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What evidence for God

bhaktajan

Active Member
There's no physical evidence for the existence of god, only a priori reasoning.

The logical arguments for the existence of God, while compelling to some, don't convince me that any of the current deities on the religious market are real.

Yes. But all 'top down' reasoning is the status quo!
We I attend school or a company sponsored forum . . .we adhere to the dias speakers' instructions.

Our cultivated degree of wise descernment is the very definition of intelligence [as in the very title of Hindu Scripture, 'Veda' aka, 'knowledge'].

The Vedas define intelligence as, 'The ability to descern and or descriminate' ie: The ability to descriminate between butter and cheese; oil and vinegar; water and poison.

The Vedas put forth that Vedic Knowledge is itself "priori reasoning" when it compares the "descending" knowledge of "learning who your real father is".

"Learning who your real father is" is the apex of priori reasoning. The Vedas say that each & every Catagory of Knowledge is always imparted from a (disciplic) succesion to a student, that later becomes the teacher.

The problem with scholars that do not claim to Know The real identity and position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is that they themselves were not yet formally introduced and granted an audience by a nuzzio that has connections . . .

yet, a police detective (or crime-lab technician) who needs to verify the identity of a culprit, has definitive & absolute proscribed indentifying means to swear truthfully to.

We are always beholding to superior experts for judgement in all cases.
 

wilsoncole

Active Member
Here's the question, though- how do we come about this "divine revelation"?
If a person can tell, with pinpoint accuracy, what will happen a hundred to two thousand years ahead of time, what would you call that?
If you're not brought up with some specific faith, then your values become placed on logic, science, reason. In the context you're describing it, "faith" is merely the ability to believe in something without any concrete evidence supporting it. How is that admirable?
Where did you get such a definition? It is quite erroneous.
You can call me wicked, faithless, nonbeliever, etc, but I tend to think that if there were some kind of omniscient creator God, and he wanted us to live a certain way, it seems he would make the true religion more obvious.
He has done so. Only so many people are not willing to listen or change anything about their miserable lives.
And if that religion were Christianity/ Judaism/ Islam/ etc, that it would be more easily discernable.
Sir, good people do not do bad things. That is what makes them good. Bad people do bad things. Jesus set the marker for the true religion when he said:
“By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit......Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].” (Matthew 7:16-20)
You can tell the good from the bad, the right from the wrong by what people DO, not by what they profess!
The problem arises when you, yourself cannot recognize the right from the wrong. In today's world, that line is quote blurry.
Because as it is, if you interpret the scriptures literally, they describe things that go against fundamental laws of nature; if you interpret the scriptures as symbolic, then there are any number of different ways you can interpret the text, and you get a ton of different sects.
Would you like to illustrate?
You're professing a very Calvinist point of view, that only those who can accept religion based solely on faith are worthy of entering heaven.
Why do you keep knocking faith? I wonder if you know that it has and can be credited with preserving the dignity and value of human life!
What can you give in place of that?


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
If a person can tell, with pinpoint accuracy, what will happen a hundred to two thousand years ahead of time, what would you call that?
Well, I suppose it would depend upon the HOW.
If they use technology, I would call it Sci-fi.
If they just somehow "know", I would call it fantasy.

Where did you get such a definition? It is quite erroneous.
Actually, it is spot on.
Of course, he likely sees no reason to dress the word up with window dressing and flowery language to justify faith.

He has done so. Only so many people are not willing to listen or change anything about their miserable lives.
Really?
So you see all the differing beliefs based on one source as the fault of the followers and not the teacher?

I wonder how many teachers would keep their jobs if they had such a failure rate....

Sir, good people do not do bad things. That is what makes them good. Bad people do bad things.
People do bad things for good reasons all the time.
Your arbitrarily making it all black and white is merely for your own personal justification.

Jesus set the marker for the true religion when he said:
“By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit......Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].” (Matthew 7:16-20)
Jesus set the marker for HIS followers and HIS followers only.
Your assuming that everyone has to follow it is merely your elitist ego shining through.

You can tell the good from the bad, the right from the wrong by what people DO, not by what they profess!
Even if they do evil things because their god told them to?

