What does Esotericism mean to you?

[ChrisP]

In the west students of the Occult and Esoteric are seen as akin to Satanists, or those initiated into secret enclaves of cryptic persons with some mysterious agenda to pursue.

Often this could not be further from the truth. In the sticky on the subject it is put forth that:

From Wikipedia

"Esotericism refers to knowledge suitable only for the advanced, privileged, or initiated, as opposed to exoteric knowledge, which is public. It is used especially for mystical, occult and spiritual viewpoints."
"Esoteric knowledge is knowledge that is secret or not generally known."

While this is all very thrilling and Matrix-y, I feel compelled to argue that such knowledge is, while not generally know, hardly secret at all.

Esotericism is not belonging to a group of elite or those "in the know", it is a life's pursuit. Pursuit of understanding of the inner or hidden from view as opposed to the secret. It's fruits best described as gnostic or understanding of what lies behind the curtains of all of this world, and this does not refer to the world of men, as seems to be implied by nearly all brief overviews that have crossed my path on the Net. It is understanding of the intangible, the immeasurable. That which is beyond our senses is the most subtle and beautiful.

So... I guess my questions are:

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

Trying to flush you all out

 

[jeffrey]

I have no idea..... But if you humm a few bars, I'll try and join in! :bounce:

 

[ChrisP]

GEEEEZZZZ the ONE time I try to be serious

 

[michel]

In the west students of the Occult and Esoteric are seen as akin to Satanists, or those initiated into secret enclaves of cryptic persons with some mysterious agenda to pursue.

Often this could not be further from the truth. In the sticky on the subject it is put forth that:

From Wikipedia

"Esotericism refers to knowledge suitable only for the advanced, privileged, or initiated, as opposed to exoteric knowledge, which is public. It is used especially for mystical, occult and spiritual viewpoints."
"Esoteric knowledge is knowledge that is secret or not generally known."

While this is all very thrilling and Matrix-y, I feel compelled to argue that such knowledge is, while not generally know, hardly secret at all.

Esotericism is not belonging to a group of elite or those "in the know", it is a life's pursuit. Pursuit of understanding of the inner or hidden from view as opposed to the secret. It's fruits best described as gnostic or understanding of what lies behind the curtains of all of this world, and this does not refer to the world of men, as seems to be implied by nearly all brief overviews that have crossed my path on the Net. It is understanding of the intangible, the immeasurable. That which is beyond our senses is the most subtle and beautiful.

So... I guess my questions are:

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

Trying to flush you all out

Consider me flushed out!

I think I prefer the definition given on "Religious Tolerance org" Website.

OCCULT: A set of mostly unrelated divination and/or spiritual practices or activities which appear to tap into forces that have not been explained by science, and which are not conventional practices seen in traditional religions.

Basically, this includes clairvoyance, divination, Astrology, Palmistry, Numerology, The Tarot, Kabbalah practices, witchcraft........( I may have missed some).

I was fascinated by these subjects in my late teens, read various books (that have since noticably disappeared from library shelves since), and tried various of these practices.

Palmistry, Numerology, astrology and the Kabbalah are all intertwined; it is almost impossible to study one without crossing into one of the other areas. The one that is, as I understand it, "Closed" is the Kabbalah ; that is reserved for very few Jewish Rabbis.

There are some who pretentiously claim to teach the Kabbalah, but these are fakes, who are well prepared to fleece the rich who are prepared to part with their money for nonsense.

I still practice some of the above (The Tarot, Astrology, Palmistry and numerology ), because they have become a part of my life; some more than others.

I practice Reiki and Faith healing, which, I suppose could be put under the same 'umbrella' as the others.

Does that help ?

 

[ChrisP]

Sure does . The only things I practice are meditation and the I Ching (Chinese method of divination). I'm looking to expand my horizons but am more inclined towards alchemical and meditational spiritual pracitises that utilise the imagination and emotion. Anything you've read??

