What does the Day of Resurrection & the Day of Judgement mean to you?

[loverofhumanity]

For me the Day of Resurrection & the Day of Judgement means the end of unrighteousness and evil and the win for truth and love.

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

What if..... when Christ returned you rejected Him? Would that then be yourself judging yourself to not be a true believer in Jesus after being tested?

My understanding is that the Day of Judgement is when people’s beliefs will be tested by God asking themselves to believe in something new and that will be a very sore test for traditionalists

 

[leov]

How will you judge yourself? By what criteria.

It is role of Christ within me. I would learn good end evil and choose good. That is also means agape condition of the Golden Rule at work,

 

[Samantha Rinne]

These terms are very mystical or spiritual and always fascinated me because explanations offered just seemed too superstitious. I believe that most interpretations of these two very important terms needs clarification.

Most think these days are days of dread, anything but a normal day. How are we to know it is the Day of Resurrection or Judgement without superstitious interpretations? Could these Days pass us by without knowing.

“The Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event” (The Bab)

Exploring further the meanings of resurrection I found these words - Synonyms: reanimation, rebirth, regeneration, rejuvenation, rejuvenescence, renewal, resurgence, resuscitation, revitalization, revival, revivification.

Now looking at the different meanings I can think it could be a Day of the renewal of religion. And why not?


Could we be living in these Days of Judgement and Resurrection now without knowing it? What do you think might be being resurrected? Science? I said religion but that’s just my opinion.

How are we judged? If God gave us free will to believe or disbelieve then judging us for not believing isn’t that taking away our free will to disbelieve? Or is it us who judge ourselves by our acceptance or denial of whatever God may offer to us? One man may be a liar another truthful so is it our actions that judge us to be either sinner or saint?

With any hope, an end to this world. The way the world works, I never seem to make it out ahead, whether from eventually dealing with rent and land taxes, having even the lowest phone bills seem to be more per month than I possibly need, to constantly being nagged to work to make something in this life, when honestly all I want to do is live quietly, write a book, and find someone to be at my side after everything.

I think too many people are against Jesus for they fear he will judge them. I don't think the Christ would judge anyone who sincerely wants to be at his side, but those who would kill and steal others for fear of their judgement are far more likely to be judged. I think the specifics of belief are irrelevant, it's whether or not you do God's will. And there's pretty specific standards of that.

God Hates Wicked People - Tim Challies

God also hates the wicked because their wickedness is expressed in ways that harm the people he has created in his image. Because sinful people cannot storm the gates of heaven to dethrone and destroy God himself, they turn on what is dearest to him and nearest to his image. And so they act out their wickedness against other people. They hurt them, harm them, main them, kill them.

Finally, God hates the wicked because their wickedness is expressed particularly against God’s elect. Wicked people turn their fury against God’s people, mocking them, persecuting them, putting them to death.
.

On the other hand, we all have hope of redemption. If we take it.

We will all face judgment and we will all approach that judgment with a long record of wicked thoughts and wicked deeds. Yet some will be welcomed by God into his everlasting kingdom. This will be not be on the basis of any righteousness we have earned, but only on the basis of the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

A good start is not trying to hurt other people, even though this alone isn't enough for salvation.

The other thing to remember, is that this probably won't be a perfect world with no struggles, only a new world with Christ as ruler. You say, "But I don't want Christ to rule me! I want to live my own life." Yes, but unfortunately, you've appointed wicked tenants to govern that world. Serving Christ is freedom, these tenants will always steal and kill from you.

modern interpretation of the parable of the wicked tenants? | Yahoo Answers

modern interpretation of the parable of the wicked tenants?

Here's an idea:

Modern America, now full of those who embrace the state, dependence on the ruling class, big government, and even totalitarianism (look it up: it means government that is involved in the totality of life) - that's the wicked tenants.

The founding fathers who believed in independence, liberty from oppressive governments, and limitations on the power of government - that's the landowner.

Pick anybody you want, if it's a skit you're doing, to represent those who the landowners send to collect the rent. It could be dreams in the minds of modern statist leaders - of both the leading parties in the US - since both are substantially statist. It could be modern anti-statists such as Robert P. Murphy, Peter Schiff, Thomas J. DiLorenzo, Thomas E. Woods, or even earlier examples like Ayn Rand or Henry Hazlitt or Albert Jay Nock or Ludwig von Mises.