The problem arises when you, yourself cannot recognize the right from the wrong. In today's world, that line is quote blurry.
It is not nearly as blurry as you would like others to think it is.

Would you like to illustrate?
The 38,000 PLUS denominations of Christianity is a prime example.

Why do you keep knocking faith?
I do not answer for him...
That said...
"Faith is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up.
Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim.
In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes."
~Zed
I wonder if you know that it has and can be credited with preserving the dignity and value of human life!
I wonder if you know that it has and can be credited with destruction, death, and evil?

Cherry pick much?


What can you give in place of that?
Stop doing evil things because a voice in your head that you have named God told you to do it?

But perhaps that is just me...
 

wilsoncole

Active Member
thanks for playing

do not apply to imagination
does not apply to question #2

AND it does not have history or archeology to back up the large percent of fiction in its pages.
God hates lies and those who tell them. Fiction amounts to lies if taught as fact.
If you refuse to believe something just because you don't want to, can you factually claim they are lies or fiction?
Give us an example of something Biblical that you refuse to believe and then prove that it is fiction.
if anything one can say with certainty that the bible lacks historicity
What part of the Bible do you think is not historical? Remember, I already proved you to be wrong about the water cycle, Abraham, King David and Solomon.
as it was written to be read allegorically
By whom and for what purpose?
can you show me remote tribes in the world that are not from the levant, that have a simular god.
What in the world are you talking about? All of the other ancient tribes and nations were polytheistic.
This would show the same god is talking to everybody equally not just ancient hebrews and only ancient hebrews.
Polytheism does not allow for that.
no it is not, you misunderstand
wrong
ancient hebrews told the tales of the early bible orally for hundreds of years.
Make sure you have proof that can be checked out.
These people came from other semetic speaking cultures, orally bringing their ancient fables with them.
Which people and where did they come from?
If you were right the egyptians and sumerians would have the same religion as ancient hebrews. they do not, They had myths
The religion of the Hebrews was exclusive. No other nation had anything like it.
this is a known myth with 0 historicity
What is?
the creation story is %100 fiction probably taken from the sumerian myth who used a man named adamu
There was no Adamu. Therein lies your myth.
people spoke many languages before babel, this is a fact. it is fiction
I already proved that this is false. I guess I have to do it again:
The languages of today have been traced to their roots by professional linguists. They all go back to the one place mentioned in the Bible.
Their report:
The man who deciphered ancient hyroglyphics and pictorial writing and Oriental language scholar, Sir Henry Rawlinson:
“If we were to be guided by the mere intersection of linguistic paths, and independently of all reference to the Scriptural record, we should still be led to fix on the plains of Shinar, as the focus from which the various lines had radiated.”— The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britian and Ireland, London, 1855, Vol. 15, p. 232.Ge 11:2-9.
no this is false
ancient hebrews created a man god figure "god made man in our image"
this really isnt up for debate because it is so obvious.
ancient hebrews placed very little value on women, they would not have made their god a woman or even part woman. It shows in all their text.
Yet you have furnished no proof for any of this! Why is that?
go look at the sistine chapel ceiling, the early church wanted the painting to reflect their god figure how it was written. what you see is what you get
That place has nothing to do with the Bible or ancient languages nor people's attitude toward women.
yes invented or imagined the same way ancient hebrews imagined their created god.