 

[michel]

Sure does . The only things I practice are meditation and the I Ching (Chinese method of divination). I'm looking to expand my horizons but am more inclined towards alchemical and meditational spiritual pracitises that utilise the imagination and emotion. Anything you've read??

Loads! I do use the I Ching (or at least have used it), but I find the Tarot so much better (just for meditation); the way I prefer best is to have a good (and they are few and far between) 'guided meditation' tapes. One was especially good (so good that I have lost it). As for the books, I haven't many left now; just a couple on the Tarot, some on Kundalini and the Chakras....but I guess that's not what you are really looking for.

 

[ChrisP]

Ah well! The quest continues cheers Michel.

 

[opensoul7]

The ancient mystery religions is where exoteric/esoteric come from. There was information and stories available to the general public or uninitiated (the exoteric).There was deeper meaning and insights in those same stories wich were taught to the initiated only when they were believed to be spiritualy ready or mature( the esoteric) .The information was passed on in steps ,not all at once. If the initiate never matured or was not ready then they never moved into deeper meaning and information. Just because you were a initiate did not guarantee you anything , it just meant you had potential. To my knowledge the Mandeans of Iraq , the dogon of Mali, are just a few religions today that still are intiate & exoteric/esoteric based. The Freemasons are not a religion but share the same trait.

 

[ChrisP]

The ancient mystery religions is where exoteric/esoteric come from. There was information and stories available to the general public or uninitiated (the exoteric).There was deeper meaning and insights in those same stories wich were taught to the initiated only when they were believed to be spiritualy ready or mature( the esoteric) .The information was passed on in steps ,not all at once. If the initiate never matured or was not ready then they never moved into deeper meaning and information. Just because you were a initiate did not guarantee you anything , it just meant you had potential. To my knowledge the Mandeans of Iraq , the dogon of Mali, are just a few religions today that still are intiate & exoteric/esoteric based. The Freemasons are not a religion but share the same trait.

This is the history of Esoteric organisations yes.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

Trying to flush you all out

Missed this thread completely the first time around. How typical. Would be surprised if anyone ever reads this reply.

My views on the occult would be...that occultism really is fascinating but volatile stuff. With caution, good intention and favourable circumstances it can open up wonderful and rarely explored spheres of experience. However, its unlikely that anyone using it isn't going to fall into a few holes or get into some trouble from time to time. I had to stop pursuing it for almost a decade because of the mess I got myself into. Before then I'd spent many several years not so much investigating as diving right in.

Currently I'm practising Golden Dawn style ceremonial Magick again, building up my familiarity with occult symbolism, again, and working on my visual memory and focus for use in so-called astral work. I'm also trying to regulate my lifestyle better because I'm going to need it.

What it all means to me is hard to put into words. I guess it wouldn't be too far from the mark to say it means the difference between feeling like a broken & caged animal in a bleak world of mundane brutality and an ecstatic & grateful admirer of a world pregnant with beauty & enchantment.

 

[Willamena]

I believe that the "esoteric" knowledge of occult practices is the same that the mystic possesses, that of a particular paradigm of reality. Occultism, to the "uninitiated," views the knowledge from a position of not yet having the paradigm shift in place, so that their practices approach it from a place where the mysterious itself can apparently be manipulated in symbol, word and deed through rituals, spells and rites, etc. Such an approach is available to everyone, and so has popular appeal. Such occultism shrouds the mystery in a blanket of superstition.

I don't yet know what occultism might mean to the "initiated," but I'm doing some reading to try to find out.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

I believe that the "esoteric" knowledge of occult practices is the same that the mystic possesses, that of a particular paradigm of reality.

Somewhat.

Occult practices can change perception of reality in many ways. It can seem to the occultist as if normally hidden or otherwise obscure things become revealed to them through their use. This is one aspect of a larger whole though. The "esoteric" knowledge of occult practices also concerns the practices themselves for instance. Some are kept secret deliberately by those that use them. Some are obscure because there aren't many people who would be interested in them or in a position to understand & use them.

