What does the Qur 'an say about the Bible ?

[Muslimman]

Yes please share

Nowhere does Al-Qur'an accuse Christians of changing the written words of the Holy Books of the Jews and the Christians. It only accuses the People of the Book of "taharif" -- changing the meaning with their tongue, and keeping hidden other portions of scripture.

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues:
Surat-u Ali-Imran (3):78

That's not accurate.

2:79

فويل للذين يكتبون الكتاب بايديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله ليشتروا به ثمنا قليلا فويل لهم مما كتبت ايديهم وويل لهم مما يكسبون

Therefore woe be unto those who write the Book with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
​

Evidence That Islam Teaches That There Was Textual Corruption of The Christian and Jewish Scriptures

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's not accurate.

2:79

فويل للذين يكتبون الكتاب بايديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله ليشتروا به ثمنا قليلا فويل لهم مما كتبت ايديهم وويل لهم مما يكسبون

Therefore woe be unto those who write the Book with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
​

Evidence That Islam Teaches That There Was Textual Corruption of The Christian and Jewish Scriptures

"The book" in This verse is not the Torah or Injil. It is talking about another book, that they had written themselves, not the torah or injil which is with the people.

 

[danieldemol]

That's not accurate.

2:79

فويل للذين يكتبون الكتاب بايديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله ليشتروا به ثمنا قليلا فويل لهم مما كتبت ايديهم وويل لهم مما يكسبون

Therefore woe be unto those who write the Book with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
​

According to my understanding this verse refers to some uneducated people’s among the Jews, and not to Christians. The Quran itself does not use the word “Christians” in this verse, and it is by referring to textual contradictions between the Gospel and the Quran that the modern Muslim has surmised that the Gospel must be corrupted.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Oneness of God is paramount, it automatically makes race, creed, religion, ideology etc etc etc etc etc all irrelevant, null, nothing, inconsequential.

Oneness of God does not work because the proponent always favors a specific God and is willing to accept other gods in relation to the “original” and the differences are rejected. Does not really qualify as universal oneness.

IMO and in my experience (being passionate about all original religions), The Qur'an and inner understanding of Islam UNIFIES Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Manichaeism etc.

Most aren't wise enough to see though.

In other words, they do not share your viewpoint and are hence, unwise. The next natural step would be ?

 

[2ndpillar]

No, in Islamic theology the Torah, Psalms and Gospels are the revelations given to the respective prophets (Moses, David and Jesus), not the books that also take the same names but don't date back to their lifetimes (however great they are, they are more like Hadith). The Psalms of David are considered the most in-tact, even though they are largely inspired-and-prophetic-poetry.

Christians and Jews are considered people of the book, we hypothetically follow the same God but truth as it is, not all Jews, Christians or Muslims will go to heaven - it's not about rooting for the right football team, it's about God, integrity, faith, wisdom, gnosis. Hence why they are called "people of the book/scripture", they're both directly connected to many of the previous revelations even if they are not the revelations themselves. Like Zoroastrians, Christians and Jews have equal footing because they are close enough to the messages of God, as they originate from messages of God.

The Islamic idea of scripture and revelation, is like Jews with "oral Torah". The Qur'an is not a narrative account, it is literal transmissions that recount bits of history as parallel to different events in Muhammad's pbuh prophethood.

The messages from God Moses pbuh received throughout his lifetime is the true scripture, as with Jesus pbuh and any other prophet. In the Islamic view, we're the only ones who preserved the revelations themselves. But as I said, this does not discount the validity of Judaism or Christianity whatsoever.

Islam was originally meant to be against tribalism, in favor of true recognition of The Ultimate Reality (God) but history has distorted the perception of much of it, not the scriptures themselves.

Oneness of God is paramount, it automatically makes race, creed, religion, ideology etc etc etc etc etc all irrelevant, null, nothing, inconsequential.

IMO and in my experience (being passionate about all original religions), The Qur'an and inner understanding of Islam UNIFIES Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Manichaeism etc.

Most aren't wise enough to see though.

Don't you just love the Quran expression of "kill the infidels"

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

[Firemorphic]

Oneness of God does not work because the proponent always favors a specific God

What is a specific God? how do you identify a 'specific God'?
Islam identifies that the Ultimate Reality is a transcendent, self-revealing creator of all, that it has endless names but no images/face.

is willing to accept other gods in relation to the “original” and the differences are rejected. Does not really qualify as universal oneness.

Have you ever studied Advaita Vedanta?

In other words, they do not share your viewpoint and are hence, unwise. The next natural step would be ?

The fact that my statement you quote there completely slipped passed you shows exactly the point I was making.

