What God has not joined together: Humanist weddings in Scotland now outnumber Christian ones

[exchemist]

Yes, but there's more to that story as well. Are you familiar with Malcolm Muggeridge's conversion and why he chose Catholicism?

One criticism with the Anglican Church is that their theology is all over the place which, truth be told, mine is as well as you're probably aware of. Same has also been charged against mainline Protestant denominations as well, btw.

Yes. "St. Mugg", as he was known, was heading that way for years, though. The unique feature of the Anglican church has been its ability to embrace both quasi-Catholic and quasi-Calvinist theology, in order to remain the Established Church of England throughout the period of the wars of religion on the Continent. You can pick and mix your theology to a large degree.

The C of E is the default in England and Wales, which makes the others, like the Catholics, stand out as a positive and different choice. So that, together with being a minority that was until fairly recently the object of prejudice, knits Catholics together, in Britain in a way that does not apply in France, say. But in fact a lot of English Catholic church attendance is from incomers of various sorts: Irish, French, Spanish, Italians, Poles and, latterly, Africans. Our local church in S London has lots of all of these.

 

[metis]

Yes. "St. Mugg", as he was known, was heading that way for years, though. The unique feature of the Anglican church has been its ability to embrace both quasi-Catholic and quasi-Calvinist theology, in order to remain the Established Church of England throughout the period of the wars of religion on the Continent. You can pick and mix your theology to a large degree.

The C of E is the default in England and Wales, which makes the others, like the Catholics, Stand out as a positive and different choice. So that, together with being a minority that was until fairly recently the object of prejudice, knits Catholics together, in Britain in a way that does not apply in France, say. But in fact a lot of English Catholic church attendance is from incomers of various sorts: Irish, French, Spanish, Italians, Poles and, latterly, Africans. Our local church in S London has lots of all of these.

Thanks for the above.

BTW, my patron saint is Thomas More, even though he hardly had a glorious past , and I also enjoy C. K. Chesterton's works, especially the "Father Brown" series.

 

[exchemist]

Thanks for the above.

BTW, my patron saint is Thomas More, even though he hardly had a glorious past , and I also enjoy C. K. Chesterton's works, especially the "Father Brown" series.

By the way, do you know the Italian "Don Camillo" series? I rather liked some of those when I was young.

But my father used to tell us stirring stories of the Catholic recusants under Elizabeth I. I recall a book called "The Hunted Priest", an autobiographical account by Fr. John Gerard, SJ. Very gripping - and shed a different historical light on the reign of "Good Queen Bess", whom all Englishmen are supposed to idolise.

 

[Pudding]

What God has not joined together: Humanist weddings in Scotland now outnumber Christian ones

Also what Flying Spaghetti Monster has not joined together: Humanist and Christian Weddings outnumber Pastafarian ones.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I can see non-religious people who want to have a big party for their wedding go this route--you can't really have a big party at town hall.

I got married at a winery. Had the reception right there as well, and there was a boutique hotel there for the bridal party and a few interstate guests to crash at.

Non-religious as it was, I wouldn't describe myself or the ceremony as 'humanist' in any sense. I really wonder how they're getting these stats, to be honest, and am pretty dubious.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Just need England and Wales to join the 20th Century and also allow Humanist ceremonies

I'm confused/ignorant. What do you mean by this?

 

[Altfish]

I'm confused/ignorant. What do you mean by this?

In Scotland a Humanist wedding is recognised by the state.
In England and Wales, you can have a Humanist service but you then have to get the wedding made 'official' at a Registry Office.

There's a bit more here

Humanist weddings

... scroll down to legal status section...

 

[metis]

By the way, do you know the Italian "Don Camillo" series? I rather liked some of those when I was young.

But my father used to tell us stirring stories of the Catholic recusants under Elizabeth I. I recall a book called "The Hunted Priest", an autobiographical account by Fr. John Gerard, SJ. Very gripping - and shed a different historical light on the reign of "Good Queen Bess", whom all Englishmen are supposed to idolise.

No, I'm not familiar with the series, and I'll have to check out the latter

 

[lewisnotmiller]

In Scotland a Humanist wedding is recognised by the state.
In England and Wales, you can have a Humanist service but you then have to get the wedding made 'official' at a Registry Office.

There's a bit more here

Humanist weddings

... scroll down to legal status section...

Wow...I just assumed...
I'm kinda stunned by that, actually.

 

[Altfish]

Wow...I just assumed...
I'm kinda stunned by that, actually.

Indeed, it is so outdated

 

[exchemist]

Indeed, it is so outdated

I'm not sure why this is considered surprising.

It has always been the case that marriages, being legal contracts with important consequences for the parties, can only be conducted by people licensed for the task, who can be trusted to make sure the marriage is properly entered into, properly witnessed, properly recorded and can complete the necessary official paperwork for submission to the National Register. (As I recall, it takes about 10 minutes to sign the register, during a wedding ceremony.) Apart from the officials at the Town Hall, licenses to do it have up to now included C of E clergy and the ministers of a number of other religious denominations recognised as reputable.

