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what exactly is gnostic Satanism?
- Thread starter DanielR
- Start date
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I never heard of an official subgroup titled as such, though I'm betting that those who use that title draw certain elements from Satanism and certain elements from Gnosticism, which elements entirely depends on the person.
Thanks for your replies, the person I was talking to believes the snake to be the true god also she equates the highest god with EL (it's a Sumerian god, right?).
I didn't know one could draw these parallels to other cultures like the Sumerans, I'm still very new to Gnosticism
.
I didn't know one could draw these parallels to other cultures like the Sumerans, I'm still very new to Gnosticism
.
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Thanks for your replies, the person I was talking to believes the snake to be the true god also she equates the highest god with EL (it's a Sumerian god, right?).
I didn't know one could draw these parallels to other cultures like the Sumerans, I'm still very new to Gnosticism
El is the God of humanity and the lord of the living in the Canaanite religion. In Gnosticism, correct me if I am wrong, El is the spiritual world God while Yahweh is the god of the physical world, right?
El didn't appear in Sumerian culture.
It sounds like she may be an Ophite. The Ophites were called such because they venerated the serpent from the Garden, comparing it to the saving serpent of the Israelites - the bronze serpent that Moses crucified, and thus to Jesus Christ. Ironically, we see this today within orthodox churched thanks to John 3:14 ("And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up"). Jesus even commands his disciples to be like serpents (Matthew 10:16: "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.")
In regards to El, that may be a name she has given God, since the term is generically "God." You are correct that the name is also a god, but a creator god. However, because of the role El had, and his connection to the Hebrew El, I am more inclined to believe El is the (a?) name of the Craftsman. She may be contrasting El in the beginning of Genesis (a lofty, disassociated all-powerful god) with YHWH in Genesis 2 (a more personal, interactive god). I am not too sure.
As far as combining Satanism, as in the expression of LaVey, there is half-precedence. But not in the sense of how LaVey believed. The Church of Satan does not actually believe in a God, unless you get into theistic beliefs such as Temple of Set. But even then, the system is antithetical to Christianity. Not because of indulgences, but because of the rather hostile world view. A Gnostic, after Jesus Christ, would not seek vengeance or declare kindness "for those who deserve it."
The Carpocratians believed in indulgences of all sorts, supposedly. They would intentionally commit carnal acts. It seems that the idea was to fulfill these sorts of acts now, since if they did not, the soul may be inclined to return to the world. Clement said their meetings would become orgies.
The Borborites were also described as being sexually amoral. They would use semen and menstrual blood in their consumption of the Eucharist. Crowley would commit the same later in history. However, they are also said to have aborted children produced unwanted during their orgies and eat them.
While the Carpocratians could have existed as such, I think the Borborites were a gross overexaggeration by the recorders as we have them now. While humans and humanity can be quite dark at times, I do not think the Roman/Greek world would have really eaten abortions. But in the case of the Carpocratians, excessive hedonism could have applied. And this is where Satanism would find similarities.
The ideas of these would be from the Cainites, who essentially took the known mythology and history and inverted it. Cain was not a murderer, but a victim. As were the Sodomites and Korah. They detested the Craftsman so much, they felt that the opponents of the Craftsman must have been good.
The term "Gnostic Satanist" bothers me a little though, since Satan is still evil. It is only the Craftsman is considered to be Satan - the adversary. Specifically, the adversary to the true God. If she meant she combined the theology/philosophy of the two groups, it may be best for her to look up the Ophites and the Carpocratians.
I tried looking to see the concept of God in Thelema, but did not see El. So I can't exactly know what she is referring to. This may help a little bit though.
In regards to El, that may be a name she has given God, since the term is generically "God." You are correct that the name is also a god, but a creator god. However, because of the role El had, and his connection to the Hebrew El, I am more inclined to believe El is the (a?) name of the Craftsman. She may be contrasting El in the beginning of Genesis (a lofty, disassociated all-powerful god) with YHWH in Genesis 2 (a more personal, interactive god). I am not too sure.
As far as combining Satanism, as in the expression of LaVey, there is half-precedence. But not in the sense of how LaVey believed. The Church of Satan does not actually believe in a God, unless you get into theistic beliefs such as Temple of Set. But even then, the system is antithetical to Christianity. Not because of indulgences, but because of the rather hostile world view. A Gnostic, after Jesus Christ, would not seek vengeance or declare kindness "for those who deserve it."
The Carpocratians believed in indulgences of all sorts, supposedly. They would intentionally commit carnal acts. It seems that the idea was to fulfill these sorts of acts now, since if they did not, the soul may be inclined to return to the world. Clement said their meetings would become orgies.
The Borborites were also described as being sexually amoral. They would use semen and menstrual blood in their consumption of the Eucharist. Crowley would commit the same later in history. However, they are also said to have aborted children produced unwanted during their orgies and eat them.
While the Carpocratians could have existed as such, I think the Borborites were a gross overexaggeration by the recorders as we have them now. While humans and humanity can be quite dark at times, I do not think the Roman/Greek world would have really eaten abortions. But in the case of the Carpocratians, excessive hedonism could have applied. And this is where Satanism would find similarities.
The ideas of these would be from the Cainites, who essentially took the known mythology and history and inverted it. Cain was not a murderer, but a victim. As were the Sodomites and Korah. They detested the Craftsman so much, they felt that the opponents of the Craftsman must have been good.
