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What do you make of this?

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Ecclesiastes 12:7

and

James 2:26

and

2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

If you click on the bible verses.It will take you to a page that translates the bible verses for you.:)

I think these bible verses.Say when you die your spirit goes right to God.:)
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Ecclesiastes 12:7

and

James 2:26

and

2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

If you click on the bible verses.It will take you to a page that translates the bible verses for you.:)

I think these bible verses.Say when you die your spirit goes right to God.:)

I wouldn't argue with that.
Some people however (such as JWs) say that the spirit is no more than a life force, that it is not a personal thing for each person, so there is nothing to be absent from the body and go to be with the Lord.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Ecclesiastes 12:7

and

James 2:26

and

2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

If you click on the bible verses.It will take you to a page that translates the bible verses for you.:)

I think these bible verses.Say when you die your spirit goes right to God.:)
Hey Frank.
Looks like you are going back again. :)
Let's try to go forward.
Did you read 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2?
What do you think Paul is saying?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What is "spirit" and what is "God". Unless we have some understanding of these things, the quote is empty rhetoric.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Hey Frank.
Looks like you are going back again. :)
Let's try to go forward.
Did you read 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2?
What do you think Paul is saying?

2Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

If our body, which we live in, is destroyed we have a heavenly body which is immortal and which we will be clothed with so that this mortality will be immortal.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
what is the spirit of man? or for what it maters ,what is the spirit of every living thing ?? its the same as it is in a dog cat mouse or wale . it craves oxygen, with out it ,it quickly fades away . i compare it to a flame of a lit candle .when the flame is snuffed out . where does it go ? no where .its just gone. with out intervention the flame does not return .
this thing we call spirit is the same thing as it is in all living things.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Hey Frank.
Looks like you are going back again. :)
Let's try to go forward.
Did you read 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2?
What do you think Paul is saying?

Well, I am thinking regardless of what Paul said, he and the listeners of his speech, are all asleep/dead and buried, which would make him a false prophet, one you should not fear. Paul also speaks of the judgment seat (2 Cor 5:10), which is the white throne judgment seat, when everyone will have to receive recompense for their deeds whether good or bad, which is to say, they will sleep until resurrection and judgment. That would actually correlate with Revelation 20:12, whereas the dead will rise out of the graves and be judged on the white throne judgment day. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Well, I am thinking regardless of what Paul said, he and the listeners of his speech, are all asleep/dead and buried, which would make him a false prophet, one you should not fear. Paul also speaks of the judgment seat (2 Cor 5:10), which is the white throne judgment seat, when everyone will have to receive recompense for their deeds whether good or bad, which is to say, they will sleep until resurrection and judgment. That would actually correlate with Revelation 20:12, whereas the dead will rise out of the graves and be judged on the white throne judgment day. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
you make it sound like on the day a person is resurrected on that day they go to be judged . any one that has died is acquitted of there sin .
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
what is the spirit of man? or for what it maters ,what is the spirit of every living thing ?? its the same as it is in a dog cat mouse or wale . it craves oxygen, with out it ,it quickly fades away . i compare it to a flame of a lit candle .when the flame is snuffed out . where does it go ? no where .its just gone. with out intervention the flame does not return .
this thing we call spirit is the same thing as it is in all living things.

1Cor 2:10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.…

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Eccles 12:6 Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, 7before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Eccles 3:19 Because the fate of the sons of men and the fate of the beasts is the same. As is the death of one so is the death of the other, and all have one spirit. Man is not higher than the beasts; because all is to no purpose.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
1Cor 2:10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.…

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Eccles 12:6 Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, 7before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Eccles 3:19 Because the fate of the sons of men and the fate of the beasts is the same. As is the death of one so is the death of the other, and all have one spirit. Man is not higher than the beasts; because all is to no purpose.
you used scriptures with two different types of spirit . Eccles 12:6 & Eccles 3:19 refer to biochemical electricity . when it gets shut off only God can turn it back on. Jesus came as an agent of God acting and speaking for God. he did turn the biochemical electricity back on for many . he has done it he will do it again .
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
you make it sound like on the day a person is resurrected on that day they go to be judged . any one that has died is acquitted of there sin .

