What does Esotericism mean to you?

[Orias]

What are your views of the Occult?

I'm not sure what you're really asking here.

I view the occult, as the occult.

how much time have you spent investigating.

Not sure, probably close to a life time.

What areas are you most interested in?

Living?

To answer the question of the OP, what I think esotericism means is that you try too hard.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

What does Esotericism mean to me? What does air mean to you? what does water mean to a fish? (you get the point). lol

The reason why I found this place (Esotericism DIR) and why I am posting here is because something really weird just happened and I don't know what it was or even if I was ready for it.

I have been on a week-long soul searching journey through the layers of my mind and conscious awareness (often through another's perspective), trying to find that unbiased non-duality.

Being fully established in 'waking meditation' and love and prayers for my Lord Siva, I began to type. Next thing I knew, I was reading/aware of what I just typed like a split second after I typed it.

I have often had this 'feeling' before, but this time, it was unmistakable and undeniable (a message was left). It's a 'presence'. I don't feel at all threatened by it and all I can feel is eternal love for and from the source of all that is Wise (Siva).

Still, there was a time of true/real disconnection there (from myself) and it's happened quite a few times on RF now and also in real life (but not as often).

I'm way too humble to accept that somebody/thing may be 'messing with my mind' but I am not really ready to believe/accept that may be God either...all I know is that if God had a 'feeling', this would be it.

Maybe there's something beyond what we know using me as an 'instrument'? - I can feel it (whatever it is) moving through me and sometimes I am terrified, but most times, I am just so in love that I wouldn't know anything else.

So, whether or not I believe in Esotericism, it sure believes in me, because now is one of the former times.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What does Esotericism mean to me? What does air mean to you? what does water mean to a fish? (you get the point). lol

The reason why I found this place (Esotericism DIR) and why I am posting here is because something really weird just happened and I don't know what it was or even if I was ready for it.

I have been on a week-long soul searching journey through the layers of my mind and conscious awareness (often through another's perspective), trying to find that unbiased non-duality.

Being fully established in 'waking meditation' and love and prayers for my Lord Siva, I began to type. Next thing I knew, I was reading/aware of what I just typed like a split second after I typed it.

I have often had this 'feeling' before, but this time, it was unmistakable and undeniable. It's a 'presence'. I don't feel at all threatened by it and all I can feel is eternal love for and from the source of all that is Wise (Siva).

Still, there was a time of true/real disconnection there (from myself) and it's happened quite a few times on RF now and also in real life (but not as often).

I'm way too humble to accept that somebody/thing may be 'messing with my mind' but I am not really ready to believe/accept that may be God either...all I know is that if God had a 'feeling', this would be it.

Maybe there's something beyond what we know using me as an 'instrument'? - I can feel it (whatever it is) moving through me and sometimes I am terrified, but most times, I am just so in love that I wouldn't know anything else.

So, whether or not I believe in Esotericism, it sure believes in me, because now is one of the former times.

You are approaching a difficult realization...and the thoughts you are having are to be expected...but as 'your' consciousness 'merges' the underlying omnipresent Cosmic Mind, duality can not exist...there can't be a 'your mind' and the Universal mind together at the same time. When union takes place, 'your mind' is stilled and there is non-duality...later when the realized state is interrupted by 'your mind' erupting into thought about it, try to understand that 'you' were not actually actively present during the sacred experience. Of course in the retrospect of being back in the dualistic mindset, you were a silent witness. And the irony is that if the union is to be repeated, 'you' must once again be in a state of 'hibernation'.

Few aspirants can accept that the realized state is not theirs to experience...for there is in the ultimate timeless reality just universal mind. There is much to understand wrt non-duality, and it is not an intellectual understanding. Tread carefully and patiently...

ps...this is not to say that your uniqueness will be lost in this sacred initiation, it is better described as one of becoming truly humble as one learns what and who they really are...a very difficult process for the ego.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

You are approaching a difficult realization...and the thoughts you are having are to be expected...but as 'your' consciousness 'merges' the underlying omnipresent Cosmic Mind, duality can not exist...there can't be a 'your mind' and the Universal mind together at the same time. When union takes place, 'your mind' is stilled and there is non-duality...later when the realized state is interrupted by 'your mind' erupting into thought about it, try to understand that 'you' were not actually actively present during the sacred experience. Of course in the retrospect of being back in the dualistic mindset, you were a silent witness. And the irony is that if the union is to be repeated, 'you' must once again be in a state of 'hibernation'.

