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What does it mean?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Okay. I'm an atheist (I do not believe deities exist). When I think of deities, I think of Greek Mythology, Hinduism even. So, I want to know from those who believe deities/entities exist (whether it be Jehovah, Ordin, whomever).

To those with whom these questions are appropriate,how do you know they exist as actual entities?

What brought you to that conclusion and how did this actual deity (not feeling, love, energy, or anything like that) communicate with you?

A lot of people say they hear god as a "whisper". They "just know." It's instinct. But do you believe there is an entity behind that instinct (etc) if it's not the source itself?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Okay. I'm an atheist (I do not believe deities exist). When I think of deities, I think of Greek Mythology, Hinduism even. So, I want to know from those who believe deities/entities exist (whether it be Jehovah, Ordin, whomever).

To those with whom these questions are appropriate,how do you know they exist as actual entities?

What brought you to that conclusion and how did this actual deity (not feeling, love, energy, or anything like that) communicate with you?

A lot of people say they hear god as a "whisper". They "just know." It's instinct. But do you believe there is an entity behind that instinct (etc) if it's not the source itself?


the inner voice is like the inner eye.


i'm not advocating for a deity separate from self. consciousness doesn't have a specific form; so I can't allude to this vs that.



this inner voice is like the inner eye. it can theorize on things that aren't readily seen by the outter eye. like things that are to big/small/afar to see with the naked eye. so then we find ways of discoving those things from intuiting them
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
the inner voice is like the inner eye.


i'm not advocating for a deity separate from self. consciousness doesn't have a specific form; so I can't allude to this vs that.



this inner voice is like the inner eye. it can theorize on things that aren't readily seen by the outter eye. like things that are to big/small/afar to see with the naked eye. so then we find ways of discoving those things from intuiting them

What distinguishes the inner voice from one's gut feeling or internal dialogue?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
how do you know they exist as actual entities?

While your question was framed in one way, my answer is from a bit of a different perspective.

My belief is that there are people who have realized Divinity and exist as entities who are simultaneously both human and divine. They are called 'sadguru' or 'qutub' depending on the language. There are also those who are Christ/Avatar and are God taking on human form.

Interacting with them is like interacting with regular humans - through the senses.

Knowing who is truly a sadguru/qutub/Avatar is the challenge. I personally put Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, Ramana Maharshi and Papaji in that category and the videos of the later two can be viewed online.

Recognizing the ones who are truly that, whether alive now or not, is of course a question.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
What distinguishes the inner voice from one's gut feeling or internal dialogue?

You didn't ask me but since I raised that question in my reply, my answer is that it's not a simple problem easily solved.

A number of years ago I was in India with a group. We were sitting in a bus getting ready to depart when I spotted a figure standing next to the bus. I had a sudden very strong urge to run out of the bus and throw myself at that person's feet. Where did that urge come from? It was not eye contact nor any visible communication. I took it then and I take it now as my inner 'voice' recognizing the person's spiritual status.

But I know it's very easy to make mistakes as the string of news items about false teachers is ever ongoing.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It's not hard.

A lot of folks have a very constrained understanding of what "exists" means. I don't understand that. If I can know or be aware of something in any way, it exists. That's a very, very low bar to clear. As in literally anything we could ever talk about as humans clears that bar. The question is never "does such and such exist" (if you ask the question the answer is already yes) but "in what way can I experience this, and what can I know about it?"

That question gets more complicated. Ways of knowing are diverse and often personal. Even the sciences all derives from personal experience, ultimately. So in a way, the question is about "how do you trust yourself to know anything at all about everything?" Because you have no choice. You just do. You have to live your life.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Speaking of atheists...(at least the atheists I know in real life), they usually believe in very strong ideals like Justice, Truth, Goodness, Kindness...

So it is not true that atheists do not believe in anything. They do believe in ideals or virtues that don't necessarily imply the existence of a deity.

Or French Deists who used to believe in the Déesse Raison (goddess Reason)...
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You didn't ask me but since I raised that question in my reply, my answer is that it's not a simple problem easily solved.

A number of years ago I was in India with a group. We were sitting in a bus getting ready to depart when I spotted a figure standing next to the bus. I had a sudden very strong urge to run out of the bus and throw myself at that person's feet. Where did that urge come from? It was not eye contact nor any visible communication. I took it then and I take it now as my inner 'voice' recognizing the person's spiritual status.

But I know it's very easy to make mistakes as the string of news items about false teachers is ever ongoing.