Have them sending warnings, standing against the erosion of liberties (sponsored by both Democrat and Republican, since at least the Lincoln years). Have them illustrate how the country is slowly giving up its liberties in exchange for a larger and more invasive government - all that the founding fathers had given their lives to avoid.

God calls us not to bear under the yoke of these landlords, but to live in righteousness and truth. To own your dreams, even if they fail, to not let others decide their dreams are better.

Lastly, the possibility exists that when Jesus comes again, he is very much someone you don't want. Think about all that crowd screaming "crucify him! crucify him!" for Jesus. Got that picture? Now how about all those equally rabid people saying "impeach! impeach!" for Trump. This is not to say that Trump is Jesus, but if he were, you've rejected and condemned him in the same exact way.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If the "Day of Resurrection" actually came to pass, then from what I have heard, it would be a time of much trial and tribulation, danger, pain and suffering for a great many - myself included. I am a nonbeliever. Always have been, and always will be. And I honestly hold to the idea that if Jesus were resurrected, and did something ridiculous like carry all the believers off to their coveted and boasted-of "reward," then I'd like to think I will still be down here during any coming trials, helping the people that are left try to make through as best we can, and trying to talk all the others like me into banding together to face the problems God will be putting in our way. If there is no hope, then fine... I would still refuse to worship the pieces of crap that God and Jesus are to be represented as in these types of stories and premonitions.

And upon my passing, if there is a "Day of Judgment," I have always stated that I would petition my "judge" to destroy me instead of casting me into eternal punishment. If the judge refuses, then I will take it as confirmation of my belief that God and his entourage are basically evil from the perspective of a human. That they do not have human best-interests in mind, do not care about us individually as has been touted so often, and that they are, indeed, bent on causing suffering and destroying things, as much as they supposedly wished to create. And in that confirmation I will understand that my demise could not have been avoided - which will provide no small amount of satisfaction.

Of course, this is provided that God exists, and that either of these things are "true." I don't believe in any of it. So it basically means nothing to me. It may come to mean something if any of it is proven, or actually comes to pass... but I truly believe the chance of that happening to be precisely zero.

 

[Trailblazer]

With any hope, an end to this world. The way the world works, I never seem to make it out ahead, whether from eventually dealing with rent and land taxes, having even the lowest phone bills seem to be more per month than I possibly need, to constantly being nagged to work to make something in this life, when honestly all I want to do is live quietly, write a book, and find someone to be at my side after everything.

Tell me about it. This material world existence is not heaven by any means, and it is more difficult for some of us than for others. That does not seem fair, but that is the way it is. I hope things get better for you.

I do not believe that this world is going to come to an end, I believe this is the beginning of a new age, as I just explained on the other thread:

#690 Trailblazer, 15 minutes ago

 

[URAVIP2ME]

These terms are very mystical or spiritual and always fascinated me because explanations offered just seemed too superstitious. I believe that most interpretations of these two very important terms needs clarification.
Most think these days are days of dread, anything but a normal day. How are we to know it is the Day of Resurrection or Judgement without superstitious interpretations? Could these Days pass us by without knowing.
“The Day of Resurrection is a day on which the sun riseth and setteth like unto any other day. How oft hath the Day of Resurrection dawned, and the people of the land where it occurred did not learn of the event” (The Bab)
Exploring further the meanings of resurrection I found these words - Synonyms: reanimation, rebirth, regeneration, rejuvenation, rejuvenescence, renewal, resurgence, resuscitation, revitalization, revival, revivification.
Now looking at the different meanings I can think it could be a Day of the renewal of religion. And why not?
Could we be living in these Days of Judgement and Resurrection now without knowing it? What do you think might be being resurrected? Science? I said religion but that’s just my opinion.
How are we judged? If God gave us free will to believe or disbelieve then judging us for not believing isn’t that taking away our free will to disbelieve? Or is it us who judge ourselves by our acceptance or denial of whatever God may offer to us? One man may be a liar another truthful so is it our actions that judge us to be either sinner or saint?