As I see it real occultists are few and far between and invariably eccentric.

Such an approach is available to everyone, and so has popular appeal. Such occultism shrouds the mystery in a blanket of superstition.

Because it operates on the fringes of our culture much of occultism serves as a kind of repository for what was left over and rejected by mainstream religion & science. As such occultism is rife with the superstitious, monstrous, antiquated and nostalgic. Included with this detritus are overlooked or forgotten treasures. To get to them requires a lot of exploration into dark and often dangerous places where its easy to get lost or stuck.

 

[Pariah]

Typically, I associate esotericism with mysticism (which was once, and is in some areas of the world, still esoteric), but by definition, it does include astrology, cults, tarot, I-Ching, magick, etc.

Occult practices, however, exist in any form of religion and are not restricted to "blood letting" or "human sacrifice": the digestion of "the body of Jesus Christ" and "His Blood" represent the same mentality and practices. Often times, because it is not considered mainstream, sadly, the label comes negative and derogatory.

 

[Katzpur]

In the west students of the Occult and Esoteric are seen as akin to Satanists, or those initiated into secret enclaves of cryptic persons with some mysterious agenda to pursue.

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

Well, for starters, I don't see the occult and esoteric teachings as being the same thing at all. In some ways, I see them as being at opposite ends of the spectrum. The LDS temple ceremonies are (according to LDS belief) patterned after the ancient esoteric teachings that Jesus shared only with a relatively few people, primarily during the 40-day period after His resurrection but prior to His ascention into Heaven.

 

[Godfather89]

Imagine the following: A circle, this circle represents exoteric religion. Now imagine a circle inside that circle, this is esoteric religion. Simple as that, it goes beyond simple dogma and doctrine and focuses on the experience.

Now imagine a point on the outside circle with a line to the inside circle and than another point on the other side of the outside circle going to point on the inside of the circle. If you noticed in this visualization, the outside points were two different religions but the more you got to the esoteric circle the closer in distance the two religions became.

This means than that the closer we get to the center of the circle the closer we come to unveiling the truth...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi Godfather89

Imagine the following: A circle, this circle represents exoteric religion. Now imagine a circle inside that circle, this is esoteric religion. Simple as that, it goes beyond simple dogma and doctrine and focuses on the experience.

Now imagine a point on the outside circle with a line to the inside circle and than another point on the other side of the outside circle going to point on the inside of the circle. If you noticed in this visualization, the outside points were two different religions but the more you got to the esoteric circle the closer in distance the two religions became.

This means than that the closer we get to the center of the circle the closer we come to unveiling the truth...

So if we stay with this metaphor and postulate the outside circle as the material ego mind that deals with 3D reality, then the next inner circle would represent a somewhat more esoteric view of reality, and so on to the center, progressively becoming more mystical relative to more material view of reality of the outer.
Now it seems to me that the ego mind represented by the outer circle is going through some form of transmutation each time it is translated to the next inner circle, etc., until it reaches the center.
My question is,...if we assume the outer circle is human personality/ego, me no less, and the center as Oneness, God no less, does the self consciousness I identify with as me disappear at the center?

 

[Surya Deva]

In the west students of the Occult and Esoteric are seen as akin to Satanists, or those initiated into secret enclaves of cryptic persons with some mysterious agenda to pursue.

Often this could not be further from the truth. In the sticky on the subject it is put forth that:

From Wikipedia

"Esotericism refers to knowledge suitable only for the advanced, privileged, or initiated, as opposed to exoteric knowledge, which is public. It is used especially for mystical, occult and spiritual viewpoints."
"Esoteric knowledge is knowledge that is secret or not generally known."

While this is all very thrilling and Matrix-y, I feel compelled to argue that such knowledge is, while not generally know, hardly secret at all.