Hmm. I'm assuming that we can define inner voices by their context. For example, someone who experience trauma and have a bad reaction to people as an adult "warning. don't go near" while another person who believes in god has the same warning, how would one tell the difference if not based on the circumstance?

One time I was at a bus stop at the mall years ago. I know jesus wasn't white with brown ironed hair and a dazzling smile. When I saw this guy, the first thing I thought was "he looks just like jesus." Whether if jesus was one of us at that moment or not, who knows. But I bet someone who believes in god would have thought so while someone else would have thought it weird.

How does one know the difference (which kinda gets off topic of my OP, but still curious)?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It's not hard.

A lot of folks have a very constrained understanding of what "exists" means. I don't understand that. If I can know or be aware of something in any way, it exists. That's a very, very low bar to clear. As in literally anything we could ever talk about as humans clears that bar. The question is never "does such and such exist" (if you ask the question the answer is already yes) but "in what way can I experience this, and what can I know about it?"

That question gets more complicated. Ways of knowing are diverse and often personal. Even the sciences all derives from personal experience, ultimately. So in a way, the question is about "how do you trust yourself to know anything at all about everything?" Because you have no choice. You just do. You have to live your life.

I read. I know there are different ways to put it. If talking about Greek Gods, for example, do you believe that they could have exist (how it was written) as actual people who were also gods (have god like power, I guess)?

I wouldn't pass anyone up who actually believed in actual deities/entities. They actually do believe deities (like Zues/God) actually do/did exist. (Edit. My mother believes in actual spirits and she's not religious). To those people who believe deities exist in that particular way, how do they know?
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Speaking of atheists...(at least the atheists I know in real life), they usually believe in very strong ideals like Justice, Truth, Goodness, Kindness...

So it is not true that atheists do not believe in anything. They do believe in ideals or virtues that don't necessarily imply the existence of a deity.

Or French Deists who used to believe in the Déesse Raison (goddess Reason)...

I'm not sure how this relates to my OP. Had to read it a couple of times. What is the point you're making?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
same thing. gut feeling is intuition.

@PureX

Gut feeling can be explained biologically and psychologically. Many people who believe god talks to them say it's not either of those two but it sounds the same gut feeling and inner voice despite the context differences.

Are they wrong?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Hmm. I'm assuming that we can define inner voices by their context. For example, someone who experience trauma and have a bad reaction to people as an adult "warning. don't go near" while another person who believes in god has the same warning, how would one tell the difference if not based on the circumstance?
Why do you assume there should be a "difference"? A "god-believer" calls that intuition a "god-whisper". An atheist calls it a "subconscious insight". The only difference is the paradigm through which each is labeling the experience. While the experience, itself, remains the same. And remains just as 'real and extant' regardless of the labels, or the recipients.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Why do you assume there should be a "difference"? A "god-believer" calls that intuition a "god-whisper". An atheist calls it a "subconscious insight". The only difference is the paradigm through which each is labeling the experience. While the experience, itself, remains the same. And remains just as "real" regardless of the labels, or the recipients.

When someone describes god's communication, a lot of people avoid comparing it to biological and psychological causes which gut feelings and inner dialogues can be explained. So, going off that common notion the difference between spiritual and material (I guess), how do you think "they" differentiate the two?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
@PureX

Gut feeling can be explained biologically and psychologically. Many people who believe god talks to them say it's not either of those two but it sounds the same gut feeling and inner voice despite the context differences.

Are they wrong?
re-inforcing here. god is not something separate from self.


when listening to the still small voice one is listening to the christ in all. the spirit of love. love is a tangible thing that is within us, the power to create.


god isn't this thing sitting in a chair across the universe communicating with an infinite number of othernesses separated from it
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I'm not sure how this relates to my OP. Had to read it a couple of times. What is the point you're making?

I was answering your last question.
Atheists believe in their instinct, I guess and they need no deity...no God.

As for us theists...well..it is possible there is no entity behind that instinct. :)
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
In the OP, I'm treating it as it is since each individual's belief does not reflect the whole-especially one's definitions of god.


so you're basically re-enforcing the idea of telepathy? that something is telepathically speaking to someone from afar?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
As for us theists...well..it is possible there is no entity behind that instinct. :)

Atheist aside, since that's irrelevant. Do you think some theists do believe there is an entity?

I know my mother believes in actual spirits and has said she seen them many times. So, I wouldn't put it pass me.
 
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