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What do you think of the virgin birth of Jesus ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by FearGod, May 8, 2015.

?
  1. I don't believe it, it is irrational

    69.6%
  2. I believe that it happened and can be explained by science

    4.3%
  3. I believe that it happened by a supernatural way and it can't be explained by science

    26.1%
  1. Bunyip

    Bunyip pro scapegoat

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    It was quite a common claim, understandable also - given that the punishment for being pregnant unmarried was being stoned to death. If they were going to stone me to death, I would say God did it also.
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    The writer does not know even the spelling of 'Mata' (mother) and she claims knowledge of Hinduism. Hindus (with few exception of those confused who live in Christian majority areas or may have studied in missionary schools) will not worship Mary, though we have umpteen (the number will go in to thousands) Mother Goddesses. We even have a major Goddess 'Mariamman' in Tamilnadu, but that has no connection with Mary. She is considered a form of Parvati or Durga. She is the counter-part of ****ala Devi in North India. Her worship mainly focuses on bringing rains and curing diseases like cholera, smallpox, and chicken pox. (Mariamman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Arulmigu Kottai Periya Mariamman Temple - Salem, ****ala - riding a donkey with a broom in hand, frightens people by being associated with Chickenpox on account of children. "In Buddhist culture, Jvarasura and ****ala are depicted sometimes as companions of Paranasabari, the Budhhist goddess of diseases." (Wikipedia, Jvarasura - the demon of fever). On her special day (****ala Ashtami, which comes as the cold season departs, people eat stale food prepared a day earlier, tasty, special preparations. Scientific reason, it is the last day on which stale food should be eaten, because food will spoil in summers. I like a cup of tea in the morning, so I protested and obtained a concession from my wife for it. We no longer observe the day.
     
    #42 Aupmanyav, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    The idea of a miraculous conception is common in Hindu scriptures. (Aup adds: I would say not all people will accept that these births were asexual, because there is no stigma attached with being sexual):

    Krishna descended directly into the womb of his mother, Devaki.
    Avatars of the god, living in the Human realm descend into human women's wombs, i.e., without intercourse - Rama.
    Karna was the result of Queen Kunti asking the god Surya for a child, without taking Kunti's virginity, just before she married King Pandu.
    The Pandavas: Brahmin laid a curse upon King Pandu, telling him not to touch either of his two wives sexually or he'd die. Queen Kunti, ever resourceful, simply asked the other gods to give her and her co-wife children. The gods gave them the Pandavas.
    Virgin birth - RationalWiki
     
    #43 Aupmanyav, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    People fathered by a God following sex are common, births involving cut off penises or testes are common, births that were foretold common, babies with magical powers common, conceptions involving animals are common, etc.

    There are countless 'miraculous birth' or 'supernatural birth' type legends, but births where the mother is emphasised as a virgin are far less common than many people assume.
     
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  5. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    The definition of virginity changes by culture and time. In the objective sense, it has little meaning.
     
  6. Sabour

    Sabour Well-Known Member

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    Well there is nothing one can argue about when the child talks to defend the honor of his mother.

    19:29 So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
    19:30 [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
    19:31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
    19:32 And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
    19:33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
    19:34 That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
    19:35 It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
    19:36 [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

    So for who Jesus peace be upon him was, and for his many miracles, especially for the first one which is talking as an infant I do accept the virgin birth of Jesus peace be upon him.

    However, that was a miracle when God was sending us prophets and giving them miracles in order for them to prove that they were who they claimed they were and the miracles were given for them in order to prove the truth behind their message. However now we are not living in the age of miracles and the messages, prophets, and revelations time is gone. For God said in the Quraan

    5:3 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    To answer your question in the OP I say no, I don't believe a woman can get pregnant without a man being involved unless God wanted it that way as a miracle, which was the case for the prophet Jesus peace be upon him. However now we are past the miracles time and the message had been fulfilled. There will be no more miracles, but there will only be prophecies fulfilled.
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    But Mohammad was the son of Abd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim and Umm Amina.
     
  8. Marisa

    Marisa Well-Known Member

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    I didn't answer the pole, because I needed the word "if" to be in one of the options. Can a girl get pregnant without a man? Yes and no, we have IVF in which no sex act is required, yet sperm is still necessary to fertilize the egg. Of course at the time the bible was written and Mary is supposed to have given birth, this was yet known to be possible. It is possible, albeit rare, for a woman to get pregnant before the onset of menses. So what I think is that if the story of Jesus' birth has a basis in fact, then it's likely that Mary was pregnant, by a man (Joseph, her intended?) before the onset of menses. I can totally see how such a thing would appear to be of supernatural origin to the people of that time.
     
  9. Tiapan

    Tiapan Grumpy Old Man

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    I believe the confusion is in the translation,
    "Maid" is probably a better translation than virgin, and makes more sense.

    Cheers
     
  10. NulliuSINverba

    NulliuSINverba Active Member

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    No.

    No.
     
  11. JFish123

    JFish123 Active Member

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    If God created the universe, creating a y or X chromosome is small potatoes
     
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  12. Mountain_Climber

    Mountain_Climber Active Member

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    Which do you suppose was more difficult for God to do?

    Creating man from clay or impregnating Mary?

    I you doubt one you must also doubt the other.
     
  13. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Out of interest, do you believe in Mary's perpetual virginity? I'm assuming yes, but didn't want to assume, hence the question.
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    What do you think of the virgin birth of Jesus ?

    Jesus was born to Mary without a father. There are/were many people who were born from the virgins in the ancient times.

    Adam was born without a father or mother.

    Regards
     
  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    There are many people born even now whose mothers were virgins.
     
  16. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Does science support it ?
    Is it possible for fertilization to occur without the sperm ?
     
  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    #57 paarsurrey, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The virgin birth is a mythic construction intended to place Jesus as a deific being. In fact, Jesus' birth narrative closely mirrors the mythic birth of Augustus. As such a construction, it is useful in helping to construct meaningful theology about the Jesus Event.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Well, for example, myself. My mother was a virgin when she married my father. Am I not born of a woman who was a virgin?
     
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  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Well in that sense everybody is born of a virgin.
    I agree with you.

    Regards
     
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