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What gives you the idea that a deity is real?

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
like our eyes sense light and our ears sense sound.
We actually don't see light itself or sound itself. We only detect light when it's reflected from other objects or we're looking at the source of the light (photons) itself. With sound, our ears are just detecting soundwave or disturbances in the air created by pressure. So we're not really experiencing it directly.

Just wanted to throw a wrench in your conversation. :p
 

leov

Well-Known Member
In earlier posts you said that some people’s organs for sensing energy from a deity are dead. What are your reasons for thinking that some people never have ideas come into their head that they know are true?

Also, what is your reasoning, from that experience of suddenly having ideas to that you know are true, to saying that some particular organs are sensing energies from a deity? Is that one of those ideas that suddenly came into your head, that you know are true? Also, how do you know the difference between an idea that comes into your head that’s true, and one that isn’t?
some do some don't, working organs is not sign of intelligency, primitive people living in non polluted environment have them working more efficiently than in civilized world, they see spirits everywhere.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
We actually don't see light itself or sound itself. We only detect light when it's reflected from other objects or we're looking at the source of the light (photons) itself. With sound, our ears are just detecting soundwave or disturbances in the air created by pressure. So we're not really experiencing it directly.

Just wanted to throw a wrench in your conversation. :p

Is that really so? I think we see an object when light is reflected off of it and enters the eye. But if we didn’t sense light, then we would not be able to see the object. If you mean we don’t see individual photons, that would be true.

as to sound, if the sound waves do not constitute the sound, what does? Do you mean because it travels through the inner ear fluid first?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
In what units you want evidence?

The ball is in your court. In what units do you normally measure a god? lol

I am not asking you to measure anything. I am asking you to demonstrate that a gland can detect a god......any god.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
There is no ball, we just have another sense, e.g something detecting ultra high modulated vibrstions, prove me wrong.

You have the burden of proof. I have made no claim and have nothing to prove. Demonstrate your claim with evidence. Either you can, or you cannot. A claim that is made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
You have the burden of proof. I have made no claim and have nothing to prove. Demonstrate your claim with evidence. Either you can, or you cannot. A claim that is made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I just gave you my proof. Now, prove my statement wrong.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I just gave you my proof. Now, probe my statement wrong.

you have given no evidence, only made an additional assertion.

assertion 1: the pineal gland detects gods
assertion 2: the pineal gland detects a particular vibration frequency.

You now have two claims to defend.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
you have given no evidence, only made an additional assertion.

assertion 1: the pineal gland detects gods
assertion 2: the pineal gland detects a particular vibration frequency.

You now have two claims to defend.
90% of people on Earth are theists, only 10 are not, so they sense vibrations, like myself, 90% is a default , your position is odd and you need to provide prove that over 90% of living and those who lived, do not sense those vibrations.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
90% of people on Earth are theists, only 10 are not, so they sense vibrations, like myself, 90% is a default , your position is odd and you need to provide prove that over 90% of living and those who lived, do not sense those vibrations.

only 84% of the world’s population is religious, and some are non-theisric, some are deistic, some are poly-theistic, so your 90% theist number is crap.

My position is I don’t believe your claim because you are unable to provide credible evidence to support it. That is a perfectly reasonable position.

The percentage of theists in the world does not in any way support your two claims. You have not demonstrated that theists sense god with an endocrine gland.

People have believed in hundreds if not thousands of different gods over the years. why would they all detect a different god? How many gods do you believe in?
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
only 84% of the world’s population is religious, and some are non-theisric, some are deistic, some are poly-theistic, so your 90% theist number is crap.

My position is I don’t believe your claim because you are unable to provide credible evidence to support it. That is a perfectly reasonable position.

The percentage of theists in the world does not in any way support your two claims. You have not demonstrated that theists sense god with an endocrine gland.

People have believed in thousands of different gods. How many gods do you think there are? Why would different people detect different gods?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
only 84% of the world’s population is religious, and some are non-theisric, some are deistic, some are poly-theistic, so your 90% theist number is crap.

My position is I don’t believe your claim because you are unable to provide credible evidence to support it. That is a perfectly reasonable position.

The percentage of theists in the world does not in any way support your two claims. You have not demonstrated that theists sense god with an endocrine gland.
If you noticed I used my supposition as example. I do not know actual physics of the pricess, I just know what I experienced. No science can prove theism wrong, actually science can account for some 5% of knowledge so it is a fleeting proposition to rely on science, another QM type of mystery. I do not know what other people experienced, I can answer about myself . Ancients always considered the third eye, Bible too. Modem people somewhat changed because of pollutions, sugar, noise, e.t.c.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
People have believed in thousands of different gods. How many gods do you think there are? Why would different people detect different gods?
I mentioned that I called God Multiverse. God is one but billions of people's reactions. Particular religions are because God (by whatever name) is innate part of humanity.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Is that really so? I think we see an object when light is reflected off of it and enters the eye. But if we didn’t sense light, then we would not be able to see the object. If you mean we don’t see individual photons, that would be true.

as to sound, if the sound waves do not constitute the sound, what does? Do you mean because it travels through the inner ear fluid first?
It's like space - there's light in space but we still see space as black whereas we see sky as blue (due to the light reflecting off of closer objects in our atmosphere than would be in space).