If every one who sins is acquitted of their sin, why is there a judgment according to ones deeds, good or bad? This white throne judgment is with respect to the end of the millennium.

Revelation 20: 11-13
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Rev 20:14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
If every one who sins is acquitted of their sin, why is there a judgment according to ones deeds, good or bad? This white throne judgment is with respect to the end of the millennium.


its really very simple . its what one has done ''after'' their resurrection that then brings them to the point of receiving a judgment of death . how long of a period of time, i dont know . obviously there is going to be a need for some time for education, imagine finding your self alive after being dead for untold years. every thing is different . there will be a need for some one to tell them what happen and what's a stake .
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
its really very simple . its what one has done ''after'' their resurrection that then brings them to the point of receiving a judgment of death . how long of a period of time, i dont know . obviously there is going to be a need for some time for education, imagine finding your self alive after being dead for untold years. every thing is different . there will be a need for some one to tell them what happen and what's a stake .

No need to wait. I can tell you that "every one will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30), and then after the millennium, the dead will be risen from the dead, and then judged for their deeds (Revelation 20:12). Now you won't have to take an educational loan after you rise from the dead.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

and

James 2:26

and

2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

If you click on the bible verses.It will take you to a page that translates the bible verses for you.:)

I think these bible verses.Say when you die your spirit goes right to God.:)
Can you please quote the verses you are referring to? It's just good form, not putting the need to look things up on the people you are trying to talk to.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
If every one who sins is acquitted of their sin, why is there a judgment according to ones deeds, good or bad? This white throne judgment is with respect to the end of the millennium.

Revelation 20: 11-13
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Rev 20:14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

JWs think people have already paid the price of their sins when they die physically but that is not so.
When people die bodily that is not full death. The soul has not died when they die physically.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

When they are resurrected they are judged to see if they will be given the full sentence of death, with both body and soul being destroyed, or if they will be judged worthy of the Kingdom.
As you can see from what is said below, the nations are judged by what they have done in this life.

Matt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
you used scriptures with two different types of spirit . Eccles 12:6 & Eccles 3:19 refer to biochemical electricity . when it gets shut off only God can turn it back on. Jesus came as an agent of God acting and speaking for God. he did turn the biochemical electricity back on for many . he has done it he will do it again .

Does that mean that you do believe there is another spirit, one that knows our mind etc?

Eccles 3:18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot. For who can bring them to see what will happen after them?

In this passage Solomon is telling us what he sees with his eyes. We listen and learn but then later we see that our spirit does return to God and that our soul does live on after our body dies. (Eccles 12:7, Matt 10:28) God does show us what will happen to us after we die but we do not know what will happen on earth after we die.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
JWs think people have already paid the price of their sins when they die physically but that is not so.
When people die bodily that is not full death. The soul has not died when they die physically.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

When they are resurrected they are judged to see if they will be given the full sentence of death, with both body and soul being destroyed, or if they will be judged worthy of the Kingdom.
As you can see from what is said below, the nations are judged by what they have done in this life.

Matt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Matthew 24:31 is with regard to the coming of the son of man, which happens at the beginning of the millennium. At that time the nations/Gentiles, in which Israel was scattered, will be destroyed (Zechariah 14 & Jeremiah 30:11). That destruction will result in a large portion of the gentile nations being put in the grave for a period of 1000 years before the white thrown judgment. The judgment of Matthew 24:41, will be when the tares, the followers of the message of the devil, the false gospel of grace, the gospel of lawlessness, will be "first" "gathered" and "burned" (Matthew 13:30), in the "furnace of fire" for committing "lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42). You either enter the "kingdom of heaven", which is Spirit and Power now, or you will remain among the walking dead. The "kingdom of God" which relates to Judah and Ephraim being joined under the leader ship of King David, on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:22-28), starts shortly, as Judah and Jerusalem have already been "revised" (Joel 3:1-2), and judgment is on the way.
 
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