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Featured What do you think Bible or Islamic texts wants the reader to think?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Lars, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. Lars

    Lars Member

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    Interms of psychology of it.

    My assumption is this

    Bible = Melevolent dictator. Mainly because there is biblical verse where physical punishment on a child is ok (assuming the context is if they dont listen)
    Islamic texts = Dominance and slight sadomasochism (Sadomasochism is if you paint people or that stuff you go to hell, because image makers are cursed in sunni hadiths. Though not sure if some would argue this is in context to idol worship or literally) But i lay mostly weight on "Dominance part" where you are supposed to feel dominated and dominate with the islamic religion

    But this is mainly my impression from reading or getting into it. I cant comment in Shia sources. But Sunni ones is the ones i have spent mostly time with. And Bible is more shorter so there is that.

    But its mainly because of those psychological views that i find them interesting to read.

    Whats your view?
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    First and foremost, I suspect that the texts want the reader to think rather than post superficial drivel dignified as psychology.
     
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  3. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    As a sufi Muslim i would say islam for me is the best that happen to me, and bo my focus is not on text telling me to harm others, islam to me is love and compassion

    Edit: The scriptures are made for practitioner of Abrahamic religions so each one can find unity with God/Allah
     
    #3 Conscious thoughts, Aug 5, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  4. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    Firstly, welcome to the forum, @Lars! :D

    I think psychology is more of a modern concept. Now, if we are talking philosophy, that's where religion goes more into depth, IMO.
     
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  5. Lars

    Lars Member

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    I guess i think more of what the authors of those texts wants the reader to feel. So its overall interesting once one find that pattern.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    So the authors [sic] of Genesis, Micah, Ruth, Esther, Job, and Psalms all gathered together over some bad wine and laffa and decided what they wanted the reader to feel, all in the hopes that you'd stumble along and "find the pattern." Just brilliant. :rolleyes:
     
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  7. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Actually the wine wasn’t that bad though overpriced and the service was lousy - at least so I am told by @metis who, by chance, was a couple of tables down.
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Ya, I took Judas' place when he left but I'm not sure there is any such thing as bad wine.

    Oh wait, I forgot about Manischewitz. :fearful:
     
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  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    You always struck me as a Kedem kind of guy.
     
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  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Disciplining our children is seen as a good thing from a loving parent.
    There is something in the law which allows the parents of a lazy and incorrigible and drunkard youth whom the parents cannot cope with, to be brought to judgement and stoned by the men of the town. (Deut 21:18-21)
    Sounds harsh but I bet that threat got plenty of delinquent kids on the straight and narrow.
    I wonder if any parents ever did that.
    The reason for the law was probably support for parents with rebellious kids and consideration for the children themselves. (who were no doubt more than children at that stage) and the reason given in the text is below.
    Deut 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    I imagine if it ever got to that stage then it would work out better for the whole community to go through with the punishment and it served God's purposes of having a holy society.
    This day and age it would not be tolerated because we are supposed to be enlightened.
    Welcome to the forum.
     
    #10 Brian2, Aug 5, 2021
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  11. Lars

    Lars Member

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    Historically, scholars think 5 books of Moses was written in 600BC. But they do have themes to why they were written which makes sense to the history.

    The 10 plagues of Egypt was probably to shame Egyptian culture, because of polytheism and probably to send a message to Yahweh was bigger in a sense. Because Israelites developed more or less into monotheism later on, from canaanite culture to hebrew culture. Although the installation of monotheism didnt happen til Cyrus the Great let them return and build the temple.

    I have heard some interesting theories that you can cross a sea if you wait for it to retract, and then go over before it comes back in a sense.
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    You didn't spell it right; it's "s-w-i-l-l".

    [explanation: I only like dry reds, such as a Bordeaux or a Chianti]
     
  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    In-group and out-group - Wikipedia

    "people can form self-preferencing in-groups within a matter of minutes and that such groups can form even on the basis of completely arbitrary and invented discriminatory characteristics"
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Once again proving that

    a little knowledge is

    first and foremost

    a little knowledge :rolleyes:
     
  15. Lars

    Lars Member

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    Well i will read Talmud once i am done with Islamic texts. But depends if i plan on learning arabic or not (no promises) but translations online are always helpful.
     
  16. AlexanderG

    AlexanderG Active Member

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    1. The most powerful man in charge should be obeyed without question.
    2. Your social tribe is favored by the creator of the universe, which completely justifies your exploitation of all other peoples.
    3. Women are sexual property.
    4. Disregarding or questioning the above rules will result in your infinite suffering.
     
  17. Lars

    Lars Member

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    Here is the religious cult i made. Basically what i believe in.

    In a sense, think there have been two counter arguments i have heard

    1: Morality is subjective
    2: Life is chaotic

    I dont believe morality is subjective, even though people think i dont understand what subjective mean, which i do. The definition socialists have atleast of subjective morality, isnt to say you can do whatever you want. But that rules changes and is never permanent like dogmatic truths have it. But i do think there is some unchangable facts. I for example, without knowing atleast, if you kill a baby who is your family. I have a feeling most will see that as evil. So when i mean "Objective morality" i mean in context to what is set in place to begin with. Not the whole "You cant be this or that". Its more intentions and what objective morality leads to wrong or right

    But life is chaotic, which is why taming it is part of it too
     
  18. AlexanderG

    AlexanderG Active Member

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    Your reply had nothing to do with my comment in any way, but alright.

    I define "subjective facts" as true dependent on a mind, like opinions, beliefs, preferences. By contrast "objective facts" are true independent of any minds, like water molecules being made of one oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms.

    For this reason, I see theism as inherently subjective because its tenets always depend on the opinions and preferences of a god. But which god? Which version of a god? Along those lines, there are tens of thousands of different denominations within Christianity, most of which make mutually exclusive claims about objective truth. This effectively means they are subjective. At best, only one out of all these thousands could be "the" objective truth. This means that any single denomination, including your particular truth system, is vastly more likely to be just a subjective truth that is in fact objectively false.

    Any my goodness, what on earth do socialists have to do with any of this?
     
  19. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    The Bible (NT) is clear - the two greatest commandments upon which everything else rests.

    The Quran is clear - God (Allah) is merciful and compassionate based on the frequency of repetitions in the Quran.
     
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  20. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Well, MY Bible does not contain the New Testament. The way it looks to me, the New Testament has a completely different message than the Tanakh (OT), and that in fact the two messages are incompatible.

    The Message of the Torah is simply the covenant between the People of Israel and God -- the 613 commandments. The text says we are to be a nation of priests. The prophets hammer the idea of obedience, obedience, obedience, urging Israel to repent of its sins and return to God's ways. The second most important message would be the mercy of God, that he forgives, that he casts our sins into the sea and remembers them no more, if we return to his ways.

    Now, these texts are written by Jews about Jews for Jews. However, there are many non-Jews in this world that gain inspiration from them. If they read them at face value, without superimposing a non-existent Christian theology upon them, I imagine they would come away with an idea of the importance to God how we treat each other.
     
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