And, no - the reaction to air pressure caused by sound waves isn't sound itself.

But I'm out of it. :rolleyes:
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
If you noticed I used my supposition as example. I do not know actual physics of the pricess, I just know what I experienced. No science can prove theism wrong, actually science can account for some 5% of knowledge so it is a fleeting proposition to rely on science, another QM type of mystery. I do not know what other people experienced, I can answer about myself . Ancients always considered the third eye, Bible too. Modem people somewhat changed because of pollutions, sugar, noise, e.t.c.

Science does not have to prove your assertions wrong...you are required to provide evidence thatyour assertions are true. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.

Science is a methodology, not a being, so science cannot know anything. People can know.......Methodologies cannot know.

But be that as it may, the only way you can say that science knows 5% of knowledge is if you yourself know 100% of the knowledge. Otherwise, you have no way to know what percentage anybody knows.....so you have made another assertion you cannot possibly support.

And, you are now making claims that pollution, noise, and sugar prevent the pineal gland god detector from working. These are additional unsupported claims.....

You are of course free to believe anything you want. You can believe the tooth fairy is real if you wish. But believing something does not make it true.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Atheists are often obsessed with the natural world and its physical laws where cause and effect can be rationally understood and proven. God however is beyond His creation (time and space), so He can never be found by just observing the world of cause and effect. So finding no proof for God within this universe is totally useless as an argument.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Those who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, do not need to use such language, because they know the truth.

How? And how come they don't even agree with each other? Cue no true Scotsman fallacy...

To me, it's nothing more than wishful thinking to say, "Well true. We have never seen this happen, but it's likely it happened." Yet claiming that an argument based on what we see happen, and therefore knows to be the case, is daft. o_O

You didn't base an argument on what you saw and knew - unless you regularly watch universes being created. Accusing people of wishful thinking for following reasoning and evidence is somewhat ironic.

My knowledge about who and what the intelligent designer is, who created all things, comes from the Bible.

The irony increases. I've read the bible and it's an incoherent, often self-contradictory, mess.

You come into a world where many things and people precede you.
Do you imagine that no one preceding you could possibly know the truth? What would cause a person to imagine that?

I'm sure lots of people in the past have known lots of things that are true but "The Truth" about how and why everything exists - no. I don't think anybody ever has or probably ever will. I see no merit at all in the incoherent myths of the bible.

I notice you didn't actually address any of the points I made - ho hum.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
When there is no physical evidence, what made you decide there is or are gods? Do you care about lack of proof? How do you experience this/these deity/deities?

We have five senses, which are sight, sound, taste, touch and smell. Each sense can verify some aspects of reality data. Full reality verification requires that all the five senses be used at the same time. An intimate relationship between man and woman can engages all five senses, simultaneously. Procreation places us in the center of reality. Whereas, looking at the universe through telescopes, only uses the sense of sight for partial sensory verification.

The sense of sight is important in terms of science verification. However, sight alone leaves out the other four senses, and therefore has no checks and balances to fully verify 5-D sensory reality for the animal brain. Einstein demonstrated the relative nature of reference, which is based on using energy/sight. The limitation of one sense, such as sight, can be demonstrated with virtual reality glasses. Computers and technology is showing us how using one sense, even sight, can fool us, if there is no verification from the other four senses.

Belief and proof of God is rarely done by the sense of sight. Belief in God tends to be verified with a subset of the sense of touch. This subset is associated with feelings and body sensations, such as a gut feeling or an intuition. It uses the same number of senses as physics, which is one.

Faith is often done in community, where human contact and intimacy is part of the verifying experience. There you can use your eyes and ears to verify your inner feelings though others. In the case of science, you can also use community feelings of conviction, to verify your sense of sight; peer review.

Physics put almost complete emphasis on the sense of sight, but this single sense choice is 1-D and relative to reference. Chemistry and biology are two sciences where sight is used but also assisted by our other senses, such as touch, smell and even sound. Food Chemistry and biology even adds taste. This is the center of science 5-D reality and should be the foundation, not 1-D verification science.

In summary, just a some people need glasses or contact lenses to see better, there are also aids that can be used to help one feel God; bible. Also, if one sense is lacking, nature has a way to strengthen the other senses. The scientist may not feel properly, so they will have enhanced sight. While the religious may not see as well in terms of nature, but has enhanced feelings and internal touch verification. Both are parts of possible human experience within 5-D sensory reality.
 
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