Few aspirants can accept that the realized state is not theirs to experience...for there is in the ultimate timeless reality just universal mind. There is much to understand wrt non-duality, and it is not an intellectual understanding. Tread carefully and patiently...

ps...this is not to say that your uniqueness will be lost in this sacred initiation, it is better described as one of becoming truly humble as one learns what and who they really are...a very difficult process for the ego.

:namaste Namaste:

Thank you for the prompt and very nice reply *frubal*

I understand your second paragraph now, after the events of yesterday and today.

Our ego always seeks to try and control the situation (even our own enlightenment) and that has been my Soul's 'Dark Night' for quite a while now.

I'm slowly trying to dig myself out of the abyss of self-nihilism (which only gets deeper as I try), all the while thinking it is I who's holding on to that shovel there.

I realised that 'Let Go, Let God' had a lot going for it at that point, so I just fully surrendered again.

I was just wondering who/what has been typing in my 'absence' and I don't want to even go there, but it's just way too late for that now'. I have been 'treading slowly', but the ice is pretty thick now...still, I know when it's time I should be doing 'other things' than talking about God or a 'Divine State' on a public, Internet forum.

....and that's kinda where whatever is left of my ego resides currently.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

:namaste Namaste:

Thank you for the prompt and very nice reply *frubal*

I understand your second paragraph now, after the events of yesterday and today.

Our ego always seeks to try and control the situation (even our own enlightenment) and that has been my Soul's 'Dark Night' for quite a while now.

I'm slowly trying to dig myself out of the abyss of self-nihilism (which only gets deeper as I try), all the while thinking it is I who's holding on to that shovel there.

I realised that 'Let Go, Let God' had a lot going for it at that point, so I just fully surrendered again.

I was just wondering who/what has been typing in my 'absence' and I don't want to even go there, but it's just way too late for that now'. I have been 'treading slowly', but the ice is pretty thick now...still, I know when it's time I should be doing 'other things' than talking about God or a 'Divine State' on a public, Internet forum.

....and that's kinda where whatever is left of my ego resides currently.

Thank you.

Yes, it is a rough ride to be sure..remember that at this stage of planetary evolution, the main wave of humanity is far from awakening from the maya of duality. So for the early volunteer leaders, they are undergoing error correction in this life that the others will be learning over many lifetimes...therefore the suffering is literally an order of magnitude more intense..a sacrifice to be in a position to guide the others from the 'other side' through the rest of this human cycle of evolution.

Concerning the ego...there is no other purpose to the Cosmic spiritual incarnation in physical man than the creation of ego. The three stages of the Cosmic obligatory pilgrimage is from un-self-aware spiritual perfection to self-aware physical ego imperfection, and finally to self-aware spiritual perfection. Now these resultant spiritual self-aware entities are androgenous and thus do not reproduce, so the Cosmo creates them through this awesome process of incarnation.

So don't feel too bad about your ego at this stage, in fact it is only when it has reached the fullness of development (full selfishness), and then shows the appropriate level of remorse for its actions, is it sufficiently 'ripe' to be worthy for translation to spiritual self awareness which is able to leave the physical body permanently. It is not possible for the ego to leave the body, it must be translated/transmuted/modulated onto the underlying omnipresence of Cosmos/Brahman first.

So far as the transitional psychic phenomena are concerned, they can be extraordinarily fascinating and/or disturbing, but the real is always beyond, so try not to become too obsessed or involved with them...learn to let them go.

The process does not end until success, so that means the lifetime ahead...how long will your life last? til the very end of your life...this is not a journey in time...it's a journey from time to timelessness.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Thank you.

