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What exactly is Islamophobia?

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.
No.

What makes you an islamophobe is a pattern of behaviour.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.

Yeah, but in effect no all believers in that religion are fundamentalists. So it is not black and white for all the believers. That is your bias that you use such words.
That doesn't make you an Islamophobe. It just means that you have a bias. But so do all humans and that includes me. I just try to understand my own biases as much as those in other humans.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?
As a basic principle it's really straight forward, and no different to that for any other form of undue discrimination. In general it is about treating people differently (generally negatively) on the basis of their being Muslim (or you thinking they're Muslim even if they're not - an important aspect often overlooked). Obviously there are practical complications and grey areas but the principle is simple. Basically, you need to consider how you'd feel if someone treated you in the same way (without dismissing it as impossible because you don't think there is anything negative about your beliefs - that doesn't prevent discrimination against you).

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?
That isn't the only thing you dislike about Islam and Muslims is it? This isn't about individual points you might choose to pick out to support your position. After all, Muslims could pick out a more positive extracts from their scripture as a basis for saying Islam is good.

It's about a wider pattern of day-to-day behaviour, conscious and subconscious, and it is about how you treat people rather than books. Do you assume everyone who is Muslim (or who you think is Muslim) supports that specific text? Do you assume all Muslim husbands beat their wives? And significantly, do you treat people of other religions or faiths in similar ways, on the basis of singular apparently negative scripture, concepts or history (which they pretty much all could be accused of in a similar way after all).
 
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?

I’m not a fan of the term Islamophobia, but your approach to Islam does seem to be based on confirming your anti-Islamic prejudices and biases rather than any genuine attempt to understand Islam in a nuanced and fair manner.

Imo there are 2 intellectually honest approaches:

1. Try to analyse Islam from a secular historical perspective
2. Making a good faith attempt understand what Muslims believe and why

Your approach tends to be to decide how you personally think Muslims should interpret their scriptures (i.e. in the most negative way possible) sometimes combined with some cod-historical contextualisation where you just make up what you think the real Muhammad did (for example your Banu Qurayza thread).

Your threads seem to be more an excuse to say "isn't Islam really bad" framed as a genuine attempt at discussion.

So dislike of certain aspects of Islam is not "Islamophobia", but displaying consistent prejudice and bias could be considered to be for those who favour the term.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.
Since you ask: if you view Islam and its followers through that lens then, yes, you're an islamophobe.

(There is, by the way, an instructive translation and commentary to be found in Muhammad Asad's The Message of the Qur'an.)
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.

I think it's a valid question. You could ask the same question about Christianity's more problematic verses also.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.
Your habit of making exclusively threads against Islam is a good start towards a definition.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Yeah, but in effect no all believers in that religion are fundamentalists. So it is not black and white for all the believers. That is your bias that you use such words.
That doesn't make you an Islamophobe. It just means that you have a bias. But so do all humans and that includes me. I just try to understand my own biases as much as those in other humans.

The problem I have with that answer is that - in effect - it makes being a "Muslim" a meaningless term. If you don't think that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god, then what do you mean when you say you're a "Muslim"?

This is not about being a fundamentalist, this is about the most basic claims of Islam.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

To be clear, there are people who are bigoted against Muslims.

With that said, I think "Islamophobia" is a dishonest term, primarily used to try to silence critics of Islam. Like all religions, Islam is a set of ideas. Any and all ideas should be open to discuss, debate, and criticize.

fwiw, I agree with Sam Harris when he declared that "Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas".
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
This is not about being a fundamentalist, this is about the most basic claims of Islam.
Mmm .. and people that like to drink alcohol will find a way to justify their habit.
We all have likes and dislikes .. the problem is, that we often like something that is bad for us,
and dislike something that is good for us.

A case in point, is about women's role in respecting and submitting to their husbands.
Is that a virtue, or an injustice?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I've been called an Islamophobe too many times to count. Can someone please tell me what that means?

Let's get specific. For example, I greatly dislike verse 4:34. It says that men are in charge of women, and that when they disobey they are to be beaten. I'm not making anything up or putting some sort of spin on it. It's right there in black and white for everyone to see. So, does my dislike of that verse make me an Islamophobe?


I will ignore all of the predictable whataboutism and trolling.
I wouldn't give a rats *** what people think.

Mind you it's hate the religion, not always the person as I do think people try to change the nature of this religious monster.
 
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stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but in effect no all believers in that religion are fundamentalists.

Nobody said they were. I certainly have never said that.

So it is not black and white for all the believers.

It's supposed to be. If a person professes the belief that God imparted the Qur'an to Mohamed, and that his dictates are meant to be followed, then it is indeed a black and white choice.

That is your bias that you use such words.

Such words? What words?

That doesn't make you an Islamophobe. It just means that you have a bias. But so do all humans and that includes me.

Okay. Yes. I have a bias against a belief that calls non-adherents "the worst of God's beasts (8:55)". Why shouldn't I? Verses such as this explain why Islamists can so easily kill "in the way of Allah" those who have been dehumanized.

I just try to understand my own biases as much as those in other humans.

Good plan. If you read the Qur'an you will VERY clearly understand the biases that SOME Muslims hold. Disbelievers are described as "evil doers" MANY hundreds of times by God himself. Don't you think that sort of characterization, especially when it's drummed into people from birth, is bound to create a life-long feeling of animus?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The problem I have with that answer is that - in effect - it makes being a "Muslim" a meaningless term. If you don't think that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god, then what do you mean when you say you're a "Muslim"?

This is not about being a fundamentalist, this is about the most basic claims of Islam.
Jews, Christians, Muslims even, probably most of them to ever live have viewed much of those stories as stories. Like the Garden of Eden and Creation. That's not usually interpreted literally.
But believing those things isn't what defines adherents of those religions. Jews, for example, have a specific set of codes and functions in relation to serving their god and having that larger community. Christians set out to follow the example set by Jesus of Nazareth, who they believe is a promised messiah and son of their god. Muslims believe much of that, but make Jesus into a prophet and add Muhammad as another.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Your habit of making exclusively threads against Islam is a good start towards a definition.

As I said, obvious trolling responses will be ignored. How do you feel about the qur'an telling the male in charge of you to beat you if you're disobedient?
 
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