What does demon possession mean to you?

[The Reverend Bob]

@David J

Allow me to recommend two books:

• "Hostage to the Devil" by Malachi Martin (Original publication: 1978; 2nd Edition: 1992).
• "Glimpses of the Devil" by M. Scott Peck (2005)

Have you read any of Tillich's work on the demonic or Walter Wink? I read Martin's book by the way.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Have you read any of Tillich's work on the demonic or Walter Wink? I read Martin's book by the way.

Neither. I tend to shy away from Paul Tillich. Will look for Wink's book.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Neither. I tend to shy away from Paul Tillich. Will look for Wink's book.

Wink has a whole series of books on the powers and the demonic, there is an anthology of his work available on Amazon if you want

 

[Enoch07]

Ignorance is simply not knowing. It's just the same to say and just as equally unoffensive to say they were inexperienced with disease, unaware of bacteria, and lacked information about mental illness. Which they did. Just as such at one point in time our entire species was ignorant of the concepts of algebra and zero, and remained largely ignorant of them as a species until more recent times as information became more widespread and more easily obtainable.

But it is offensive when you compare modern medical knowledge to ancient peoples knowledge then call the ancient people ignorant. Our ancestors may not have had the accessibility to the knowledge we have now but it is ignorant to blame them for being ignorant because without them, we would not have this knowledge, because they are the ones that got us to where we are.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Wink has a whole series of books on the powers and the demonic, there is an anthology of his work available on Amazon if you want

Will check it out.

 

[Stevicus]

I never could understand the point of having demons in the first place. What purpose do they serve in the Grand Design? To just go around possessing people?

And it seems rather pointless, since the demons give themselves away with the projectile vomiting, the screaming, the flailing, and turning their heads all the way around.

You'd think that they'd try to play it cool - possess someone famous or powerful - and try to act like that person, while subtly shaping the course of human events.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I never could understand the point of having demons in the first place. What purpose do they serve in the Grand Design? To just go around possessing people?

And it seems rather pointless, since the demons give themselves away with the projectile vomiting, the screaming, the flailing, and turning their heads all the way around.

You'd think that they'd try to play it cool - possess someone famous or powerful - and try to act like that person, while subtly shaping the course of human events.

You know how you are a person who has ideas, concepts and beliefs?

 

[Terry Sampson]

And it seems rather pointless, since the demons give themselves away with the projectile vomiting, the screaming, the flailing, and turning their heads all the way around.

LOL!

 

[The Reverend Bob]

LOL!

I hate the movie. American Psycho is a far better picture of what a demonic is like

 

[blü 2]

So, "in the modern day", you mean that demon possession in the Bible is another way of describing what we would now call mental illness?

Two replies to that.

First, there's no coherent concept of what a real demon is ─ if we found a real candidate, we couldn't tell whether it was a supernatural being or not, a demon or not. This is the problem that calling it a 'spirit' (as in 'evil spirit') seeks to evade; but there's no way to distinguish a spirit, in this sense, from a fictitious being, something entirely imaginary, so that gets us nowhere.

Mental illness is real, and accounts for so much of 'demonic possession' as is not fraud &c. It's the subject of evidence-based research which continues to bring better understanding and better results. Like just about everything about humans, it remains a work in progress.

Second, if we shut our eyes to the first point, then Satan, and demons, as well as mental illnesses, can only exist because God wants them to exist. When the universe is ruled by an omnipotent, omniscient being, there's no other possible source, no other place for the buck to stop.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In the modern day, I ask this sincerely.

It's a phrase that's so common in the books I cringe every time I hear it. It's clearly a sign of medical ignorance.

I am not a fan. It is not something I believe in. I know that if I saw a demon-possessed person, I would change my mind. Not likely. I would wonder what was wrong with them. What was and is considered demon possession could be anything and have rational explanations.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do believe in possession by spirits but that it's not necessarily a negative thing. It's an intrinsic part of Voodoo, for example.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But it is offensive when you compare modern medical knowledge to ancient peoples knowledge then call the ancient people ignorant. Our ancestors may not have had the accessibility to the knowledge we have now but it is ignorant to blame them for being ignorant because without them, we would not have this knowledge, because they are the ones that got us to where we are.