Yes, it is a rough ride to be sure..remember that at this stage of planetary evolution, the main wave of humanity is far from awakening from the maya of duality. So for the early volunteer leaders, they are undergoing error correction in this life that the others will be learning over many lifetimes...therefore the suffering is literally an order of magnitude more intense..a sacrifice to be in a position to guide the others from the 'other side' through the rest of this human cycle of evolution.

Concerning the ego...there is no other purpose to the Cosmic spiritual incarnation in physical man than the creation of ego. The three stages of the Cosmic obligatory pilgrimage is from un-self-aware spiritual perfection to self-aware physical ego imperfection, and finally to self-aware spiritual perfection. Now these resultant spiritual self-aware entities are androgenous and thus do not reproduce, so the Cosmo creates them through this awesome process of incarnation.

So don't feel too bad about your ego at this stage, in fact it is only when it has reached the fullness of development (full selfishness), and then shows the appropriate level of remorse for its actions, is it sufficiently 'ripe' to be worthy for translation to spiritual self awareness which is able to leave the physical body permanently. It is not possible for the ego to leave the body, it must be translated/transmuted/modulated onto the underlying omnipresence of Cosmos/Brahman first.

So far as the transitional psychic phenomena are concerned, they can be extraordinarily fascinating and/or disturbing, but the real is always beyond, so try not to become too obsessed or involved with them...learn to let them go.

The process does not end until success, so that means the lifetime ahead...how long will your life last? til the very end of your life...this is not a journey in time...it's a journey from time to timelessness.

Thanking you again. There's a lot of truth and wisdom in your kind words and I am so glad I took this off the 'mainstream forums' and onto here, where these kinds of issues can be fully and properly addressed, but anyway, onto the bolded part.

It's very difficult for me to just 'let this all go' when one already practices Tantra and is totally and fully aware of the duality existing between Purusha (Siva) and Prakriti (Maya /Sakti).

I tried to 'let it all go' once and ended up worshiping the glorious form of Sri Ardhanarishwara (unity through duality- my current avatar). I am currently working on that 'unity in diversity' thing...I am 'getting there'...slowly...

I guess I just have to show more 'remorse for my actions' which can all be boiled down to one word...humility.

This is another lesson that I am trying to learn, and now I am at the stage where my survival (spiritual and otherwise) solely depends upon me learning it.

Esotericism = the union of Siva and Sakti in the Sahasrara Chakra and the various methods/means it takes to reach that level of spiritual awareness..

This is what it means to me.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

So don't feel too bad about your ego at this stage, in fact it is only when it has reached the fullness of development (full selfishness), and then shows the appropriate level of remorse for its actions, is it sufficiently 'ripe' to be worthy for translation to spiritual self awareness which is able to leave the physical body permanently. It is not possible for the ego to leave the body, it must be translated/transmuted/modulated onto the underlying omnipresence of Cosmos/Brahman first.

Just dwelling on this part for a moment...

It was about 3-4 months ago now, when I reached a 'stalemate/impasse' in my spiritual development and devotions to Lord Siva. I lamented loud and wide, to which the only replies I ever got were 'don't come crying to us, go and tell Divine Mother all about it".

So, I prostrated myself before the Divine image of Kali Ma and She is the exact Divine representation of what you are talking about now (hence why She is seen stepping on the underlying prostrate form of Lord Siva).

It was at that moment, I realised what it is that you are now telling me about.

This also could be an omen to pay the Goddess a bit more attention/respect than I currently do, maybe She is getting jealous (and I don't really want to get on Kali's bad side). lol

I know what it is that I must do now though, so the outcome has placated 'my ego' for a while...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thanking you again. There's a lot of truth and wisdom in your kind words and I am so glad I took this off the 'mainstream forums' and onto here, where these kinds of issues can be fully and properly addressed, but anyway, onto the bolded part.

It's very difficult for me to just 'let this all go' when one already practices Tantra and is totally and fully aware of the duality existing between Purusha (Siva) and Prakriti (Maya /Sakti).

I tried to 'let it all go' once and ended up worshiping the glorious form of Sri Ardhanarishwara (unity through duality). I am currently working on that 'unity in diversity' thing...I am 'getting there'...slowly...

