What does the NT say about premarital sex?

[Humanistheart]

What does the NT say about premarital sex? Can anyone provide verses concerning this?

 

[dust1n]

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21, KJV)

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:18-20, KJV)

 

[Humanistheart]

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21, KJV)

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:18-20, KJV)

Wow, excellent references and quite speedy. Frubaled

 

[dust1n]

Wow, excellent references and quite speedy. Frubaled

Sweet.

 

[Humanistheart]

Are there any passages where jesus speaks to this topic? Or are all the references made by others?

 

[dust1n]

The majority of passages I can find on the topic seem to be written by Paul in his letters to the church, but I did find these two in Revelations coming from Jesus.

Jesus told the church at Pergamum that He had a few things against them, including the fact that they held to the doctrines of someone who led God's people to commit fornication:

"But I [Jesus] have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." (Revelation 2:14, KJV)​

Jesus told the church at Thyatira that He had a few things against them, including the fact that they were putting up with someone who led them into fornication and idolatry:

"Notwithstanding I [Jesus] have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." (Revelation 2:20, KJV)​

 

[dust1n]

But the thing I am finding here is the debate as to whether or not 'fornication' includes 'premarital sex', so I could be helping you find your answer, or I could be completely irrelevant depending on that particular issue.

 

[Humanistheart]

The majority of passages I can find on the topic seem to be written by Paul in his letters to the church, but I did find these two in Revelations coming from Jesus.

Jesus told the church at Pergamum that He had a few things against them, including the fact that they held to the doctrines of someone who led God's people to commit fornication:

"But I [Jesus] have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." (Revelation 2:14, KJV)
​

Jesus told the church at Thyatira that He had a few things against them, including the fact that they were putting up with someone who led them into fornication and idolatry:

"Notwithstanding I [Jesus] have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." (Revelation 2:20, KJV)
​

How did jesus do this in revelation? Ithought he was dead at that point (or ressurected from a christian persepctive)?

 

[Humanistheart]

But the thing I am finding here is the debate as to whether or not 'fornication' includes 'premarital sex', so I could be helping you find your answer, or I could be completely irrelevant depending on that particular issue.

Oh, what kind of debate?

 

[dust1n]

I was able to find this free uncopywrited information.


Question:

"Fornication in the Bible seems to refer to adultery, incest, homosexuality, and bestiality. I don't see anyone being called a sinner for engaging in premarital sex."

Answer:

In Bible translations and Bible commentaries and so on, when they talk about premarital sex they often refer to it as "fornication." Here's what the word "fornication" means:

• "Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married to each other." (West's Encyclopedia of American Law )
• "1. Noun - Unlawful sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried person; the act of such illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman as does not by law amount to adultery." (The People's Dictionary )
• "1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other." (Dictionary.com Unabridged )
• "Fornication: Sexual intercourse that is "illicit", outside of marriage." (Medical Dictionary )
• "fornication n. sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other." (Law Dictionary )
• " VIRGINIA BEACH -- A lawsuit that accuses a Virginia Beach man of intentionally passing herpes to his lover may have implications for state law on fornication between unmarried adults.
  Attorneys for a woman identified only as Jane Doe filed suit this month in Circuit Court, claiming that a Virginia Beach man gave the woman genital herpes after the two began having sexual relations in April ." (SUIT SAYING MAN SPREAD HERPES COULD AFFECT FORNICATION LAW )
• "Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
  Pronunciation: \for-ne-'ka-shen\
  Function: noun
  Date: 14th century
  : consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "NOUN: Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.
  WORD HISTORY: The word fornication had a lowly beginning suitable to what has long been the low moral status of the act to which it refers. The Latin word fornix, from which fornicti, the ancestor of fornication, is derived, meant "a vault, an arch." The term also referred to a vaulted cellar or similar place where prostitutes plied their trade. This sense of fornix in Late Latin yielded the verb fornicr, "to commit fornication," from which is derived fornicti, "whoredom, fornication." Our word is first recorded in Middle English about 1303." (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. , emphasis added)
• "c.1300, from O.Fr. fornication, from L.L. fornicationem (nom. fornicatio), from fornicari "fornicate," from L. fornix (gen. fornicis) "brothel," originally "arch, vaulted chamber" (Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings), from fornus "oven of arched or domed shape." Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery." (Online Etymology Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "The Latin verb fornicare, which is the source of English fornicate and fornication, is derived from the noun fornix, 'arch, vault, arched basement'. Because brothels were sometimes established in the Roman vaults, fornix itself took on the sense 'brothel' and the derived verb fornicare was used with much the same meaning as modern English fornicate. The noun fornication appears in English at the beginning of the fourteenth century, some two hundred and fifty years before the verb fornicate. In 1303 Robert Mannyng of Brunne in his penitential manual Handlyng Synne did his best to define the noun with the utmost discretion, and though his fastidiousness resulted in some vagueness it is dispelled in part by the context: "'Fornycacyoun' [ys], whan two vnweddyde haue mysdoun." ("Fornication" is when two unmarried people have done wrong.)" (The Merriam-Webster new book of word histories, p.182-183 , emphasis added)

