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What does Jesus say about who will go to heaven?

Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
lunamoth said:
There are some, but I don't think we are all called to give up everything and become street preachers. That would be kind of silly, wouldn't it? But, we are called to give a lot more than most of us do.

The rich young man went to Jesus looking for the simple answer, "What are the rules? What are ABC and D that I can do to be saved?" And, probably, he already felt pretty good about where he was, because he knew he was following the commandments. But Jesus threw him a curve ball. It's not about the rules, but about our whole life. You can't just check off a list of boxes and think you're done...but that is what we always ask for. Make it simple for me, make it so I can control it and know I'm OK.

Really, Jesus gave him the only answer we can give when people ask "what can I do to be saved?" Give up what distracts you, turn toward God, and follow Jesus. It's a way of life and it is about our relationships with God and each other. Choose every day to put God at the center of your life. Choose every day to help and love others. It's not checking off a list of boxes.

It's as challenging as any relationship we enter into that requires sacrifice, and it tends to be a bit 'messier' than following rules.
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It's kind of like literature--not exactly clear, and you have to decipher what you think it means. The fact that it's silly is no help--it's all silly, as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, who are we to tell God He's silly?

Anyway, looking at it from the outside, it's not clear whether Jesus expects everyone to sell all they have and give it to the poor, or just this guy. At one point He tells His followers to give up their families for Him. It has a koan kind of flavor, like Jesus is just trying to blow his mind. Matthew 25 makes it clear, though, that the ticket to heaven is serving the poor and needy. Then again there's that passage about the camel and the needle. Overall Jesus does seem to be anti-wealth and pro Tzedakah (as we say in Judaism) or charity, as Christians say.

So where the heck do these bogus preachers come up with "Jesus wants you to be prosperous?" What do they base that on?
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
lunamoth said:
There are some, but I don't think we are all called to give up everything and become street preachers. That would be kind of silly, wouldn't it? But, we are called to give a lot more than most of us do.

The rich young man went to Jesus looking for the simple answer, "What are the rules? What are ABC and D that I can do to be saved?" And, probably, he already felt pretty good about where he was, because he knew he was following the commandments. But Jesus threw him a curve ball. It's not about the rules, but about our whole life. You can't just check off a list of boxes and think you're done...but that is what we always ask for. Make it simple for me, make it so I can control it and know I'm OK.

Really, Jesus gave him the only answer we can give when people ask "what can I do to be saved?" Give up what distracts you, turn toward God, and follow Jesus. It's a way of life and it is about our relationships with God and each other. Choose every day to put God at the center of your life. Choose every day to help and love others. It's not checking off a list of boxes.

It's as challenging as any relationship we enter into that requires sacrifice, and it tends to be a bit 'messier' than following rules.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, it's not clear. Now it occurs to me that (not you, Luna, but some people) who insist that these passages don't mean what they literally say, but you have to interpret, and use common sense, to figure out what Jesus really meant, etc. etc., then turn around and clobber Gay Christians with a verse from Paul, of all people, saying that homosexuals, or possibly male prostitutes, or young effeminate effete men, or weaklings, or someone, and insist not only does it mean what it says, but even more, it somehow miraculously includes women, who could not possibly be included in a word that refers only to men. A lot (not all, by any means) of Christians are in serious training for the World Hypocrisy Championships.
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
UltraViolet said:
BTW... I just realized I might not have been so clear.

I was speaking of the low/pitance wage labor in China and third world countries,
who produce the goods for Walmart and the like.

I didn't mean US Walmart workers. *doh*
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Oh, sorry V.
 
Scott C.

Scott C.

Just one guy
Autodidact said:
What does Jesus say about who will dwell with him in heaven, and who will suffer eternal punishment?
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Not everyone who saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter in the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in Heaven.

So, the Bible says we need to do the will of the Father to go to heaven.

Except a man be born of water and the Spirit he shall not see the kingdom heaven.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go her way and sin no more. It was his will that she not commit adultery again. Therefore to do his will, we need to not commit adultery. Therefore to go to heaven, we need to not commit adultery. We must remember, that Jesus did not condemn the woman, but forgave her. Nevertheless, he told her to not do it again.

