1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What does your Religion think about Gay and Transgender People?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Serpent Child, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    27,788
    Ratings:
    +13,348
    Religion:
    Germanic Folk Revival
    I'm a Catholic and I agree with this.
     
  2. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    571
    Ratings:
    +80
    Religion:
    Universal Protestant
    May be a trick question as A does not have any unique representation, could mean asexual, which could just reflect one's current mood, or the exact opposite "allies," whilst U and + are also unclearly defined. I prefer summation of the inverted F, "∑ⅎ" symbol, where ⅎ denotes anything not heterosexual.

    So for ∑ⅎ, they are outsiders, outside the church, outside the kingdom of God...

    1 Cor 6;9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…"

    1 Cor 5;12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

    ... and I don't know any, and probably never will as they are a tiny minority <1% mostly, unless one frequents the places where they hang out, which seems to be on internet forums quite a lot.
     
    #42 outlawState, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    22,696
    Ratings:
    +8,401
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    I have no issues nor do my practices exclude such. Its still dharma.
     
  4. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,006
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    Both transsexuals and asexuals can be heterosexual, though, those are different categories.
    I for example am a transmale, pansexual and asexual.
    In other words: I was born with female genitals, would feel much better in a male body, may find people of any sexual configuration attractive, and don't have much of a desire to actually do anything sexual with other people. Those categories don't exclude each other.

    There are even other categories which could be added which might say more about a person than those, e.g. whether they are dominant or submissive, or what kind of fetishes they have. In other words, all those things that you would probably count to "sexually immoral" while the persons in question might be completely heterosexual.

    So your summation doesn't seem quite appropriate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    571
    Ratings:
    +80
    Religion:
    Universal Protestant
    The only true type of transsexual is very rare and has a genetic abnormality at birth.

    Christianity does not recognize any type of "gender fluidity" of the sort you describe for genetically normal people. Weasel words in such situations do not add to the meaning or detract from the sin. Sex is what you are born with, not what you feel like.
     
  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    27,745
    Ratings:
    +12,029
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu

    In my version of Hinduism, its all basically irrelevant, as we look at soul, not individuality of this lifetime. So none of it would matter.
     
  7. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,006
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    That would be intersexuality, not transsexuality.

    That might be the position of your religion, but there have been scientific studies on transsexuals which show that it is most likely something genetic as well. It's not just what we feel like, but the way our brain is structured.

    At least that's the most likely explanation for the kind of transsexuality where one feels like being in the wrong body. And in one point I agree with you, it is quite rare.

    Mere transgenderism (i.e. not identifying with the cultural norms associated with one's sex) is often put into the same category, but it's much more common. And I certainly don't mind it - people should act as they want, independent of whether their behavior is considered typical for their sex or not.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,898
    Ratings:
    +7,874
    This is how it was explained to me.

    Pretty much. Basically, the best theory we have is that, for some reason, the brains of transsexuals are "bathed" in the womb in the hormones of the sex "opposite" their chromosomal sex. So, for example, you have a baby that's XX, chromosomally, but the baby's brain is hit with a male level of androgens (male hormones) in the womb, causing the brain to form as a male brain. The brain expects the body to be a certain way, but it isn't. It doesn't fit the "brain map". That makes the baby a transsexual male. This would be the cause of sex dysphoria in transsexuals. Hormones and/or surgeries are ways to align the body with the brain's expectations, so relieving the dysphoria. I know that taking male hormones relieves most of my dysphoria. I'm running on the correct "fuel".

    So it's a lot similar to phantom limb syndrome, where a person loses a limb but the neural connections are still there, so they can still "feel" the limb as if it's still there. A similar phenomenon has been recorded among transsexual men, called "phantom penis syndrome". ​
    ~ @Saint Frankenstein

    1. Why so much attention to male-to-female trans people?
    2. Why so much attention to male-to-female trans people?

    Just in case one doesn't work right.

    Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs. Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. ... In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and ...

    Christianity doesn't talk about gender, it talks about sex. It also doesn't differentiate between who is LGBTQIA. It just focuses on actions.

    Just a thought not a sermon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,898
    Ratings:
    +7,874
    How can a asexual be a heterosexual? Isn't asexually no physical attraction to either gender? If they were heterosexual, wouldn't that make them not asexual anymore?
     
  10. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    25,857
    Ratings:
    +10,058
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I believe you're thinking of transgender.

    Transgender people are people who have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned sex. Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another.
    Source: Wikipedia​

    But many Christians do.



    Not at all.

    People who have intersex conditions have anatomy that is not considered typically male or female. Most people with intersex conditions come to medical attention because doctors or parents notice something unusual about their bodies.

    [​IMG]


    In contrast, people who are transgendered have an internal experience of gender identity that is different from most people.

    Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.


    In spite of these similarities, these two groups should not be and cannot be thought of as one. The truth is that the vast majority of people with intersex conditions identify as male or female rather than transgender or transsexual. Thus, where all people who identify as transgender or transsexual experience problems with their gender identity, only a small portion of intersex people experience these problems.
    source

    .
     