Esotericism is not belonging to a group of elite or those "in the know", it is a life's pursuit. Pursuit of understanding of the inner or hidden from view as opposed to the secret. It's fruits best described as gnostic or understanding of what lies behind the curtains of all of this world, and this does not refer to the world of men, as seems to be implied by nearly all brief overviews that have crossed my path on the Net. It is understanding of the intangible, the immeasurable. That which is beyond our senses is the most subtle and beautiful.

So... I guess my questions are:

What are your views of the Occult? how much time have you spent investigating. What areas are you most interested in?

Trying to flush you all out

Hi Chris,

I think esoteric has come to take on the connotations of being something negative because of the secrecy. In general we tend to think of what we cannot understand to be something to be feared. In that case, everything is esoteric no? I don't understand neurobiology, chemisty, cow milking, firebreathing, rubber fetishism, all off the top of my head. All of this is esoteric to me. If I study them, and do them, then it will no longer be esoteric. In that something is which esoteric is knowledge which exists but is unknown.

Why should firebreathing be esoteric? Well, if it wasn't, people would get very hurt trying. It is esoteric because it requires one to go through training, discipline, before they even attempt it. Likewise, certain spiritual traditions are esoteric, because if everybody got involved, it could cause harm.

The Vedas are an esoteric tradition. The ancients would not let the commoners anywhere near the knowledge of the Vedas. The training was very intensive and vigorous and went on for years before even someone of the Brahman caste could read them. In that time people did not mistrust the Brahmanas, they rather had respect for them. They accepted the Brahmanas as being in some ways the super beings of society. I digress however. The Brahmanas had very particular methods of transmitting the Vedic knowledge, using what we call today error checking algorithms, which could pick up error in transmission. If instead the Vedas were transmitted like any common knowledge(exoteric) then error would have creeped in. Thanks to the esoteric tradition of the Brahmanas, the Vedas have been preserved to near perfection.

Thus an esoteric tradition I would say is a must. We do need to make very strong distinctions between common knowledge and specialist knowledge to preserve the specialist knowledge. If it enters the public domain it becomes corrupted.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

I find the notion of hoarding knowledge in most cases to be inexcusable; the better informed the majority of people are the better. So the distinction between esoteric and exoteric is one that I would do away with. There is some knowledge which is dangerous for untrained individuals to possess (like someone who learns how to make explosives without learning how to handle them), but I do not believe in knowledge so "profound" that it should not be widely spread.


The occult I find to be essentially the same as most religions, which is to say a mish-mash of appealing ideas masking a majority of non-sense over top a kernel of truth. Somewhere in the occult there are truths to be gleaned (just like any specific religion), but I have often found that in perusing the occult (I often do this for inspiration for my writings and game designs) that the falsehoods far out-weigh the truths, in that it takes far too long to sift through the various ideas to find even a grain of truth.

MTF

 

[Pleroma]

I think we have been tantalizingly pushed into a world-view where we have to inevitably accept the world-view of the esotericists. I think one day its going to be more powerful than modern science and the orthodox religions.

I have studied both the esoteric christianity, Neoplatonism and the esoteric Aryan religion of the far east. Trust me they all deserve a serious investigation because they all agree, teach and say the same things.

Eosteric means "intelligible only to those with special knowledge". For others much of what esotericism looks nonsense only the matured ones who are highly dedicated can understand the esoteric essense hidden in all religions of the world.

If you want a more formal definition of Esotericism then you should check out Antoine Faivre's work.

 

[Sylvan]

Well, for starters, I don't see the occult and esoteric teachings as being the same thing at all. In some ways, I see them as being at opposite ends of the spectrum. The LDS temple ceremonies are (according to LDS belief) patterned after the ancient esoteric teachings that Jesus shared only with a relatively few people, primarily during the 40-day period after His resurrection but prior to His ascention into Heaven.

So my group is esoteric and the other one is occult?

And there is some kind of qualifying value or valence which differentiates the two?

That's seems like some pretty basic tribalism.