of the local community are from Iran.
I've already told you about some of what I've seen online. Every Baha'i forum on the Internet looks like an echo chamber to me, revolving around some popular online culture, or opposition to it, which creates a hostile environment for Baha'is who aren't into that.
My interpretation of Baha'i scriptures and what the House of Justice has said is that there are no forbidden topics of discussion for Baha'is, and no ideas or interests that Baha'is are not allowed to promote. What matters is how they promote their ideas and interests. It can't be with campaigns of denunciation or intimidation, or by trying to rally some people in opposition to others, or in any other way that continually stirs up animosities and hostilities.
With that disclaimer, I'll discuss these questions:
1. How have I seen Baha'is and Baha'i institutions reacting to people promoting unpopular views, and what do I think about those reactions?
2. What is my interpretation of what Baha'i scriptures and Baha'i institutions say, restricting what ideas and interests people can promote, and what do I think about that?
I've seen Baha'is and Baha'i institutions reacting in a multitude of ways. If I tried to describe them all, I would be writing a book. What I really think is that any way you've ever seen people react, friendly or unfriendly, to unpopular views, there are some Baha'is somewhere who will react that way. I'll just try thinking of some examples at random.
Many times in local council meetings I've seen one person with a view diametrically opposed to what the other eight are thinking, and all the other eight trying their best to understand and sympathize with that person's view.
Sometimes in local communities there is some kind of local bandwagon, like building a Baha'i center, or some study program, or someone hosting a monthly meeting for people to learn about the Baha'i Faith. Sometimes people who don't ride the bandwagon feel stigmatized and marginalized.
Sometimes there are conflicts of interest between Baha'i artists and Baha'i administrators. Sometimes when Baha'is have created an association or program with the word "Baha'i" in the name, without it being sponsored or endorsed by a Baha'i council, it has ended up in conflict with Baha'i administrators, with a lot of hard feelings.
When I told my local council about my friendships with people campaigning against the House of Justice, and about my participation in activities of a gay-affirming association, they thought there might be better ways to spend my time, but they didn't see anything wrong with what I was doing.
The most friction that I've ever seen between Baha'is offline has been about building a Baha'i center.
In communities where I've lived, I think that the worst reaction any Baha'i might get to saying that they believed in many gods or none, would be some raised eyebrows, and maybe some Baha'is thinking that they were a little strange.
Some examples of what might arouse the most alarm, and possibly hostile reactions, depending on where, when and how it came up, would be trying to promote the inclusion of women on the House of Justice, or saying that the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha was a forgery, or saying that some living person is the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. Anything that would call into question the authenticity and authority of the Universal House of Justice, or any kind of open opposition to what it says and does. I don't really know what the reaction would be offline, because I've never seen anything like that happening offline. I've only ever known one Baha'is offline who might have even wanted to do anything like that. Years ago when he was troubled about lack of progress in the Baha'i Faith, as most of us have been at one time or another, he found a book in the library that said that the Baha'i Faith was never meant to be organized, and that the document that has been the foundation of its organization was a forgery. That was the answer to everything for him, the whole reason for the stagnation of the Baha'i Faith. He joyfully started sharing his discovery with other Baha'is, and before long he got a visit from a representative of the House of Justice. I don't remember exactly what happened, but whatever it was, it completely alienated him from the Baha'i community.
I remember a Baha'i in one locality who felt stigmatized for her attachments to Christianity.
The people that I've seen who have felt the most repressed and marginalized in the Baha'i community have been racial minorities, gays, some people who called themselves "liberals," and people who aren't on the local bandwagon. With racial minorities, it isn't because of any animosities against them, it's because of the hostility of the cultural environment for them. I've seen the same thing happening to people from the dominant culture in the US, when most of the members of the local community are from Iran.
I've already told you about some of what I've seen online. Every Baha'i forum on the Internet looks like an echo chamber to me, revolving around some popular online culture, or opposition to it, which creates a hostile environment for Baha'is who aren't into that.
My interpretation of Baha'i scriptures and what the House of Justice has said is that there are no forbidden topics of discussion for Baha'is, and no ideas or interests that Baha'is are not allowed to promote. What matters is how they promote their ideas and interests. It can't be with campaigns of denunciation or intimidation, or by trying to rally some people in opposition to others, or in any other way that continually stirs up animosities and hostilities.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
@RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha @Vinayaka @LuisDantas
I forgot to say, part of the good I see the Baha'i Faith doing, for followers of Baha'u'llah, is providing a community where His followers can practice His prescriptions for community life and social institutions.
I forgot to say, part of the good I see the Baha'i Faith doing, for followers of Baha'u'llah, is providing a community where His followers can practice His prescriptions for community life and social institutions.