I think we are nearing the Days of Judgement on Earth, followed by Resurrection Day.
When I say ' days or day of judgement ' I am referring to Jesus separating living people one from another.
Righteous or upright humble people favorably judged as being at his right hand of favor.
The haughty people being placed at his left hand of adverse judgement. ( Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 )
The humble meek people can remain alive on Earth, and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming millennial reign over Earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This takes all takes place before or at the start of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins.
Then, during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth is what is Resurrection Day.
Those who are resurrected to Heaven (holy ones / saints) they have a first or earlier resurrection and will be in Heaven.
Then the majority of dead mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth.
This is why the Bible speaks of a future resurrection time saying, ' there will be ' a resurrection..... Acts 24:15

 

[Trailblazer]

If the "Day of Resurrection" actually came to pass, then from what I have heard, it would be a time of much trial and tribulation, danger, pain and suffering for a great many - myself included.

And upon my passing, if there is a "Day of Judgment," I have always stated that I would petition my "judge" to destroy me instead of casting me into eternal punishment. If the judge refuses, then I will take it as confirmation of my belief that God and his entourage are basically evil from the perspective of a human.

I do not believe that you will have to worry about any of that, but that is because I am a Baha'i, and we do not believe what most Christians believe. We believe in the Bible, but we interpret it differently than Christians.

I certainly do not blame you for being an atheist. As I have always said, the Bible is the reason for most atheists. I could never have believed in God if I had not stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith, which makes complete logical sense to me. Luckily, I had no Christian upbringing so I had no confirmation bias against religion.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Tell me about it. This material world existence is not heaven by any means, and it is more difficult for some of us than for others. That does not seem fair, but that is the way it is. I hope things get better for you.
I do not believe that this world is going to come to an end, I believe this is the beginning of a new age, as I just explained on the other thread:
#690 Trailblazer, 15 minutes ago

I agree this material world of existence is Not Heaven.
Heaven is a calling for people like those of Luke 22:28-30.
They have a first or earlier resurrection than the rest of mankind - Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
So, those Not called to heavenly life are called to become part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth.
Not a ruined Earth because first God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth as per Revelation 11:18 B
So, just as originally offered to Adam and Eve was the opportunity to live forever on Earth, everlasting life on Earth.
This eternal life on Earth is what is offered to the majority of mankind.
Those who have a favorable judgement at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33, 37,40 - can remain alive on Earth and become part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
So, if you like living here on Earth and want to live on a beautified paradisical Earth, then you are being called to live forever right here on planet Earth when conditions here will be as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

For me the Day of Resurrection & the Day of Judgement means the end of unrighteousness and evil and the win for truth and love.
This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Yes, the living haughty ones of Matthew 25:31-33 will go away just as it says at Psalms 37:9-11.
Those judged with adverse judgement are classed with the wicked who will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7
The ' eternal punishment ' of being 'destroyed forever', or as 2 Peter 3:9 says they will ' perish ' ( be destroyed ).
The humble meek people are the ones who will inherit the Earth.
Not a ruined Earth but a beautiful paradisical Earth as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
This is when even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
No one will say, ' I am sick....' as per Isaiah 33:24.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Awesome!
I think paradise could also mean nearness to or belief in God and hell could be to be far away or disbelieve in Him.

Basically, Biblical paradise is park-like or garden-like. Garden/park-like as the Garden of Eden was a paradise.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
I say this because Jesus and the OT teach sleep in death:
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
When the King James translated the world Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in biblical hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever.
This is also why Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be: destroyed forever.
God has Not abandoned His original purpose to have the whole Earth become a Garden of Eden.
Satan has thrown a temporary monkey wrench into God's purpose, but through Christ there will be coming ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
This is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us, and Jesus will bring healing benefits to Earth for us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To me it means what Dr. John E. Esslemont describes in his book….
He says it so well, so no need for me to reinvent the wheel.
As he says, the Day of Judgment is also the Day of Resurrection..................

I find the ' day of judgement ' as found at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33, 37,40 is among living people on Earth.
Whereas, the Day of Resurrection is for the dead and is during Jesus' coming 'millennium-long day' of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find the ' day of judgement ' as found at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33, 37,40 is among living people on Earth.
Whereas, the Day of Resurrection is for the dead and is during Jesus' coming 'millennium-long day' of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

I believe that the Day of Judgment is the same day as the Day of Resurrection and I believe that both are for people living on earth. I cannot say for sure what is happening in heaven because I do not know, but I think there is probably a parallel process occurring in heaven.