So "fornication" refers to voluntary sex outside of marriage, and the earliest recorded use of this word in English (with the meaning of premarital sex) was in the early 14th century, around 1303.

 

[dust1n]

In the New Testament, the word "fornication" is translated from the Greek word porneia. Here's how Greek dictionaries and Bible commentaries define this word:

• "porneia por-ni'-ah from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication." (Strong's Greek Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "porneia:
  1) illicit sexual intercourse
  1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
  1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
  1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar_10:11,Mar_10:12
  2) metaphorically the worship of idols
  2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols" (Thayer's Greek Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "porneia ... Fornication, lewdness, or any sexual sin" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.1201, emphasis added)
• "Fornication. Chastity was the exception instead of the rule among Gentiles at this period." (People's New Testament commentary , Acts 15:20, emphasis added)
• "and from fornication--The characteristic sin of heathendom, unblushingly practiced by all ranks and classes, and the indulgence of which on the part of the Gentile converts would to Jews, whose Scriptures branded it as an abomination of the heathen, proclaim them to be yet joined to their old idols." (Jamieson, Fausset, Brown commentary , Acts 15:20, emphasis added)
• "Fornication, all uncleanness of every kind was prohibited; for πορνεια [porneia] not only means fornication, but adultery, incestuous mixtures, and especially the prostitution which was so common at the idol temples, viz. in Cyprus, at the worship of Venus; and the shocking disorders exhibited in the Bacchanalia, Lupercalia, and several others." (Clarke's commentary, from http://www.layhands.com/zOffsiteLink.jpg[/IMG]]e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge, Acts 15:20, emphasis added)
• "and from fornication; not spiritual fornication or idolatry, but fornication taken in a literal sense, for the carnal copulation of one single person with another" (Gill's commentary , Acts 15:20, emphasis added)
• "Fornication - Hebrew: zanah / Greek: porneia
  Fornication is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other. Adultery is one type of fornication.
  In every form, fornication was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law among God's people, the Israelites (Lev. 21:9; 19:29; Deut. 22:20-11, 23-29; 23:18; Ex. 22:16). (See ADULTERY.)
  Fornication is also mentioned many times in the New Testament (Matt. 5:32; 19:9; John 8:41; Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; Rom. 1:29; 1 Cor 5:1, 6:13, 18, 7:2; 10:8; 2 Cor 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; Jude 1:7; Rev. 2:14, 20-21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2,4).
  "The Greek word for 'fornication' (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. ...In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28)." (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
  The word "fornication" is sometimes used in a symbolic sense in the Bible, for example, meaning a forsaking of God or a following after idols (Isa. 1:2; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 1:2; 2:1-5; Jer. 3:8-9)." (christiananswers.net , emphasis added)

So the Greek word porneia can mean adultery (which is sex outside of marriage), incest (which is sex outside of marriage), prostitution (which is sex outside of marriage), fornication (which is sex outside of marriage), etc., depending on the context.

What it boils down to is that sex outside of marriage is always a sin, whether it's adultery, incest, prostitution, fornication, etc.

 

[dust1n]

How did jesus do this in revelation? Ithought he was dead at that point (or ressurected from a christian persepctive)?

No idea. I am not at all intelligent with the Bible, the information I looked up seem to suggest this, I am taking their particular word it, but I will see what else I can find.

Strange we are two atheists in the Christian forum, being the only ones discussing this issue so far.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Are there any passages where jesus speaks to this topic? Or are all the references made by others?

This is were Jesus says It is better not to have Sex at all.

Matthew 19:3-12 (New International Version)

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

 

[Humanistheart]

This is were Jesus says It is better not to have Sex at all.

Matthew 19:3-12 (New International Version)

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Interesting. I read this though as only applying to marriage v devorce. Is this relevant to say, a man who has sex with a woman before marriage?

 

[Humanistheart]

I was able to find this free uncopywrited information.