There is no particular reason why something calling itself the Humanist Association should automatically be entrusted by the authorities with this responsibility. It seems that in Scotland the authorities have decided the Humanist Association is sufficiently long-standing, its officials sufficiently competent and trustworthy and the Association is sufficiently popular for weddings to make it worthwhile to add a list of its officials to the register of people authorised to conduct marriages. In England and Wales they have not taken this step, apparently. Maybe they will if there is enough demand. But maybe in England and Wales most people who are not religious don't want to go to the Humanist Association to get married.

 

[Secret Chief]

I can see non-religious people who want to have a big party for their wedding go this route--you can't really have a big party at town hall.

The official part in the town hall is usually followed by a knees-up elsewhere. You can get hitched in some manner pretty much wherever you want in the UK. For example, my partner and I considered having our civil partnership* ceremony at a zoo. It was only the cost that put us off. (Plus I couldn't have a Red Panda as a page boy).

*Now the legal equivalent of marriage.

 

[Secret Chief]

Just need England and Wales to join the 20th Century and also allow Humanist ceremonies

Huh?

 

[Secret Chief]

In Scotland a Humanist wedding is recognised by the state.
In England and Wales, you can have a Humanist service but you then have to get the wedding made 'official' at a Registry Office.

There's a bit more here

Humanist weddings

... scroll down to legal status section...

This is all very confusing! Are the "location" rules different depending on wedding/civil partnership?

 

[Secret Chief]

Humanists? Bah, blimmin speciesists!

 

[Twilight Hue]

‘Marriages celebrated through a non-religious belief ceremony are now outnumbering Christian ones in Scotland as the nation increasingly turns its back on churches.

Official stats reveal that for the first time there were more humanist marriages in Scotland last year than there were Christian marriages of all denominations combined.

Humanist marriages made up 23% of all marriages, while Christian marriages made up 22%, according to the National Records of Scotland data.’

Read more here:
What God has not joined together: Humanist weddings in Scotland now outnumber Christian ones

It's a good time to remind Christians that they did not invent the concept of marriage. They don't own the term marriage.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not sure why this is considered surprising.

It has always been the case that marriages, being legal contracts with important consequences for the parties, can only be conducted by people licensed for the task, who can be trusted to make sure the marriage is properly entered into, properly witnessed, properly recorded and can complete the necessary official paperwork for submission to the National Register. (As I recall, it takes about 10 minutes to sign the register, during a wedding ceremony.) Apart from the officials at the Town Hall, licenses to do it have up to now included C of E clergy and the ministers of a number of other religious denominations recognised as reputable.

There is no particular reason why something calling itself the Humanist Association should automatically be entrusted by the authorities with this responsibility. It seems that in Scotland the authorities have decided the Humanist Association is sufficiently long-standing, its officials sufficiently competent and trustworthy and the Association is sufficiently popular for weddings to make it worthwhile to add a list of its officials to the register of people authorised to conduct marriages. In England and Wales they have not taken this step, apparently. Maybe they will if there is enough demand. But maybe in England and Wales most people who are not religious don't want to go to the Humanist Association to get married.

Completely disagree.
Marriage is a contract, and people should be trained to properly execute it. That's it.

If those people are religious, or non-religious, I could care less, and choice in the matter is great.

But the 'trustworthiness' of the organisation doesn't impact on the knowledge of the individual providing the service.
Just have a licensing requirement.

Full disclosure, I was married in a non-religious ceremony held at a winery. It was a pretty traditional wedding in a lot of ways, if you take out all mention of God, or churches. We had readings, etc.

We didn't have to go separately to a registry office, or jump through some other hoop. We just got married.

 

[Altfish]

I'm not sure why this is considered surprising.

It has always been the case that marriages, being legal contracts with important consequences for the parties, can only be conducted by people licensed for the task, who can be trusted to make sure the marriage is properly entered into, properly witnessed, properly recorded and can complete the necessary official paperwork for submission to the National Register. (As I recall, it takes about 10 minutes to sign the register, during a wedding ceremony.) Apart from the officials at the Town Hall, licenses to do it have up to now included C of E clergy and the ministers of a number of other religious denominations recognised as reputable.

There is no particular reason why something calling itself the Humanist Association should automatically be entrusted by the authorities with this responsibility. It seems that in Scotland the authorities have decided the Humanist Association is sufficiently long-standing, its officials sufficiently competent and trustworthy and the Association is sufficiently popular for weddings to make it worthwhile to add a list of its officials to the register of people authorised to conduct marriages. In England and Wales they have not taken this step, apparently. Maybe they will if there is enough demand. But maybe in England and Wales most people who are not religious don't want to go to the Humanist Association to get married.

All Humanist Celebrants are fully trained, certified and regularly 'audited'; they have more training and in particular refresher training than most religious officials.
You imply that Humanists are not reputable - where on earth does that come from.

England is backward in this, it should have happened years ago; grief even Northern Ireland allow it.

 

[Altfish]

This is all very confusing! Are the "location" rules different depending on wedding/civil partnership?

No, the rules are different is Scotland compared to England and Wales.
In Scotland Humanists can carry out weddings and civil partnerships including the legal side of it; in England they can (and increasingly do) perform the ceremony but can't sign the register

 

[Secret Chief]

No, the rules are different is Scotland compared to England and Wales.
In Scotland Humanists can carry out weddings and civil partnerships including the legal side of it; in England they can (and increasingly do) perform the ceremony but can't sign the register

Ah, got you.