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Featured What do you think of Purgatory?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Estro Felino, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.:)
    I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
    So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

    Purgatory - Wikipedia

    You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
    Thank you in advance.
     
    #1 Estro Felino, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I'm non-christian, and I think of any form of post-mortem punishment by a creator type God that makes us a certain way and places us in a certain environment then punishes us for being the way we are made is ridiculous and unjust.

    In my opinion.
     
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  3. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    I think Purgatory (and Limbo) are ad hoc inventions by the RCC to fix holes in their after life theology. They make sense within their philosophy but have no scriptural backup.
     
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  4. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    So you die and are going to heaven but you are not quite ready. Through prayer from living people you get that extra "purification" needed and then you are good.
    Grown people actually sat around and came up with this stuff and other people bought it?

    nglican Bishop John Henry Hobart (1775–1830) wrote that "Hades, or the place of the dead, is represented as a spacious receptacle with gates, through which the dead enter."[116] The Anglican Catechist of 1855 elaborated on Hades, stating that it "is an intermediate state between death and the resurrection, in which the soul does not sleep in unconsciousness, but exists in happiness or misery till the resurrection, when it shall be reunited to the body and receive its final reward."[117] This intermediate state includes both Paradise and Gehenna, "but with an impassable gulf between the two".[16] Souls remain in Hades until the Final Judgment and "Christians may also improve in holiness after death during the middle state before the final judgment."[118]

    This sounds like a story in a Silver Surfer comic. The final judgment is a total rip-off of Persian theology as well. How do they get away with this?
     
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  5. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I guess it depends on the fact that the Roman Catholic Church sees sin not as a monolith.
    There are venial sins, which are forgivable and emendable. And there are irreparable sins.
    For example, lust or gluttony are not the same as murder and fraud.
    The first affect the lifestyle of the Christian...and they don't produce any damage to the exterior world. Whereas murder, fraud, deception, robbery, corruption destroy justice and create irreparable damages.

    The Catholic Church states that the more serious damage a sinner does, the more he will be punished in the Afterlife. So Purgatory is the place where those who committed emendable and forgivable sins, go.
    After repenting, of course.
     
    #5 Estro Felino, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I thought one of the Pope's had declared Purgatory to not exist?
     
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  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    As far as I know, no Pope did such a thing.:)
     
  8. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Sorry, I'm mixing it up with Limbo
     
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  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I don't understand it.

    That's pretty much the size of my opinion on the matter. It's a non-concept in my religion, I haven't studied the Christian concept of it, so I know very little about it and won't pretend to understand it at all. Also no clue what soter... soteiro.... whatever that other word you used is.
     
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  10. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Soteriology is the branch of theology that focuses on salvation. How to attain salvation in the afterlife. :)
     
    #10 Estro Felino, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  11. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying
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    As far as I'm aware (and I could be wrong) it was simply invented by the Roman Catholic Church. As such I see no reason for me to believe in it. As far as I'm aware.....
     
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  12. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    As I understand it, purgatory was a huge money-maker for the church.
     
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  13. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Surely. By the time of the indulgences, sold as if they were an item.
    Which was an evident sin of simony committed by the Vatican for centuries.
     
  14. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Okay, yes... that explains why I've also no idea about that either. Salvation isn't a thing in my religion either so there's no branch of theology dealing with it.

    Maybe I should start coming up with fancy names for stuff in polytheistic theology, but... eh. It'd just confuse people more in a culture where polytheism is off-the-radar.
     
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  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    As one who believes the Bible is the only accurate source on spiritual matters, I don’t believe the doctrine of purgatory is true. The scriptures say...

    ...And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
    Hebrews 9:27

    I was raised in Catholicism, but I now think too many of the Church’s teachings are contrary the Bible. According to the scriptures, it is only the suffering, she’d blood and broken body of the Savior Jesus Christ which purifies and cleanses one from sin. Therefore, the concept of one needing to be further purified after death in a place like purgatory goes against the Gospel message and the sufficiency of the completed work of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection.
     
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  16. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Very interesting view, thank you.:)
    Do you mind me asking on question?
    Do you think all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord?
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  18. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Much more pleasant than Purgatory, Texas:

    Purgatory | TX Almanac

    Abandoned town. Only a cemetery is left.
     
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  20. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Well-Known Member

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    From The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

    1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

    1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

    As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608​

    1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

    Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611​

    607 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
    608 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4,39:pL 77,396; cf. Mt 12:31.
    609 2 Macc 12:46.
    610 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274):DS 856.
    611 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41,5:pG 61,361; cf. Job 1:5.
     
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