 

[Muslimman]

"The book" in This verse is not the Torah or Injil. It is talking about another book, that they had written themselves, not the torah or injil which is with the people.

It's the book of the Jew that was claimed to be of divine origin. You can call it "the book".

According to my understanding this verse refers to some uneducated people’s among the Jews, and not to Christians. The Quran itself does not use the word “Christians” in this verse, and it is by referring to textual contradictions between the Gospel and the Quran that the modern Muslim has surmised that the Gospel must be corrupted.

The context deal with the Jews. Christians aren't involved here, except that they believe the OT is the word of God.

Don't you just love the Quran expression of "kill the infidels"

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding.

Grow up.
Islam News Room - Kill the Infidels?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Depends if you mean 'churchianity' or 'christianity' I suppose
People are sinners in need of forgiveness. True in the Old and New Testaments. David even wrote a spectacular fPsalm seeking forgiveness after his messy situation with the wife of another

Ellen, is there a partitcular example of words of Jesus you wonder about?

I don't wonder about the words of Jesus.

In acts 5:1-11, the killing of Ananias and Sapphira seems bizarre to me. People can say all they want to justify it, I don't care.
There are other places in the NT where Paul, or whoever the purported author is, seems really fire and brimstone (y). If that's really of God, fine, but that is not consistent with my own experience with God. I don't need to be taught by anyone who thinks themselves to be a Pastor.

 

[2ndpillar]

Grow up.
Islam News Room - Kill the Infidels?

So sorry, I should have said according to your translation, "kill the Infidels (in combat). Could you forward your translation to the Muslims in Africa who burn churches with people inside them, or is there a declared war that isn't publicized?

2.191 And kill them (in combat) wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you,

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's the book of the Jew that was claimed to be of divine origin. You can call it "the book".

Yes, it is the Book that the Jewish leaders who were living at the time of Muhammad had written. Not that the Torah. So, the Torah was never corrupted.

We cannot make up a Tefseer from ourselves, or even the opinion of scholars, if it has no basis in the Hadithes. The verses of Quran must be understood, based on the recorded traditions. With regards to 2:77-79, this is what the recorded traditions explain to us:


أُمِّيُّونَ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ الْكِتَـابَ إِلاَّ أَمَانِىَّ » [1] أنّ الاُمّي منسوب إلى اُمّه ، أي هو كما خرج من بطن اُمّه لا يقرأ ولا يكتب، «لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ الْكِتَـابَ» المنزّل من السماء ولا المكذّب به ولا يميزون بينهما « إِلاَّ أَمَانِىَّ » أي إلاّ أن يقرأ عليهم ويقال لهم : إنّ هذا كتاب اللّه وكلامه ، لا يعرفون إن قرئ من الكتاب خلاف مافيه . « وَ إِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّ يَظُنُّونَ » [2] أي ما يقرأ عليهم رؤساوهم من تكذيب محمّد صلى الله عليه و آله في نبوّته وإمامة علي عليه السلام سيّد عترته وهم يقلّدونهم مع أنّه محرّم عليهم تقليدهم . « فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَـابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَـذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُواْ بِهِى ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً » [3] . قال عليه السلام : قال اللّه تعالى : هذا القوم من اليهود كتبوا صفة زعموا أنّها صفة محمّد صلى الله عليه و آله ، وهي خلاف صفته ، وقالوا للمستضعفين منهم : هذه صفة النبيّ المبعوث في آخر الزمان ، أنّه طويل ، عظيم البدن والبطن

الدرّ المنظوم من كلام المعصوم - العاملي، علي بن محمد - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت


So, the Book, is about another Book, the Jews had written to refute claims of Muhammad. There is nothing in this verse about corruption of Torah.
It is like, if the Muslims, today, write another Book, in addition to the Quran, and claim it is divine in origin. It does not mean they corrupted the text of the Quran. I hope you know what I mean.

 

[danieldemol]

The context deal with the Jews. Christians aren't involved here, except that they believe the OT is the word of God.

Actually the context only deals with some people of little education amongst the Jews, it doesn’t deal with all of them and does not deal with literate Jews

From Yusuf Ali;
78 ‘And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.

79. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.’

As you can see from the context it is only referring to some “among them” ie not all Jews, and it refers to them as “illiterates” as contrasted with other verses which refer to literate Jews and Christians.

 

[1213]

...

Since the Qur'an supports these inspired writing should Muslims acknowledge the Torah, Psalms and Gospels as the Word of God and be guided by them ?

It is also said:

…Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah … …believe in Allah and His messengers. …
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
http://quran.com/4/171

If Muslims would believe what Quran says, they would believe what Jesus said.