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Featured What do you mean by "free will?"

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by 9-10ths_Penguin, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)

    hello, enoch
    I hope you are warm and well today. perhaps you may agree that over time, languages tend to change. Words and expressions may come to mean something completely different. Maybe you can even think of examples of how a language that you speak has changed.

    So, LOL, this isn't about an 'accent', not at all.
    Possibly, this Bible scripture will better convey the need for all to be able to understand the written Word of God accurately, found at Revelation 14:6 "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people."

    The reality that languages change over time also applies to the languages into which the Bible has been translated. A Bible translation that was easily understood when first produced may later become less effective. Consider an example involving a Bible translation into English. The King James Version was first produced in 1611. It became one of the most popular English Bibles, (though not the first one translated into English) and it would come to have a significant impact on the English language. Notably, the King James Version drew only limited attention to God’s name. It used “Jehovah” in a few verses, and it used the word “LORD” in capital letters in other verses in the Hebrew Scriptures where the divine name originally occurred. Later printings also used the word “LORD” in capital letters in some verses in the Christian Greek Scriptures. In that sense, the King James Version acknowledged the rightful place of God’s name in the so-called New Testament. Even so, much of the wording in the King James Version became archaic over the centuries. Christians today need not think that the work of translating the Septuagint, Wycliffe’s Bible, the King James Version, or any other translation was inspired by God. Nevertheless, when we review the history of these and many other translations that have been published, it gives support to this fact: Just as Jehovah promised, his Word has endured. Does that not strengthen your faith that all the other promises Jehovah has made will likewise come true?

    May you have peace

    edited to correct spelling
     
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Yes modern languages change and evolve almost daily. But like I said it's not about the language per say. Whether someone says "ye" or "you all" has nothing to do with why the KJV is preferred. This is why I LoLed at your silly question. Because you think that is the reason why anyone would prefer the KJV.

    Here:
    :tearsofjoy:
     
  3. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Enoch
    Since you seem to think that the words written aren't important, but prefer to stick to the way people spoke centuries ago, I will share this with you for your reading pleasure:
    Enjoy:

    Original King James Bible (AV 1611)

    That [men] may knowe that thou, whose name alone [is] IEHOVAH: art the most High ouer all the earth.

    Peace to you
     
  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Ok, so you quoted psalms 83:18. And your point is?
     
  5. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Enoch
    How many changes did you notice, other than the usual 'thees and thines'? for someone new to the English language, do you think it should all be in a common vernacular making it easily understandable?
    The point is getting the Divine Writings available to all who desire to learn what is Inspired of God and beneficial for all mankind. Why make it harder than it needs to be? Is there a particular reason that you prefer archaic language no longer used in modern day society?

    Peace
     
  6. Holdasown

    Holdasown Active Member

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    I don't believe in free will per se. Fate guides our course. We have have some choices but they are limited.
     
  7. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I don't prefer the archaic language. This is my point the whole time. But I also don't have a problem understanding the archaic language because I actually put forth effort into understanding it.

    This is the crux of the problem. Everyone wants it to be deciphered and have it spoon fed to them. Which causes more problems than it solves imo.
     
  8. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Holdasown
    I appreciate hearing your opinion on the matter of 'free will' and/or 'fate', etc. No doubt, many people feel as you do. When a person narrowly escapes a disaster, people say, ‘It wasn’t his time,’ but when someone dies in a freak accident, they conclude, ‘His time has come’ or ‘It’s the will of God.’ Whether they attribute the outcome to fate, luck, destiny, or God, the rationale is basically the same. Many people believe that events in their life and the outcome are predetermined and that there is nothing they can do about it. And this type of reaction is by no means limited only to when death or accidents are involved; neither is it limited to this day and age. Is this how you feel about life of all humans?

    peace
    (quote)
     
  9. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Enoch. Is it not true that Babies require milk until they are strong enough and mature enough to be able to digest meat?
    Should we simply have the attitude with 'spiritual babes', that "the crux of the problem is that they want to be spoon-fed"?
    Perhaps you may not have considered it in that way, but many people today are learning from the Bible for the first time--for a variety of reasons. Which is why Jesus commanded that His 'shephards' "feed" his flock. Look at Matthew 24:12-14. When does it say that 'the end will come'?
    Who is it that doesn't want people to learn the truth of God's Inspired Written Word? ( 2 corinthians 4:4, perhaps?)
    Just as Jesus lovingly told his disciples that they should all become as 'a small child', when searching for and being instructed in the Word, shouldn't we assist in any way possible to have a share in Jesus' command to 'feed my sheep'?
    I know that you wouldn't give a hungry infant a steak to eat , but why is that? So making the written Word more easily understood is a kindness, don't you think?
    May you have peace
    (quote)
     
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  10. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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  11. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hello friend,
    would you mind if I post a modern day translation of the scripture in Matthew 7, that you are including at the bottom of your posts?

    Just for comparison purposes, maybe we can find common gound that not all modern day language translations should be considered simply an 'accent', but may be very beneficial in accurate understanding.

    Matthew 7:3 “Stop judging that you may not be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you. 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to remove the straw from your eye,’ when look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the straw from your brother’s eye.