Jesus said "follow me". This is his will. We need to follow him and do as he did to enter the kingdom of heaven.

There are many passages that speak of God's will.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Scott C. said:
Not everyone who saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter in the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in Heaven.

So, the Bible says we need to do the will of the Father to go to heaven.

Except a man be born of water and the Spirit he shall not see the kingdom heaven.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go her way and sin no more. It was his will that she not commit adultery again. Therefore to do his will, we need to not commit adultery. Therefore to go to heaven, we need to not commit adultery. We must remember, that Jesus did not condemn the woman, but forgave her. Nevertheless, he told her to not do it again.

Jesus said "follow me". This is his will. We need to follow him and do as he did to enter the kingdom of heaven.

There are many passages that speak of God's will.
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Does Jesus say you have to accept Him as your personal savior to get into heaven? (Please cite verses.)
 
Scott C.

Scott C.

Just one guy
Autodidact said:
Does Jesus say you have to accept Him as your personal savior to get into heaven? (Please cite verses.)
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"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent."

Jesus says here that eternal life is to know God and Jesus. So, we need to know the Father and the Son to go to heaven.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Scott C. said:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent."

Jesus says here that eternal life is to know God and Jesus. So, we need to know the Father and the Son to go to heaven.
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So that would be a no?
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Scott C. said:
To know God and His Son is to know and accept them for who they are. But, I don't what game we are playing right now. Where are we going?
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We're talking about what Jesus said about how to get to heaven. It isn't that hard to follow along. Do you have anything to say on that score?

Not what you think He said, or you want Him to have said, or what you think He really meant, but what, according to the gospels, He is supposed to have said.

Once we establish what He said, then we can talk about what we think it means.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Scott C. said:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent."

Jesus says here that eternal life is to know God and Jesus. So, we need to know the Father and the Son to go to heaven.
Click to expand...

Where is this verse from? Who's talking here? Please cite. Thanks.
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
UltraViolet said:
BTW... I just realized I might not have been so clear.

I was speaking of the low/pitance wage labor in China and third world countries,
who produce the goods for Walmart and the like.

I didn't mean US Walmart workers. *doh*
Click to expand...

Quagmire said:
Oh, sorry V.
Click to expand...

Nah. I was not specific in my wording,
as IF you all know what I mean when I don't clearly say what I mean.

That's not to say however that hardworking American's don't also
deserve a liveable wage for an honest days work.
(how else are they expected to live? :shrug:)
I was speaking of the poorest of the poor however in my first post.
Third world laborours.
By comparison most poor americans look ...
well, certainly not as poor.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
TheKnight said:
That's why he posted the verses concerning the fruits and the vines. Jesus, throughout the gospels, makes it clear that he desires some sort of works. And that those works are necessary for salvation in concordance with believing.
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Salvation does not equate to Heaven. All who call on Jesus to be Lord and Savior will be saved. The works follow as fruit of salvation because we are no longer under our own lordship but under the lordship of Jesus.

A person could be saved and not go to Heaven and an unsaved person could go to Heaven but the likelihood is slim to none.

For instance my father accepted Jesus as Lord and savior but he is now reincarnated as another person on earth. sometimes this is due to attachment ie the person wishes to be with those he loves and sometimes it is due to lack of knowledge about how to get to Heaven.

Heaven is not even what Jesus came to bring us. He came to bring us eternal life and that is not the same thing because eternal life can exist outside of Heaven. However I would agree that Heaven is a place where eternal life exists.

Lu 18:22 And when Jesus heard it, he said unto him, One thing thou lackest yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

This does not say that works are necessary for Heaven but that they are necessary for treasure in Heaven. This may intimate how the rich man could get to Heaven but it is not very clear about it.

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy: for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for in the same manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Here again this is about the reward in Heaven without explaining how one gets there.

Mt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

These passages are not about Heaven but about the Kingdom of Heaven. They are two different things. Heaven as mentioned here is a descriptor of The Kingdom as opposed to kings of the earth ie. Herod the Great, King Henry the VIII etc.

After looking at all the passages that mention Heaven it is my conclusion that Jesus did not directly state how to get there.
 
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