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Featured What does it mean to be a better person?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Israel Khan, Jan 15, 2020.

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  1. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Very thought provoking.
     
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  2. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Well that was glaringly obvious and I didn't even see that it was a link.
     
  3. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Would you say that there is also a possible that something we view as immoral today is in that kit?
     
  4. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Regarding "do not harm others" as a trait of a moral person: Would self defense and execution of justice be immoral because it harms others?
     
  5. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    "Birds of a feather flock together"

    I never thought of gauging who I am as a person by who I hang out with. Very good insight on your part.
     
  6. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    EXACTLY!!!
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    if you prefer, there is this



     
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  8. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    What is interesting is that a few of us in this thread have actually detected that we do have a moral compass to guide us independent of God. We can tell what is the baseline morality for most people by actually observing human behaviour. We are social creatures therefore our morality revolves around what supports the benefit of community.

    I am of the viewpoint that we can use religion to gauge how man has evolved in morality. So later religions tend to be more moral (from our standpoint) as a whole than earlier ones, while dangerous fringe cults get judged as immoral. Even religions such as Christianity reveal that followers interpret the text based on their current morality. So I would say that Jesus was ahead of his time morally. The church took a while to catch up with him gradually interpreting the text in a more moral way as time went by. So for instance the bible used to be used as an excuse to wage wars and enslave people whereas these days it is used to refute those practices.

    As for God being a moral compass, and you being a Christian, do you then think it was moral for God to command that his people do the below:

    1 Samuel 15:2–3
    Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

    Also could you please show how society has degenerated morally because they have turned away from God compared to how society was more moral when it turned towards God?
     
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  9. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.
     
  10. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    When I asked wrote the OP, both what and meaning were intended. Because I think that both are linked or at least one motivates the other.

    To be honest I am finding it difficult to comprehend what you are saying because I think that you are approaching from a perspective that I know nothing about. Is it religious, ideological or philosophical? And could you help me understand your worldview?

    I certainly do not understand what non psychological means and why it impacts the discussion.

    You probably would have to dumb things down for me :D
     
  11. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! Thanks!

    i did read up on Conference of Birds. I am a reader of classic literature, such as gothic horror, epic poems and such things so I will definitely read the book.
     
  12. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to the Bible, I am not so concerned with correctness as I am fascinated about the discussions about what is the correct interpretation. It is like a mental exercise for me and the fact that I will never find the actual answer makes the fascination endless.

    Also, reading a religious book is like studying a a profession like archaeology. One has to look at the historical research behind it and really go indepth to understand terms used and the importance of certain imagery. We cannot interact with it satisfyingly without knowing its original context.

    Even more so I treat it as any other piece of literature I read, such as Frankenstein, Lord of the Rings and Paradise Lost. It is a product of creativity and the authors express themselves through the book provoking thought. For instance Ecclesiastes is one of the books I resonate with most in the world.

    I also read the 1611 King James because even though it is a translation of other texts, I personally think that it is one of the masterpieces of English literature, same as Shakespeare and Paradise Lost. It is written beautifully.
     
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  13. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I think as humans with our many different perspectives we come up with a wide variety of ideas about what makes a better person, which is pretty arbitrary. I believe only the Creator God’s view , as revealed in the Bible, gives an accurate assessment concerning human nature.
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I start with animals. Which animal is a better animal? TigerCat or PussyCat?
    Some on RF strongly claimed that humans are just animals.
    IF true then can we talk about "better" animal (human)?

    Pussycat can sleep in my bed
    Tigercat NOT

    I don't call the Tigercat "better" then Pussycat though.
    It's more, that I like to be in control when it comes to having others in my bed.
    At least the control of not being eaten while asleep (or worse awake):D
     
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  15. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Well, the instincts we have support our ability to live together in cooperative tribes, and they work as tendencies that will vary in strength from person to person. Further, you may have come across the not unpersuasive hypothesis that psychopaths have no, or too few, mirror neurons; and the observation that the Venn diagram for success in business and psychopathy often shows substantial overlap.

    Within one's tribe, one's place in the peck order is highly relevant to one's chances of surviving and breeding, so we have to compete with our peers as well as with other tribes. So we also come with the built-in capacity for anger, envy / jealousy is built in, and sex/lust is an imperative.

    So, as someone once said, it's complicated.
     
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  16. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    "...mirror neurons are an exciting, intriguing discovery – but when you see them mentioned in the media, remember that most of the research on these cells has been conducted in monkeys. Remember too that there are many different types of mirror neuron. And that we're still trying to establish for sure whether they exist in humans, and how they compare with the monkey versions. As for understanding the functional significance of these cells … don't be fooled: that journey has only just begun.[16]" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Does make sense, you must be a "killer" to be successful (making millions) in business (they have even an expression "kill the deal").
    And you must have ambition to be in control of others too. I have totally not that ambition. So lucky me, I am not a psychopath:D
     
  18. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Imo, humans have the opportunity to gain higher moral standards if they can see the forest from the trees, and they truly desire such standards. Trouble is that many people desire only that which is necessary to survive and thrive and base their morality on selfish desires. If your morality is of the highest standards you certainly can't expect others to follow.

    So one climbs the mountain of their journey to find that which is the greatest path to follow, and at the end of their journey find that few if any others sought it also.

    I think many people are focused on what is and not what could be if. People see the apparent end of the road of living and see nothing further then that. They live on through their offspring if they care as such.

    So there are eternal mindsets, and temporal mindsets. But to be moral certainly benefits everybody who is reasonable and empathetic.

    I have found there to be great standards of goodness, and all roads lesser. Can humans be good without God? If God didn't make us to be good, then why bother making anyone or anything? Surely humans are capable of deciding their own fate or destiny? Some religions would have you believe that humanity can not be good of its own accord. If that is true then we would have all died out by now. Or God would be obvious to us all.

    Some say God is hidden from those whom do not truly seek God. I don't think that is reality. You can't behold the evil and the good without making your presence known and be a God of action.
     
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  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And it becomes clear to me, that Saints stayed alone in the Himalayas (people did not want to follow them there:D)
    And when you expect others to follow you, you're in big trouble (being disappointed all the time)

    Maybe these people do not really believe there is more then "what is"

    Self Effort is a major part in my Spiritual path

    Unless they found God (so no need to seek), this seems correct to me. Maybe "truly (truth) seek" is a keyword here.
     
    #79 stvdv, Jan 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  20. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    Depends on the intent. I would have to think defending oneself against a deadly threat would not detract from being a moral person if it were necessary for survival.

    Execution of justice is not an excuse to be immoral and it should never cause harm imo.
     
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