    No doubt we all can benefit for such clearly stated , easy to understand, wisdom, wouldn't
    you agree?

    Thanks for listening

    (quote)
     
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  12. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Sure, but one cannot exist on milk alone.

    At a certain point we grow up and we require more to exist our "meat and potatos" if you will.

    This is different for every person of course. But to gain a greater understanding it requires us to delve deeper. To delve deeper you can learn multiple different languages and have a huge headache going through that whole process.

    Or you can use a KJV bible and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and cross referrence the original Greek and Hebrew meanings to all of the words in the KJV. Which has helped me to understand better. It works for me so that's what I suggest/stand by.
     
  13. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)

    Hi Enoch
    yes, I have those Bible study aids, as well as many others, and it is always good to research and "make sure of all things". as per
    1 Thessalonians 5:22: Make sure of all things;hold fast to what is fine.

    The learning process will never end. We
    learn more each time we do Bible study, don't you agree?

    However, we can not ever relax our studies, as 1 John 4 clearly shows us: Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    How can we 'test' out Biblical traditions, or teachings that may not come from the Bible, in actuality?

    Thanks for the nice conversation

    (quote)
     
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  14. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I agree, the learning process must never end.

    I admit I struggle with this. My appetite is strong sometimes, and not so strong at other times. I have found that forcing myself to try and learn or grow when I do not have the appetite is counter productive. So I usually only study when I am "hungry".

    I have come across the problem of testing myself. As I have studied some Apocrypha (Book of Enoch, Book of Daniel for instance, amongst others). While I find the stories fascinating and even can see, how they can line up with the Bible. It's hard to say for sure since they are not actually Biblical.
     
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  15. Holdasown

    Holdasown Active Member

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    In the Heathen tradition fate or wyrd is not controlled by the gods. They are subject to it as well. Fate and luck are two different things as well but both are tied to wyrd. Everything that happens is part of fate. I think we have a choice on things. Like to take a job. You can take it or not. That choice guides you to the next choice whatever it may be. But I don't think gods let bad things happen or make good things happen.
     
  16. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Holdasdown
    Interesting perspective. Could you explain your definition of 'fate'? When you say 'gods', may I ask to whom you are referring?

    I have found in the Bible, that there is a 'god of good luck' , (or 'destiny) described, who is in opposition to what I have determined in my belief to be, that God is the Creator said to be 'The True God" of the Bible, the "Almighty".

    Isaiah 65:11, and surrounding verses read differently but similarly in many Bible versions, but it clearly show such things to be detestable to the God of the Bible. Just my thoughts on the matter, but may I ask how you include or define "fate" as a truth-- also, please define 'heathens', if you will...

    Thanks for your patience with my questions
    peace to you

    (quote)
     
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  17. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Enoch
    Many of us are constantly needing to pray for God's Spirit to guide us to delve into and understand His Word. We have the world around us trying to keep our minds occupied on other things, 'entertainment', sports, etc... and at times some of us have to pray and beg the Almighty God to help us to focus on the more important things in this life. At times, we are just tired, and have trouble concentrating, and at other times we are soaking it up like a sponge, I find. :)
    The fact being, however, that as John 17:3 shows Jesus stating to His Father in prayer, it 'means our everlastion life' And we feel uplifted and stronger after we do our studies, don't we?

    Remember, when the current state of affairs on the earth have been accomplished, God promises that there will then be 'new scrolls' opened.... So, it behoves us, imho, to seek undestanding of what we have available to us now.
    If we slack up, we get distracted, and may find ourselves like the virgins who fell asleep and let their lights go out while awaiting entry into the marraige feast of the Bridegroom.
    Let's encourage one another and all whom we can, to keep spiritual things in the forefront of our lives, and make it our habit to 'read God's word daily'. It doesn't have to be indepth, a few chapters at a time will do, or even a few scriptures that we find encouraging, to keep us close to the Word of God.
    Would you agree?

    I like Psalms 37:29, and Proverbs 2:21-22, for quick pick me ups..

    Peace
    (quote)
     
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  18. Holdasown

    Holdasown Active Member

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    Fate would be the path one's life will take. Any of the gods that exist and interact with humans on Earth. Luck is something passed down from one generation to the next. You can do things to try and improve it.
     
  19. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Holdasown (interesting nic--is there a story behind it?)
    I am interested in your comments, although I admit, it is a bit different from anything that I have studied in my Bible searches. for example, you said:
    "Any of the gods that exist and interact with humans on Earth"

    Would that be 'human' gods, or unseen spirit creatures?

    Goes the 'god' need to be alive, or can it be simply an image, or a thing created by men?

    How would they 'interact' with humans?

    thanks for allowing me to ask for your understanding on the matter.

    Peace

    (quote)
     
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  20. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi again, Enoch

    I hope this may be a help for Bible searches, I find it interesting to be able to compare so many different translations, and even be able to check out the interlinear translation from Greek to English. It has been a good 'helper' for finding answers to questions, for me, and I hope it can be of assistance to you as well, in your studies in the Scriptures.

    Website Search | JW.ORG/en/search/?q=read+the+Bible+online


    I hope the weather is tolerable where you are, and that you and yours are warm and well.

    peace

    (quote)
     
    #320 Daisies4me, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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