Christ spoke much in parables about a great Day of Judgment when “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father … and … shall reward every man according to his works” (Matt. xvi, 27). He compares this Day to the time of harvest, when the tares are burned and the wheat gathered into barns:—

… so shall it be in the end of this world [consummation of the age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.—Matt. xiii, 40–43. ​

The Day of Judgment

I believe that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ, thus He was the return of the Son of man who came in the glory of his Father. I believe that He will reward everyone according to his works and He will separate the wheat from the tares, and that the wheat are those who have recognized Baha’u’llah.

I believe that the Day of Judgment is the same day as the Day of Resurrection because we are “spiritually resurrected” in the Day of Judgment, which is when Christ returns. Baha'is do not believe that resurrection is a resurrection of the physical body from the grave but rather it is the birth of the believer to spiritual life. The grave from which the true believer arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God and the sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which he found himself before the return of Christ.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With any hope, an end to this world. The way the world works, I never seem to make it out ahead, whether from eventually dealing with rent and land taxes, having even the lowest phone bills seem to be more per month than I possibly need, to constantly being nagged to work to make something in this life, when honestly all I want to do is live quietly, write a book, and find someone to be at my side after everything.

I think too many people are against Jesus for they fear he will judge them. I don't think the Christ would judge anyone who sincerely wants to be at his side, but those who would kill and steal others for fear of their judgement are far more likely to be judged. I think the specifics of belief are irrelevant, it's whether or not you do God's will. And there's pretty specific standards of that.

God Hates Wicked People - Tim Challies



On the other hand, we all have hope of redemption. If we take it.



A good start is not trying to hurt other people, even though this alone isn't enough for salvation.

The other thing to remember, is that this probably won't be a perfect world with no struggles, only a new world with Christ as ruler. You say, "But I don't want Christ to rule me! I want to live my own life." Yes, but unfortunately, you've appointed wicked tenants to govern that world. Serving Christ is freedom, these tenants will always steal and kill from you.

modern interpretation of the parable of the wicked tenants? | Yahoo Answers



God calls us not to bear under the yoke of these landlords, but to live in righteousness and truth. To own your dreams, even if they fail, to not let others decide their dreams are better.

Lastly, the possibility exists that when Jesus comes again, he is very much someone you don't want. Think about all that crowd screaming "crucify him! crucify him!" for Jesus. Got that picture? Now how about all those equally rabid people saying "impeach! impeach!" for Trump. This is not to say that Trump is Jesus, but if he were, you've rejected and condemned him in the same exact way.

Hi Samantha. You had a lot of true and beautiful things to say. I believe God is a God of love foremost and that He doesn’t want to judge us and loves all.

Even he has given us material gifts like the sciences which have improved our quality of life so He wants us to be happy and live rich and meaningful lives. I think the second coming will be particularly testing for Christians because God I belive will bring many new things which traditionalists will not want. ‘I will make all things new’ But doing no harm to others is a very good way to live.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Tell me about it. This material world existence is not heaven by any means, and it is more difficult for some of us than for others. That does not seem fair, but that is the way it is. I hope things get better for you.

I do not believe that this world is going to come to an end, I believe this is the beginning of a new age, as I just explained on the other thread:

#690 Trailblazer, 15 minutes ago

Well, I believe this is conceivably a way of interpreting a New Earth. New rules, and those in power levying taxes, starting wars, etc, will become a thing of the past. The problem is, they want to take over, and you would not like the result.

There is a creepy airport in Denver that apparently has a time capsule to the New World Order, and many murals depicting some planned genocide followed by some crackpots' idea of utopia.

Bottom line, you can either have Jesus's era of peace. Or the NWO can decide to kill off 90% of the people.

Though I suppose it's possible event B leads to event A, it is more likely that someone deliberately plotting to cull all of humanity will also find it impossible to live with each other.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I believe this is conceivably a way of interpreting a New Earth. New rules, and those in power levying taxes, starting wars, etc, will become a thing of the past. The problem is, they want to take over, and you would not like the result.

Who are they?

Bottom line, you can either have Jesus's era of peace. Or the NWO can decide to kill off 90% of the people.

How do you think Jesus's era of peace is going to come to fruition?
What do you mean by NWO? Who are they?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think we are nearing the Days of Judgement on Earth, followed by Resurrection Day.
When I say ' days or day of judgement ' I am referring to Jesus separating living people one from another.
Righteous or upright humble people favorably judged as being at his right hand of favor.
The haughty people being placed at his left hand of adverse judgement. ( Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 )
The humble meek people can remain alive on Earth, and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming millennial reign over Earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This takes all takes place before or at the start of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins.
Then, during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth is what is Resurrection Day.
Those who are resurrected to Heaven (holy ones / saints) they have a first or earlier resurrection and will be in Heaven.
Then the majority of dead mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth.
This is why the Bible speaks of a future resurrection time saying, ' there will be ' a resurrection..... Acts 24:15

Thanks for your enlightening post. A lot of what you say makes sense to me and I mostly agree but just understand a couple of things differently.