    #50 Skwim, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,006
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    Sounds about right, that's what I was referring to in the second paragraph of my last comment.

    I additionally distinguished between transsexuality and transgenderism, but I should mention that the latter term is often also used for the former.
    I wouldn't assume it's what @outlawState meant by "genetic abnormality", I rather expect him to refer to intersexuality.

    Therefore:
    Why not? Intersexuality is (or can be) the result of "a genetic abnormality at birth."
    Technically, transsexuality probably as well (at least that's the current best scientific explanation), but I doubt @outlawState would know that, therefore this reply to him by me.

    Well, there's a difference between finding someone attractive (sexually and/or aesthetically) and having a desire to do something sexual with them.
    I must admit that in many cases these two categories will be difficult to distinguish. But technically they are different things.
     
    #51 Liu, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,898
    Ratings:
    +7,874
    :eek: I don't think I'll get not desiring to be with someone sexually. :p I remember when I came out as a gay woman and was still back and forth with understanding attraction and social "norms." Then I said to my mother at the time and shrugged, "Ma, maybe I just don't like either gender."

    She gave me this look like and shook her head, "No Carlita*" she laughed. "you like women, believe me."

    It is what it is.
     
  13. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,006
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    That's fine as well :) No need to comprehend it. I'm not sure I as an asexual understand it myself xD
    But anyway, there was a thread on asexuality and hetero-/homosexuality: Where do You Sit on the PURPLE-RED Scale OF Attraction?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    571
    Ratings:
    +80
    Religion:
    Universal Protestant
    Well, you could be right there. Trans... whatever. Who cares really? The point is that it is a verifiable medical abnormality that affects a very small minority of people.

    Not so. What many deluded souls who ignorantly profess themselves Christians in opposition to biblical teachings do is neither here nor there. There are many who aver that satanism has infiltrated the churches, and they would be right IMO, albeit I am not a first hand witness; but if I was ruler, I would close down many major denominations overnight, just like the JWs are now being closed down in Russia for charlatanism.
     
  15. outlawState

    outlawState Deism is dead

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    571
    Ratings:
    +80
    Religion:
    Universal Protestant
    Yes, I am sure the human brain is very ingenious at self-exculpation. The bible has a simpler term, "demon-possession." The gospel says that all men are sinners. What is meant by sinners can vary from deluded to certified insanity a la Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche.made it a life time habit to stick two fingers up at God. If that's what you do, you reap the consequences.

    Gender imbalance is a medical abnormality, which may result in physical abnormalities, or it may not. Of course Christianity does not talk about this in moral terms because it is a physical issue with physical causes.

    But those who have no medical genetic condition or visible biological condition but just a "feeling" that they would rather be someone else, or something else, other than the person who they were born as, are in my mind, per biblical teaching, suffering from obvious demonic influence.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,898
    Ratings:
    +7,874
    I want to ask you honestly before I reply seriously. Do you actually believe what you said is 100 percent true?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    27,788
    Ratings:
    +13,348
    Religion:
    Germanic Folk Revival
    Do you live on the Moon?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    25,857
    Ratings:
    +10,058
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Obviously you did. You're the one who cared enough to tell us, "The only true type of transsexual is . . . ."

    A medical abnormality? In what real sense is it "medical"?

    Oh, I get it. If a person believes in gender fluidity it automatically disqualifies them from being a Christian. Gotta say, you're one strange self-designated religious rule maker. How about if they snort snuff? Still a Christian or not?

    .
     
  19. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,514
    Ratings:
    +1,420
    Religion:
    Catholic
    In the words of Pope Francis, 'Who am I to judge.'
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    53,419
    Ratings:
    +17,597
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    That would be awesome being under the protection of Kali, like being under mob protection, but someone who makes the worst mobs look like a bunch clowns with cap guns.:D
    Actually it's an established fact there have been various ideas and concepts of transgender since ancient times, and a recently discovered grave suggest since our earliest days.
    I was just mentioning this to my mom the other day. Not only is there me, I've had strong suspicions about two of my nephews, one who could walk in heels better than my girlfriend at the time, and one who apparently has some pictures of him dressed up as a girl.
    Good thing. I was born with more of a female brain and I sure do not feel like a guy. Last time I tried to feel like I guy it ended with me being lucky enough to avoid jail despite quickly racking up a list a various crimes, drank so much I was lucky enough to catch myself craving a drink at work, and generally me just not caring about much of anything, and me trying to kill myself.
    Many things are statistically abnormal, but nobody cares. Left handed people are abnormal. So are geniuses. In America, I'm abnormal for having a conversational-level understanding of a second language. Having blonde or red hair is also an "abnormality." The same with blue eyes. "Medically," I'm abnormal because my senses are hyper-sensitive. My shins are also bowed (though that one does actually cause problems).
    To the most of the modern world, "abnormal" is not some sort of weird strange thing that is bad, it's just different from the norm. Even a statistical analysis of data can produce "abnormal" results.

    "Gender imbalance" isn't even a medical term. Maybe once, but not anymore.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...