NetDoc,
It was not just a newfangled idea developed by first century Christians:
(Genesis 3:24) And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
(Deuteronomy 17:7) The hand of the witnesses first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward; and you must clear out what is bad from your midst.
Unfortunately it has not been widely practiced since the first and second centuries. Also when it was properly practiced it led to a proliferation of home churches, many, many small break away groups, that left the true congregation and the true teaching and they all became part of, well, read it for yourself:
(1 John 2:18-21) Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. 20 And you have an anointing from the holy one; all of you have knowledge. 21 I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth.
(Titus 3:10) As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition;
(2 John 10) If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.
Many so-called good and very sincere people are unknowing part of a group condemned in the Bible. On the other hand a very great number do know and this is what they do with that knowledge:
(Matthew 23:13-15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in. 14 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one you make him a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as yourselves.
What I am asking of you and any other reader is that we come up with a few ways to know for sure which group we are in. I am not interested in personal opinions so I ask these things be based on the Bible and that they be presented with scriptural references and explanations, fair enough?
(Matthew 25:32-33) And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
(Matthew 7:22-23) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name? 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.
(Matthew 7:13-20) Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. 15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheeps covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men].
In the past men have tended to form groups and even now men are forming into groups and those various groups then take on the characteristics of the men, therefore, just as men can be recognized by their fruits so can groups made up of those men. That can even be applied to the two future groups who though not yet separated by Jesus are nonetheless separating themselves from each other.
(2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does Gods temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people. 17 Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing; and I will take you in. 18 And I shall be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me, says Jehovah the Almighty.
Many people are still searching while others just want to eliminate any eventuality but the better of the two, no matter, a list of those fruits will be useful to all. To me a list of negatives would be used to point out or at people/groups in a negative way; I am not interested in that. Also a list of the negatives would probably be never ending. A positive list does it the better way besides a list of the positives will be much shorter and more useful. Again, this is a list of good fruit that will be found among the sheep and not found among the goats.
NetDoc, based on what you have said so far you seem to have some good ideas along these lines. Would you mind sharing them with the rest of us in the form a list? Again, we are talking group and not individual so talking about what is in the heart is not going to apply very well to a group not to mention that we cannot read hearts. However, out of the heart come actions and claimed beliefs and other things that can be applied to groups.
(Matthew 15:18-20) However, the things proceeding out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those things defile a man. 19 For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies. 20 These are the things defiling a man; but to take a meal with unwashed hands does not defile a man.
Let me help you to understand what I mean by giving you a few examples from my list of what fruits I use to identify a group: (1) Its teachings are based firmly on the inspired Scriptures. (2) The true religion advocates worship of only the one true God, Jehovah. (3) A very important part of worship that is pleasing to God is faith in his Son, Jesus Christ.
I could go on and I could provide scripture references and explanations but I did not because the title of this thread is, What do you say?, so what do you say should be on the list?
It was not just a newfangled idea developed by first century Christians:
(Genesis 3:24) And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
(Deuteronomy 17:7) The hand of the witnesses first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward; and you must clear out what is bad from your midst.
Unfortunately it has not been widely practiced since the first and second centuries. Also when it was properly practiced it led to a proliferation of home churches, many, many small break away groups, that left the true congregation and the true teaching and they all became part of, well, read it for yourself:
(1 John 2:18-21) Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. 20 And you have an anointing from the holy one; all of you have knowledge. 21 I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth.
(Titus 3:10) As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition;
(2 John 10) If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.
Many so-called good and very sincere people are unknowing part of a group condemned in the Bible. On the other hand a very great number do know and this is what they do with that knowledge:
(Matthew 23:13-15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in. 14 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one you make him a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as yourselves.
What I am asking of you and any other reader is that we come up with a few ways to know for sure which group we are in. I am not interested in personal opinions so I ask these things be based on the Bible and that they be presented with scriptural references and explanations, fair enough?
(Matthew 25:32-33) And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
(Matthew 7:22-23) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name? 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.
(Matthew 7:13-20) Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. 15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheeps covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men].
In the past men have tended to form groups and even now men are forming into groups and those various groups then take on the characteristics of the men, therefore, just as men can be recognized by their fruits so can groups made up of those men. That can even be applied to the two future groups who though not yet separated by Jesus are nonetheless separating themselves from each other.
(2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does Gods temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people. 17 Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing; and I will take you in. 18 And I shall be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me, says Jehovah the Almighty.
Many people are still searching while others just want to eliminate any eventuality but the better of the two, no matter, a list of those fruits will be useful to all. To me a list of negatives would be used to point out or at people/groups in a negative way; I am not interested in that. Also a list of the negatives would probably be never ending. A positive list does it the better way besides a list of the positives will be much shorter and more useful. Again, this is a list of good fruit that will be found among the sheep and not found among the goats.
NetDoc, based on what you have said so far you seem to have some good ideas along these lines. Would you mind sharing them with the rest of us in the form a list? Again, we are talking group and not individual so talking about what is in the heart is not going to apply very well to a group not to mention that we cannot read hearts. However, out of the heart come actions and claimed beliefs and other things that can be applied to groups.
(Matthew 15:18-20) However, the things proceeding out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those things defile a man. 19 For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies. 20 These are the things defiling a man; but to take a meal with unwashed hands does not defile a man.
Let me help you to understand what I mean by giving you a few examples from my list of what fruits I use to identify a group: (1) Its teachings are based firmly on the inspired Scriptures. (2) The true religion advocates worship of only the one true God, Jehovah. (3) A very important part of worship that is pleasing to God is faith in his Son, Jesus Christ.
I could go on and I could provide scripture references and explanations but I did not because the title of this thread is, What do you say?, so what do you say should be on the list?