To me the resurrection of the dead means to be resurrected from the death of unbelief to the life of faith for Christ when He said to one of His disciples ‘let the dead bury the dead’ meant for the spiritually dead to bury the physically dead so the term death and dead in the Gospels often refers to spiritual death. That is my understanding from the way Christ explained in the passage - Luke 9:60


King James Bible
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury the dead but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

New Living Translation
But Jesus told him, “Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God.

Another terminology used by Christ is ‘sheep and goats’. We are not sheep or goats so what will be separated then? To me it is saying that those who reject Christ’s return will be viewed as goats or unbelievers while those who accept Him in His new Name will become His new sheep or true believers.

 

[blü 2]

These terms are very mystical or spiritual and always fascinated me because explanations offered just seemed too superstitious. I believe that most interpretations of these two very important terms needs clarification.

"The Day of Resurrection" and "The Day of Judgment" are ideas from a particular culture, in this case the Greek influence on Christianity. If you read eg the >Myth of Er<, you'll get the idea ─ death, soul, judgment, consequence ─ whereas if you read the bible, you'll find it silent, or at best much vaguer, on all of those points.

Most think these days are days of dread, anything but a normal day.

No doubt you're right; but it remains the case that neither idea will withstand interrogation. Is the resurrection bodily or spiritual? How can there be any doubt which is correct? If there's such a thing as a soul, how does it exist, know, experience, give a dang about anything, without senses or the biochemistry of emotion? Who says so, and on the basis of what evidence?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is the resurrection bodily or spiritual? How can there be any doubt which is correct? If there's such a thing as a soul, how does it exist, know, experience, give a dang about anything, without senses or the biochemistry of emotion? Who says so, and on the basis of what evidence?

Indeed, how can there be any doubt which is correct? Physical bodies that have decomposed do not come back to life, get real.
That goes against science. By contrast, the immortal soul is outside the purview of science so it does not contradict science.

Of course, I have already explained to you what Baha'is believe about the soul but here is a brief recap.

The body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are alive on earth, a place to house the soul. The soul animates the body and gives it life. The soul is our self, the sum total of the personality, the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind, goes to the spiritual world where the soul takes on a spiritual body made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual realm. Since all we have ever experienced is physical, it is impossible for us to understand what it is like to be a spiritual being rather than a physical body.

Who says so? Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha said so, and there is evidence that supports what they wrote.

 

[blü 2]

Indeed, how can there be any doubt which is correct? Physical bodies that have decomposed do not come back to life, get real.

First, a happy new decade to you! Live long and prosper!

Second, agreed, physical bodies which are irreversibly dead don't come back to life; but neither do their imaginations, which is the only known place where gods, souls, leprechauns and Marvel heroes are found.

the immortal soul is outside the purview of science so it does not contradict science.

But only on the same basis that the unicorn or the wishing well don't contradict science, in that their sole existence is conceptual, not real. The other side of that coin is that were they real, they'd be precisely within the purview of science.

The body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are alive on earth, a place to house the soul. The soul animates the body and gives it life. The soul is our self, the sum total of the personality, the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind, goes to the spiritual world where the soul takes on a spiritual body made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual realm. Since all we have ever experienced is physical, it is impossible for us to understand what it is like to be a spiritual being rather than a physical body.

Who says so? Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha said so, and there is evidence that supports what they wrote.

Well, we understand each other, I think, so good luck with that.

 

[Trailblazer]

First, a happy new decade to you! Live long and prosper!

Thanks, you too. My life at present is not something to live for but that is a long story. Tomorrow is another day so there is always hope

But only on the same basis that the unicorn or the wishing well don't contradict science, in that their sole existence is conceptual, not real. The other side of that coin is that were they real, they'd be precisely within the purview of science.

I do not believe that everything that is real is within the purview of science. For one thing, science has not yet discovered everything that exists, for another thing I don't think it ever will... But that is where you and I differ and it is nothing I want to argue about.