Question:

"Fornication in the Bible seems to refer to adultery, incest, homosexuality, and bestiality. I don't see anyone being called a sinner for engaging in premarital sex."

Answer:


In Bible translations and Bible commentaries and so on, when they talk about premarital sex they often refer to it as "fornication." Here's what the word "fornication" means:

• "Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married to each other." (West's Encyclopedia of American Law )
• "1. Noun - Unlawful sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried person; the act of such illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman as does not by law amount to adultery." (The People's Dictionary )
• "1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other." (Dictionary.com Unabridged )
• "Fornication: Sexual intercourse that is "illicit", outside of marriage." (Medical Dictionary )
• "fornication n. sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other." (Law Dictionary )
• " VIRGINIA BEACH -- A lawsuit that accuses a Virginia Beach man of intentionally passing herpes to his lover may have implications for state law on fornication between unmarried adults.
  Attorneys for a woman identified only as Jane Doe filed suit this month in Circuit Court, claiming that a Virginia Beach man gave the woman genital herpes after the two began having sexual relations in April ." (SUIT SAYING MAN SPREAD HERPES COULD AFFECT FORNICATION LAW )
• "Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
  Pronunciation: \for-ne-'ka-shen\
  Function: noun
  Date: 14th century
  : consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "NOUN: Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.
  WORD HISTORY: The word fornication had a lowly beginning suitable to what has long been the low moral status of the act to which it refers. The Latin word fornix, from which fornicti, the ancestor of fornication, is derived, meant "a vault, an arch." The term also referred to a vaulted cellar or similar place where prostitutes plied their trade. This sense of fornix in Late Latin yielded the verb fornicr, "to commit fornication," from which is derived fornicti, "whoredom, fornication." Our word is first recorded in Middle English about 1303." (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. , emphasis added)
• "c.1300, from O.Fr. fornication, from L.L. fornicationem (nom. fornicatio), from fornicari "fornicate," from L. fornix (gen. fornicis) "brothel," originally "arch, vaulted chamber" (Roman prostitutes commonly solicited from under the arches of certain buildings), from fornus "oven of arched or domed shape." Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery." (Online Etymology Dictionary , emphasis added)
• "The Latin verb fornicare, which is the source of English fornicate and fornication, is derived from the noun fornix, 'arch, vault, arched basement'. Because brothels were sometimes established in the Roman vaults, fornix itself took on the sense 'brothel' and the derived verb fornicare was used with much the same meaning as modern English fornicate. The noun fornication appears in English at the beginning of the fourteenth century, some two hundred and fifty years before the verb fornicate. In 1303 Robert Mannyng of Brunne in his penitential manual Handlyng Synne did his best to define the noun with the utmost discretion, and though his fastidiousness resulted in some vagueness it is dispelled in part by the context: "'Fornycacyoun' [ys], whan two vnweddyde haue mysdoun." ("Fornication" is when two unmarried people have done wrong.)" (The Merriam-Webster new book of word histories, p.182-183 , emphasis added)

So "fornication" refers to voluntary sex outside of marriage, and the earliest recorded use of this word in English (with the meaning of premarital sex) was in the early 14th century, around 1303.

So the debate over premarital sex vs fornication is a matter of definition?

 

[Humanistheart]

No idea. I am not at all intelligent with the Bible, the information I looked up seem to suggest this, I am taking their particular word it, but I will see what else I can find.

Strange we are two atheists in the Christian forum, being the only ones discussing this issue so far.

Perhaps the christians will comment later on tonight?

 

[dust1n]

So the debate over premarital sex vs fornication is a matter of definition?

Well.. in terms of defining what Jesus was actually hinting out. There words 'premarital sex' don't seem to appear in the Bible. But if Jesus was including 'premarital sex' in his term 'fornication', then it will make all the difference in the world (to a Christian.)

 

[dust1n]

Perhaps the christians will comment later on tonight?

Well. I think that they are probably going to know a great deal more about the subject than myself.

 

[Humanistheart]

Well.. in terms of defining what Jesus was actually hinting out. There words 'premarital sex' don't seem to appear in the Bible. But if Jesus was including 'premarital sex' in his term 'fornication', then it will make all the difference in the world (to a Christian.)

Yes, I could see that making a huge difference. So it comes down to what acts are included under fornication?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Interesting. I read this though as only applying to marriage v devorce. Is this relevant to say, a man who has sex with a woman before marriage?

I would say the teaching of verse 11-12

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Being celibate is best. The best christians are those who renounce all sex and live the way Christ lived.