I guess I just have to show more 'remorse for my actions' which can all be boiled down to one word...humility.

This is another lesson that I am trying to learn, and now I am at the stage where my survival (spiritual and otherwise) solely depends upon me learning it.

Esotericism = the union of Siva and Sakti in the Sahasrara Chakra and the various methods/means it takes to reach that level of spiritual awareness..

This is what it means to me.

Yes, serious religious practice will bring about the arousal of kundalini and ultimately when the 5 lower chakras are more or less aligned, the ida-pingala nadis will come into balance at the 6th chakra (the union of Siva and Shakti), ...then comes the outpouring through the Sushumna nadi form the Muladhara chakra to the thousand petalled lotus.

We are now in esoteric area and one can only offer glimpses of experience that may or not be relevant or appropriate for others, but the sexual aspect of the union can really be addictive, for the ida - pingala balance does not stay balanced and that's the end of story, and so one may be stay at or near the 'verge' of union for long periods. But so long as the lower chakra stay more or less aligned, one learns to get over the underlying natural erotic nature and stay balanced in a heightened state of unconditional love. But we are talking years and probably decades as the process unfolds... don't worry about time though, all unfolds according to due process as prerequisite understanding is revealed for each new layer of unfoldment of the thousand petalled lotus.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Just dwelling on this part for a moment...

It was about 3-4 months ago now, when I reached a 'stalemate/impasse' in my spiritual development and devotions to Lord Siva. I lamented loud and wide, to which the only replies I ever got were 'don't come crying to us, go and tell Divine Mother all about it".

So, I prostrated myself before the Divine image of Kali Ma and She is the exact Divine representation of what you are talking about now (hence why She is seen stepping on the underlying prostrate form of Lord Siva).

It was at that moment, I realised what it is that you are now telling me about.

This also could be an omen to pay the Goddess a bit more attention/respect than I currently do, maybe She is getting jealous (and I don't really want to get on Kali's bad side). lol

I know what it is that I must do now though, so the outcome has placated 'my ego' for a while...

Yes...you are being guided and protected to a degree according to your state of development..but the envelope seems to be always pushed faster than our ego comfort zone would prefer... There is great irony in that the greater the ego pushes for what it sees as the correct way...the slower the real unfoldment, while the greater the pressure from above for real advancement, the greater complaint from the ego.

As you are aware, the real Guru is within you, not outside, so you are in good hands. Of course you will err sometimes, but the karmic consequences will always result in correction...

God bless.. :namaste

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Yes, serious religious practice will bring about the arousal of kundalini and ultimately when the 5 lower chakras are more or less aligned, the ida-pingala nadis will come into balance at the 6th chakra (the union of Siva and Shakti), ...then comes the outpouring through the Sushumna nadi form the Muladhara chakra to the thousand petalled lotus.

We are now in esoteric area and one can only offer glimpses of experience that may or not be relevant or appropriate for others, but the sexual aspect of the union can really be addictive, for the ida - pingala balance does not stay balanced and that's the end of story, and so one may be stay at or near the 'verge' of union for long periods. But so long as the lower chakra stay more or less aligned, one learns to get over the underlying natural erotic nature and stay balanced in a heightened state of unconditional love. But we are talking years and probably decades as the process unfolds... don't worry about time though, all unfolds according to due process as prerequisite understanding is revealed for each new layer of unfoldment of the thousand petalled lotus.

I totally agree. The fragrance of the lotus smells much sweeter when allowed to bloom naturally, not artificially and this is why I would not do some bizarre practice like cutting my frenum linguae to get full extension during Kechari Mudra.

I am not a Tantric Yogi in the 'sex' sense of the word, and I am totally celibate. I am a 'ritualistic' Tantrika, nothing more.

I used to believe in the Advaitic 'Neti-Neti' school of thought and followed hard-line Vedantism, but now, I just go about looking for those 'differences' that makes everything 'the same' instead of total nihilism.

This is why I follow Tantra now. Not for any 'sex/power/magic' thing. It was the next 'step down' from trying to meditate on an impersonal, non-dual Deity (and that's just the basic 'short cut' version).