you only believe in god because of the geographic location you were born, nothing more.
You still have no proof for any of that.
wrong again, scriptures have 0 historicity.
Do you mean there was no slavery in Egypt, no nation of Israel, no occupation of the Promised Land, no period of judges, no kings of Israel, no Jerusalem, no King Hezekiah, no Israelite/Assyrian war, no captivity in Babylon, no destruction of Babylon in a single night, no Babylonian conquest of Tyre, no Alexander the Great.....what in the world do you mean?
we know for a fact as we have writing going back 6000 years [that is before babel] and there was many different languages.
If that were fact, you would have proof. So far, you have none - zero!
really your pulling a YeC attitude, you might as well admit the world is flat and teh sun revolves around the earth at this point
The earth was not always in existence - that is a fact.
Uniformatarianism cannot be proven.
The bible is very clear a day is a day, now your switching text to poorly try to make reality out of fiction.
Are you very clear on that? A day is a day? Were things as bad as this in your grandfather's DAY?
the proper answer is no the earth was not created in 1 day and it is not 6000 years old
The Bible does not say that so you have nothing there.
exuses for biblical mistakes do not fly.
What "Biblical mistakes?"
there is little hope for you ever having a education that will have use or meaning as you choose to create a false reality and choose to ignore those who know much more then you.
You should stop your bragging about education because your writing, spelling, grammatical construction, etc, tells us that you are not an educated person.
man did not ever walk with dinosaurs, this is a fact you should get used to.
How do you know that?
man naver lived more then 120 years of age on average. To admit man lived 900 + years is a sad statement to show how primitive man still is to gold on to ancient beliefs that were ment to be read allegorically not EVER literally
This a poorly constructed statement that has no meaning. Check your spelling and grammar.
I feel sad knowing that you are not alone
You should be sad to learn that you have no idea what you're talking about.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Sir, good people do not do bad things. That is what makes them good. Bad people do bad things. Jesus set the marker for the true religion when he said:

Wilson


Good people do bad things if their minds are tainted with religion.

Just think of all the burning, stonings and wars carried out by all those people who were sure they were doing god's will. Not all of them were actually bad people.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Good people do bad things if their minds are tainted with religion.

Just think of all the burning, stonings and wars carried out by all those people who were sure they were doing god's will. Not all of them were actually bad people.


They were just along for the ride :D
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You should be sad to learn that you have no idea what you're talking about.

it is you wilsoncole who fights all of science and all of geology and all of biology.

man spoke many languages before the tower of babel. LOL
man never walked with dinosaurs ROFLOL
man was not created in 1 day
the earth was not created in 1 day to be habitable
there was never a global flood
there was a adamu as much as there was a adam

keep trying, your fighting progress not me
 

outhouse

Atheistically
This is more or less debatable. Though everything else I would be inclined to agree with :D

Its not up for debate among anyone in geology or any real science department.

noahs story can be traced with almost certainty to the euphrates flood in 2900 bc
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
This is more or less debatable. Though everything else I would be inclined to agree with :D

You should check out some of the global flood threads we have here.

You'll find scientific explanations as to how we know there was never a global flood.

The only debate comes from those who aren't intellectually mature enough to accept the science.

-Q
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Its not up for debate among anyone in geology or any real science department.

noahs story can be traced with almost certainty to the euphrates flood in 2900 bc

I wasn't referencing "Noah's" story.

Just scientific theory about how water came to Earth :D

You should check out some of the global flood threads we have here.

You'll find scientific explanations as to how we know there was never a global flood.

The only debate comes from those who aren't intellectually mature enough to accept the science.

-Q

Then you should use science to scientifically explain that you know anything :D
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Did you actually go read the Global Flood threads?

No, but I've read consistent theories on how water got to the Earth, and to be honest the world had to have been flooded in order for the "water" to embrace the Earth's gravitity.

Give me a link, I'll check it out :D

I believe I asked you a question, please oblige.

It's actually not debateable. The sediment layers don't lie.


You limit your mind to what you see.
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
No, but I've read consistent theories on how water got to the Earth, and to be honest the world had to have been flooded in order for the "water" to embrace the Earth's gravitity.

Give me a link, I'll check it out :D

I believe I asked you a question, please oblige.




You limit your mind to what you see.

This is just gibberish. In fact, it is a good example of the damage religious thinking does to the human intellect.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
This is just gibberish. In fact, it is a good example of the damage religious thinking does to the human intellect.

Do you even know what your talking about? :ignore:

It seems openmindedness escapes atheists as well.

Anyone with at least any consideration would of posted a link like I asked. But everyone seems to be having too much fun being a bully :D


+1

why does everyone look for sky daddy when they dont know or understand a natural proccess???? :shrug:

It must be because the "sky daddy" is part of it.

Though I would hardly consider belief in such a tyrant.

Because some people are just that desperate to stick their god somewhere.

It also seems some people are just desperate to seek security without gaining any formal knowledge of the topic at hand :p

If one would be as desperate as you speak, then the Opposition must be making such fabrications as well.
 
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