What do you guys think of "Progressive Islam"?

[michel]

http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1871_0_25_0_C

The more hostile members of the "moderate majority" began to describe Progressive Muslims as "pro-regressves" - accusing them of taking Islamic discourse back to a state of pre-Islamic jahiliyya (ignorance). Such disfavor stemmed from the fact that Progressive Muslims were declared to be sexually loose, excessively critical of Muslim scholars from the past, and unconcerned with Islamic ritual. My personal belief is that there was, in fact, a sustained campaign of demonization by many conservative Muslims to paint Progressive Muslims as illicit, lewd, and insulting of Islam, and that campaign was successful because the conservative discourse is sadly receptive to such rhetoric. In an article written to prevent female Quranic expert Amina Wadud from leading a group in prayer, GF Haddad, a prominent conservative scholar, likened Progressive Muslims to Dajjal, the Muslim anti-Christ. Conservatives could get away with such blatant demonization. Progressives, on the other hand, were accused of being subversive if they tried to mock such rulings.

What do you think of these people ? Do you believe that this is a "diluted" form of Islam, suitably fashioned to "work" in another culture ? - i.e allowing excuses to be made for behaviour which is not really "Muslim"?

 

[Djamila]

I think their intentions are very important. There is no doubt in my mind that what we see in some conservative countries today, like Saudi Arabia, is not Islam.

You can trace many of these cultural practices back to the Seljuks, who had probably the greatest effect on religion in Arabia since Muhammed himself. In addition, those practices which do have roots in Islam (female modesty, for example) have been so far removed from what was done in the Prophet's time, with the intention of living as the Prophet did, that it's heart-breaking.

I assure you, Khadija did not walk 10 steps behind her husband. I assure you she did need require a male, relative companion to leave the house.

So I think the intention of progressive Muslims, to lead by example and to show the more ridiculessly conservative parts of the Muslim world the potential Islam offers for change, is very important.

As for whether or not I agree with them, I think it's hard to lump all "progressive" Muslims into one group. There are feminists who wear burkas who describe themselves that way, just as there are porn stars. There are professors and theologists who describe themselves that way, just as there are 14-year-olds in suburban France.

I don't agree with all of them, so I can't say I agree with "progressive" Muslims. But I do think the discourse between liberal and conservative - and well as between urban and rural, educated and ignorant - is very important. Islam is strongest when its followers are united and, even if we can't agree, I think it's very important that we know and care for one another.

 

[Laila]

You've summed that up quite nicely Mila, especially "Islam is strongest when its followers are united". You won't find me disagreeing with most of the points you've made.

 

[michel]

I think their intentions are very important. There is no doubt in my mind that what we see in some conservative countries today, like Saudi Arabia, is not Islam.

You can trace many of these cultural practices back to the Seljuks, who had probably the greatest effect on religion in Arabia since Muhammed himself. In addition, those practices which do have roots in Islam (female modesty, for example) have been so far removed from what was done in the Prophet's time, with the intention of living as the Prophet did, that it's heart-breaking.

I assure you, Khadija did not walk 10 steps behind her husband. I assure you she did need require a male, relative companion to leave the house.

So I think the intention of progressive Muslims, to lead by example and to show the more ridiculessly conservative parts of the Muslim world the potential Islam offers for change, is very important.

As for whether or not I agree with them, I think it's hard to lump all "progressive" Muslims into one group. There are feminists who wear burkas who describe themselves that way, just as there are porn stars. There are professors and theologists who describe themselves that way, just as there are 14-year-olds in suburban France.

I don't agree with all of them, so I can't say I agree with "progressive" Muslims. But I do think the discourse between liberal and conservative - and well as between urban and rural, educated and ignorant - is very important. Islam is strongest when its followers are united and, even if we can't agree, I think it's very important that we know and care for one another.

I suppose the question is "Does a religion (a faith) need to be flexible, to accomodate change ?" (but I guess that's going to be the next thread I'll start.

Islam is strongest when its followers are united and, even if we can't agree, I think it's very important that we know and care for one another

That, I can understand fully; but I doubt that some - who call themselves Muslims - have no intentions of doing so; they use the name "Muslim" to excuse their hate of everyone else......but there is nothing new in that - the same applies in any religion.

 

[TashaN]

I think their intentions are very important. There is no doubt in my mind that what we see in some conservative countries today, like Saudi Arabia, is not Islam.

You can trace many of these cultural practices back to the Seljuks, who had probably the greatest effect on religion in Arabia since Muhammed himself. In addition, those practices which do have roots in Islam (female modesty, for example) have been so far removed from what was done in the Prophet's time, with the intention of living as the Prophet did, that it's heart-breaking.

I assure you, Khadija did not walk 10 steps behind her husband. I assure you she did need require a male, relative companion to leave the house.

So I think the intention of progressive Muslims, to lead by example and to show the more ridiculessly conservative parts of the Muslim world the potential Islam offers for change, is very important.

As for whether or not I agree with them, I think it's hard to lump all "progressive" Muslims into one group. There are feminists who wear burkas who describe themselves that way, just as there are porn stars. There are professors and theologists who describe themselves that way, just as there are 14-year-olds in suburban France.

I don't agree with all of them, so I can't say I agree with "progressive" Muslims. But I do think the discourse between liberal and conservative - and well as between urban and rural, educated and ignorant - is very important. Islam is strongest when its followers are united and, even if we can't agree, I think it's very important that we know and care for one another.

I agree with most of your points Mila, but i think your claims about Saudi Arabia is inaccurate because i can point my finger to any Muslim country and show you their errors in applying Islam, if they do apply it in their life, not only at Mosques alone.

 

[mohamedhassan]

well making the label 'progressive muslim' would mean that there is a need for a change in islam, thus progressive. The religion of Islam was revealed in its complete form over 1400 years ago and anyone who disputes that the religion needs any changes can't really call themselves muslim (anyone who tries to change issues like salah, saiyam, Zakah etc...) Yes, the world does advance (e.g: cars instead of camels) but the religion of islam is intact and doesn't need to change itself. In that sense these progressive muslims aren't really muslims then. If accomodation were required then Allah and his messenger (saw) would have informed us of it but there is no evidence of it.

Also just to comment on Djamila, the ayat of men-women relationships were revealed in makkah not mediah and the prophet's wives, in medinah, did wear Jilbaabs!