What does ''agnostic atheist'' mean?

[Desert Snake]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief? Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you? Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!
~disciple

 

[Jumi]

For me it means I don't see any proof of gods existing and no reason to assume people have been in contact with them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief? Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you? Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!
~disciple

"Agnostic atheist" means that the person is both an agnostic (believes that the answer to the question of gods' existence is ultimately unknowable) and an atheist (has no belief in any gods).

Somebody who thinks that the idea of God sounds unreasonable but recognizes that there are limitations on human knowledge would be one example of an agnostic atheist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Technically, I'm an agnostic atheist, but I tend to avoid using the term "agnostic" to describe myself. I recognize limits to my own knowledge generally, and these do apply to gods... but they don't apply to gods any more than anything else.

I don't say that I'm "agnostic" about getting groceries tonight, despite the fact that there's real uncertainty there - it's happened before that I've gone to buy groceries, but the supermarket is closed for whatever reason.

I'm less doubtful about the non-existence of gods than I am about my ability to buy groceries, so I generally won't emphasize uncertainty on the question of gods any more than I emphasize it on the question of whether I can buy groceries (i.e. not at all in most situations).

 

[LuisDantas]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief?

That we acknowledge that we can't know (agnosticism) for certain whether there is any deity, but when push comes to shove we don't believe there are (atheism).

Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you?

That, IMO, is completely personal and subjective. "Deity" is an incredibly ill-defined term, with all or nearly all of its characteristics left to be established by the speaker. Perhaps oddly, few if any of those characteristics are more arbitrary than its degree of importance and relevance to each person.

The bottom line is that for some people (like yours truly) the very idea of a deity that could conceivably exist is utterly odd, unrealistic, unconvincing. Others might have more ease with the idea, but still fail to see much distinction between doubting its existence and disbelieving it. Still others might navigate the idea fairly well and sympathise with it, yet ultimately find it ill supported by the available evidence.

And fairly independently, it is anyone's guess how much a specific person will care about or need belief in deities, if at all.

I suspect that is also true of theists, incidentally.

Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''?

Not much, nor directly. The impact of the concept of deity's vagueness and arbitrariness is far more direct and significant.

Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!
~disciple

We can't ever know anything about deities, not in an authoritative way. But theism (belief) and its opposite have never been about knowledge. Certainty and assuredness, yes, but not knowledge.

 

[HonestJoe]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief? Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you? Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!

~disciple

First, both terms are used by different people and in different contexts to mean quite different things, sometimes with the added complication of ulterior motives or subtexts.

In the simplest terms, "atheism" means without a belief in any god or gods and can cover anything from ignorance to explicit rejection of the concept. "Agnostic" usually refers to an individual or people in general not knowing whether any gods exist but again, the reasons for reaching that conclusion can be varied. They say quiet different things about the individual and so are perfectly valid used together.

In practical terms, people may label themselves "agnostic atheism" as a pre-emptive defence against accusations of holding a negative position on faith or being anti-theistic, things some people identified as atheist are but many certainly aren't. I don't like such labels at all but if pushed to apply any to myself, this is what I consider most accurate, though any one position on this subject is inevitably deeper and more complex than a couple of generic terms can cover.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In practical terms, people may label themselves "agnostic atheism" as a pre-emptive defence against accusations of holding a negative position on faith or being anti-theistic, things some people identified as atheist are but many certainly aren't.

But anti-theism and agnosticism aren't necessarily incompatible. As an analogy, I can still say that I think you don't actually have a live elephant in the trunk of your car even if I can't completely exclude the possibility that I'm in the Matrix and in the "real" world, elephants fit into car trunks easily.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Good answers here. I asked that before and I concluded that you can believe God doesn't exist (atheist) while knowing it is possible to be wrong, leaving a "maybe" (agnostic). Basically, saying God doesnt exist; and, if He does, I will not deny His existence.

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief? Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you? Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!
~disciple

 

[HonestJoe]

But anti-theism and agnosticism aren't necessarily incompatible.

Certainly, but my reference at that point was in relation to imagery more than the "true" meanings of the words. Especially in places such as this, you can get a different response identifying as "atheist" compared to identifying as "agnostic atheist" even if they mean the same thing in context.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Certainly, but my reference at that point was in relation to imagery more than the "true" meanings of the words. Especially in places such as this, you can get a different response identifying as "atheist" compared to identifying as "agnostic atheist" even if they mean the same thing in context.

Fair enough.

As I alluded to earlier, the reason I don't call myself an "agnostic atheist" despite being obe is that I'm no more "agnostic" about gods than I am about all human knowledge, so I think that calling myself "agnostic" on this one issue when I don't describe myself that way on any other issue would make it seem like I have a special level of uncertainty on the god issue, which isn't the case.

 

[leibowde84]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief? Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you? Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''? Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

Thanks!
~disciple

I think sometimes the terms are interchangeable, but it depends on who they are describing. Here is a great site that points out the differences very well ...

Agnostic vs Atheist - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

An agnostic atheist is an atheist that doesn't know anything. Lol. Jk.

I guess agnostics are wiser because they are humble enough to admit that God might exist. They just don't have any "proof" for either side.... Gnostic atheists believe that they know God doesn't exist. I'm a gnostic theist. I know God exists. He revealed Himself to me. God gives us proof of His existence individually. Atheists must seek Him first, then He will reveal Himself to them.

 

[leibowde84]

An agnostic atheist is an atheist that doesn't know anything. Lol. Jk.

I guess agnostics are wiser because they are humble enough to admit that God might exist. They just don't have any "proof" for either side.... Gnostic atheists believe that they know God doesn't exist. I'm a gnostic theist. I know God exists. He revealed Himself to me. God gives us proof of His existence individually. Atheists must seek Him first, then He will reveal Himself to them.