But they were ignorant. It is in our ignorance that we look for answers, look to the sky, listen and smell, taste and touch, observe and document, test and experiment. Replacing ignorance with knowledge has pretty much driven every development of our species, from omens and divination, agriculture revolution to the technological revolution, medicine and telescopes. We aren't always correct, and today still we remain ignorant on much and there is potential for much of what we think we know today to as factual knowledge will be demonstrated to be positions based on ignorance tomorrow. There is nothing offensive about lacking knowledge, no more than it is offensive to lack an appendix or eye. They just are. But we can replace ignorance, and based on our ignorance learn and discover more than we previously have.

 

[Darkforbid]

Two replies to that.

First, there's no coherent concept of what a real demon is ─ if we found a real candidate, we couldn't tell whether it was a supernatural being or not, a demon or not. This is the problem that calling it a 'spirit' (as in 'evil spirit') seeks to evade; but there's no way to distinguish a spirit, in this sense, from a fictitious being, something entirely imaginary, so that gets us nowhere.

Mental illness is real, and accounts for so much of 'demonic possession' as is not fraud &c. It's the subject of evidence-based research which continues to bring better understanding and better results. Like just about everything about humans, it remains a work in progress.

Second, if we shut our eyes to the first point, then Satan, and demons, as well as mental illnesses, can only exist because God wants them to exist. When the universe is ruled by an omnipotent, omniscient being, there's no other possible source, no other place for the buck to stop.

See you can't just talk about demons, you just have to have a dig at God at the end

Not to mention the logical absurdity of a sceptic saying something can only exist if God want it too

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Two replies to that.

First, there's no coherent concept of what a real demon is ─ if we found a real candidate, we couldn't tell whether it was a supernatural being or not, a demon or not. This is the problem that calling it a 'spirit' (as in 'evil spirit') seeks to evade; but there's no way to distinguish a spirit, in this sense, from a fictitious being, something entirely imaginary, so that gets us nowhere.

Mental illness is real, and accounts for so much of 'demonic possession' as is not fraud &c. It's the subject of evidence-based research which continues to bring better understanding and better results. Like just about everything about humans, it remains a work in progress.

Second, if we shut our eyes to the first point, then Satan, and demons, as well as mental illnesses, can only exist because God wants them to exist. When the universe is ruled by an omnipotent, omniscient being, there's no other possible source, no other place for the buck to stop.

What is "spirit" to you?

 

[Enoch07]

But they were ignorant. It is in our ignorance that we look for answers, look to the sky, listen and smell, taste and touch, observe and document, test and experiment. Replacing ignorance with knowledge has pretty much driven every development of our species, from omens and divination, agriculture revolution to the technological revolution, medicine and telescopes. We aren't always correct, and today still we remain ignorant on much and there is potential for much of what we think we know today to as factual knowledge will be demonstrated to be positions based on ignorance tomorrow. There is nothing offensive about lacking knowledge, no more than it is offensive to lack an appendix or eye. They just are. But we can replace ignorance, and based on our ignorance learn and discover more than we previously have.

Aight, you win this round.

 

[blü 2]

See you can't just talk about demons, you just have to have a dig at God at the end

What I said applies to anything, any being, said to be supernatural. But my point of view is easy to refute ─ just furnish us with the definitions presently lacking, by which we'll at last know what real thing(s) we're looking for.

Not to mention the logical absurdity of a sceptic saying something can only exist if God want it too

As I said, in my view you have to shut your eyes to reality to come to that position; but if you do, it's likely to occur to you at some stage that once you have an omnipotent omniscient being, that's where responsibility for everything must be.

 

[blü 2]

What is "spirit" to you?

In this context, I take it to refer to a being that is thought of as supernatural / immaterial / transcendent &c.

The adjective 'spiritual' can cover a wider range to include the outlook of a person concerned about particular aspects of their own emotional state as well.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

In this context, I take it to refer to a being that is thought of as supernatural / immaterial / transcendent &c.

The adjective 'spiritual' can cover a wider range to include the outlook of a person concerned about particular aspects of their own emotional state as well.

I take it to mean the "essense" of a thing

 

[Darkforbid]

What I said applies to anything, any being, said to be supernatural. But my point of view is easy to refute ─ just furnish us with the definitions presently lacking, by which we'll at last know what real thing(s) we're looking for.
As I said, in my view you have to shut your eyes to reality to come to that position; but if you do, it's likely to occur to you at some stage that once you have an omnipotent omniscient being, that's where responsibility for everything must be.

Well that's just empty rhetoric, total ignores free will, assumes God directly contacts man, whereas in scripture its by signs or messengers. Plus you seem total unaware that a lot of phenomena associated with mental illness is recognised as real yet is unexplained by science.

For example I bet you cannot tell me what would be need to scientifically explain say telepathy