The term "Gnostic Satanist" bothers me a little though, since Satan is still evil. It is only the Craftsman is considered to be Satan - the adversary. Specifically, the adversary to the true God. If she meant she combined the theology/philosophy of the two groups, it may be best for her to look up the Ophites and the Carpocratians.
I tried looking to see the concept of God in Thelema, but did not see El. So I can't exactly know what she is referring to. This may help a little bit though.
I've always seen them as the same. El was a more generic term for god, but YHWH was the personal name in Hebrew. There are many terms for the spiritual God, the Father, but I've never seen it as El, that I am aware of.
Thanks for this great reply, it's been very helpful! And yes you are right it was my mistake, it was not El but Eniki, according to her (it's somebody from a German philosophy forum, she seems quite educated in that matter) Eniki was the true God, or maybe not true because she believed in the One that preexisted everything, but she said that Eniki was a higher god than, oh am I allowed to say it YHvH who is the demiurge.
Now she doesn't say that Eniki is the true God but he was 'higher' than Yahweh. I think that's why she calls it Satanism because in her belief in the Sumerian gods.
But you're right I never heard the term before as well, that's why I asked here, this was really a great reply, very helpful. I searched the Internet about gnostic Satanism but couldn't find anything.
Thanks again
nazz
Doubting Thomas
Thanks for your replies, the person I was talking to believes the snake to be the true god also she equates the highest god with EL (it's a Sumerian god, right?).
I didn't know one could draw these parallels to other cultures like the Sumerans, I'm still very new to Gnosticism
I consider the serpent to be an agent of the Holy spirit but that does not make me a Satanist except perhaps only in the eyes of some Christians.
The most well-known Gnostic Satanist group is the Temple of the Black Light. It is also called Anti-Cosmic Satanism or Chaos Gnosticism. They believe that the physical universe is evil and await the destruction of it so that their souls may be released into the realm of Chaos, a pandimensional realm of no limits where everything and nothing exists.
That group was closely linked to the band Dissection, as well as Watain and (I believe) Glorior Belli.
Temple of the Black Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anyway, that's what I know about Gnostic Satanism. I don't know about your friend, though.
That group was closely linked to the band Dissection, as well as Watain and (I believe) Glorior Belli.
Temple of the Black Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anyway, that's what I know about Gnostic Satanism. I don't know about your friend, though.
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Well, they aren't Christians, that's for sure. Lol. I'm not quite sure how they formed their belief system (which is very extreme), but the Gnostic parts seem to be filtered down from the groups that venerated the Serpent. A lot of Luciferians have a Gnostic bent due to inspiration from those groups. The rest of it is polytheistic Satanism and the Qliphoth. They do believe in a literal Demiurge but judging by the lyrics on Dissection's Reinkaos album (based entirely on the Temple's beliefs), they don't only aim their ire at Yahweh since there's disrespect shown to pagan deities that represent order. Anyway, they take it all quite literally. They also don't believe that everyone has a soul, which I've heard that some early Gnostic groups believed.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
Say what? :areyoucra
I've read that some early Gnostic groups didn't believe that everyone had a soul or a Divine Spark and so those people will remain trapped in matter. The Temple of the Black Light calls the soulless people "mudborn" and the ones with the Divine Spark "fireborn".
If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's what I've read before.
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nazz
Doubting Thomas
I don't know if you are wrong. I've just never heard of that. People were classified as hylics if they were very materialistic but that did not mean they did not possess a soul. Just an underdeveloped one.
Ah. Thanks, haven't heard that before. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will drop some facts on us about that. Lol.
Psyche, the Psychics, means "soul" though - why would there be a difference between Hylic and Psychic, if everyone has a psyche?
According to the Valentinian system, the hylics do not have a soul and upon death will disappear forever. The Psychics are given a choice, their free-will, and could receive salvation. If they are good but do not gain gnosis, they are delivered to the Craftsman in a type of Paradise. If they are more hylic, they are destroyed. If they gain gnosis, they are pneumatic. The Pneumatics hear and understand completely the Father and truth, immediately.
Truth be told, I am psychic. I admit it. I did not immediately grasp the truth.
Beyond Gnosticism: Myth, Lifestyle, and Society in the School of Valentinus - Ismo Dunderberg - Google Books
If you look through "hylic" you end up seeing lines such as:
"Both hyle and the earthly essence are perishable and incapable of receiving salvation."
I am not saying that I, or anyone, has to agree with this. It is a confusing array of predetermination and substance.
According to the Valentinian system, the hylics do not have a soul and upon death will disappear forever. The Psychics are given a choice, their free-will, and could receive salvation. If they are good but do not gain gnosis, they are delivered to the Craftsman in a type of Paradise. If they are more hylic, they are destroyed. If they gain gnosis, they are pneumatic. The Pneumatics hear and understand completely the Father and truth, immediately.
Truth be told, I am psychic. I admit it. I did not immediately grasp the truth.
Beyond Gnosticism: Myth, Lifestyle, and Society in the School of Valentinus - Ismo Dunderberg - Google Books
If you look through "hylic" you end up seeing lines such as:
"Both hyle and the earthly essence are perishable and incapable of receiving salvation."
I am not saying that I, or anyone, has to agree with this. It is a confusing array of predetermination and substance.