That is certainly not always the case. I know many atheists who started as Christians, but through a journey to learn more about God, they realized that they did not have enough objective evidence to back up their beliefs. I just think that it is kind of condescending to say that, if Atheists only tried they would see the truth too. I mean, considering that God is all powerful, he really doesn't do that great of a job convincing atheists.

 

[HonestJoe]

An agnostic atheist is an atheist that doesn't know anything. Lol. Jk.

An agnostic is someone who acknowledges that we don't know anything.

I guess agnostics are wiser because they are humble enough to admit that God might exist.

Somewhat ironic coming from someone who appears not to admit that God (especially your specifically defined one) might not exist. Your perceived revelation is no different to countless other people who believe with equal faith and certainty that entirely different gods revealed themselves. You can't all be right.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

An agnostic atheist is an atheist that doesn't know anything. Lol. Jk.

See... this is the problem with these sorts of discussions: this ridiculous false dichotomy where some theist tries to argue that atheists can only either have perfect certainty (which would imply that the atheist is unjustifiably overreaching his position) or no certainty at all (which would imply that none of his objections to theism have any foundation). It ignores how knowledge actually works.

I guess agnostics are wiser because they are humble enough to admit that God might exist. They just don't have any "proof" for either side.... Gnostic atheists believe that they know God doesn't exist. I'm a gnostic theist. I know God exists. He revealed Himself to me. God gives us proof of His existence individually. Atheists must seek Him first, then He will reveal Himself to them.

... and apparently you're not humble enough to acknowledge that you might be wrong.

Do you think you're omniscient about everything, or only about gods?

 

[leibowde84]

An agnostic is someone who acknowledges that we don't know anything.

Somewhat ironic coming from someone who appears not to admit that God (especially your specifically defined one) might not exist. Your perceived revelation is no different to countless other people who believe with equal faith and certainty that entirely different gods revealed themselves. You can't all be right.

I agree. For one to put one's own experience above others, saying to themselves that everyone else's experience couldn't be as important/undeniable as mine is far worse than an Atheist who just denies everyone's subjective experience equally. IMHO of course.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Atheists must seek Him first, then He will reveal Himself to them.

There's a flip side that coin. Many atheist have seek God and God in one way or another has revealed Himself to some who seek. That doesn't mean because God revealed Himself, they will walk into His arms happily.

That is as if saying, I hand you some flowers you should be grateful to the point of going into a relationship with me. To an atheist, they may have received the flowers and got the invitation from me [as God]... but they realize they didn't want that type of relationship that I provide. So, they said no.

As with any other relationship. Some are born into it and found out they aren't compatible. Some converted and found out the same.

Many of these people God has spoken to them; that's probably why they are agnostics and atheists and other faiths today because of their former relationship with God.

 

[Willamena]

Can you explain what these terms mean when combined as a description to your belief?

Agnostic atheism is the understanding that we shouldn't affirm things about a god that we know nothing about.

Does atheism mean simply the absence of a deity to you, or the rejection of a belief in a deity to you?

If you refer to the rejection of god, then it can be either. The mind has rejected what it doesn't believe in, and that's usually something deemed unlikely or "absent."

Does this impact the label ''agnostic atheist''? Since we are dealing with belief here, /we can't ''know'' that deity doesn't exist,/ does this mean that the term is a redundancy, ie ''I don't know if I have a non-belief in a deity''?

Arriving at the conclusion that, "we can't know (whatever)," is being the agnostic. But it's not necessarily the atheist's conclusion. Some, for instance, have a firm belief in the limitation of their own capacity to know, and hence may hold out the possibility that we could find out something about god someday.

You are always capable of assessing whether you have a belief or don't. Belief is simply whatever about the world that you hold to be true. Just ask yourself, "Is that true, as far as I know?" and you will have answered the question, "Do I believe it?"

Or does it mean, ''I don't know if I am denying the existence of a deity''? Or something else?

If you don't know if you're denying something, then you're doing it wrong.

Rejecting, like belief, isn't something you choose. If you asked, "Is that true?" and the answer came back, "no," then you've rejected it.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

That is certainly not always the case. I know many atheists who started as Christians, but through a journey to learn more about God, they realized that they did not have enough objective evidence to back up their beliefs. I just think that it is kind of condescending to say that, if Atheists only tried they would see the truth too. I mean, considering that God is all powerful, he really doesn't do that great of a job convincing atheists.

A real Christian will not turn their back against God and become a flat out atheist. I questioned the Bible... I questioned religion. I question everything actually, but I truly sought after God and obeyed His commandments while questioning things, therefore, God revealed Himself to me. A lot of atheists were never real Christians to begin with. I know that because a lot of people in the church are not real Christians. The majority of the world is in fact going to Hell. Only a few find that narrow path. WE MUST HAVE FAITH AND HUMBLE OURSELVES IN ORDER FOR GOD TO REVEAL HIMSELF. I know all of this from experience.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

An agnostic is someone who acknowledges that we don't know anything.

Somewhat ironic coming from someone who appears not to admit that God (especially your specifically defined one) might not exist. Your perceived revelation is no different to countless other people who believe with equal faith and certainty that entirely different gods revealed themselves. You can't all be right.

Well, there is only one true God. I'm certain that mine is the one true Creator. The abrahamic religions are the most followed religions. Those polytheistic religions are a joke. No offense to anyone. All religions have some truth to them. In a sense, we are all serving the same God, we just call Him different names. What many of you don't understand is we need a savior because we are sinners. Only one religion speaks of a savior and it is indeed the truth. Seek and you shall find, honey.