I fully believe that people go to certain extremes in the worship of their personal deity or in the practice (sadhana) of their personal faith, but I am not really one of those people.

I am a Raja/Laya Yogi (or trying to become one if my ego gets out of the way permanently) and I think that about sums it up right there.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I totally agree. The fragrance of the lotus smells much sweeter when allowed to bloom naturally, not artificially and this is why I would not do some bizarre practice like cutting my frenum linguae to get full extension during Kechari Mudra.

I am not a Tantric Yogi in the 'sex' sense of the word, and I am totally celibate. I am a 'ritualistic' Tantrika, nothing more.

I used to believe in the Advaitic 'Neti-Neti' school of thought and followed hard-line Vedantism, but now, I just go about looking for those 'differences' that makes everything 'the same' instead of total nihilism.

This is why I follow Tantra now. Not for any 'sex/power/magic' thing. It was the next 'step down' from trying to meditate on an impersonal, non-dual Deity (and that's just the basic 'short cut' version).

I fully believe that people go to certain extremes in the worship of their personal deity or in the practice (sadhana) of their personal faith, but I am not really one of those people.

I am a Raja/Laya Yogi (or trying to become one if my ego gets out of the way permanently) and I think that about sums it up right there.

That's interesting, I wasn't familiar with Kechari Mudra but naturally learned to place my tongue on the roof of my mouth as it was conducive to the steadying of my mind in practicing still mind meditation.

Yes, true Tantra is not about sexual gratification, but like most religious practices in this world in time, it got debased.

I practice still mind meditation, something that really can't be debased as it transcends any and all conceptualizations...on the rare occasions the mind is actually devoid of thought that is..

 

[Caladan]

Esotericism: When I stand in front of a painting in a gallery, listening to the people next to me commenting on basic visual aesthetics in the painting, while I see the symbolism behind the background and elements in the painting, and the inner meaning of the painting that the artist conveyed. It could be Hermetic, Classical, Biblical, or part of the Mysteries. A certain animal can represent something, a certain mythological artifact, a combination of elements, etc. Many paintings contain a narrative which goes well beyond what a person sees. Without understanding such symbolism the person will only see people and landscape.

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

In my personal worldview when I survey the occult it is when I may go well into the eccentric that goes beyond what the average person reads or become familiarized with it. It is not only an esoteric meaning, but it is a whole system of esoteric ideas, terminology, and practices.
At the moment I am at an advanced stage of writing an MA dissertation which researches an interplay between paganism and Christianity, and the reuse the church has done in sacred pagan sites in the Levant and specifically Palestine in Late Antiquity. Although I'm analyzing archaeological sites and data, covering such a subject also confronts me with the study of heterodox Christian writings, Eastern and Mystery cults, and the stupendously diverse religious and philosophical world of the Late Roman to Byzantine Mediterranean.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi Caladan, your MA dissertation sounds interesting..will you provide a link when its finished?

Hmmm Agnostic Pantheist...do I detect some movement relative to your earlier Atheist position...well done...G-d/Cosmos/Brahman/Allah/Tao/Nirvana/Universal/Etc., blessings to you... :namaste

 

[Vishvavajra]

Many, if not all, religious traditions have some teachings that are hard for the average person to understand using conventional everyday thinking. If they approach them from that starting point, then they will very likely become confused or come away with the wrong idea entirely. Esoteric teachings are ones that really only make sense to the initiated--whether that's a literal initiation or a figurative one that comes from having attained a certain level of understanding. Esoteric teachings often sound like nonsense when taken literally, which is a good sign that they are not meant to be understood in terms of the surface meaning.

People who are not ready for esoteric teachings will usually make one of two mistakes: either they take the literal meaning of the words to be the true teaching (sometimes with bizarre results), or they'll start thinking that nonsensical statements themselves are the point and make a person deep. Both are perilous, so there are some traditions that try to keep most people away from esoteric teachings until they're ready. Other traditions dangle them out in the open and judge people's readiness by how well they can grasp them.