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What do you do in Heaven?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Meesheltx, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. Meesheltx

    Meesheltx Member

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    I might actually be interested in reading that some time...as soon as I graduate and have time for leisure-reading :p that was a great response, kat!
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    why say that when the bible tells us what the promises are
    And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat [their] fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full ISAIAH 65; 21-22

     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Fair comment. But not many others can build houses and plant vineyards. As the vast majority of all the jobs people currently do will be completely eliminated, I was simply asking what the rest of us will do?
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    who knows what we will be capable of when we are perfect .and we only know imperfection now, and we will be living under the guidance of the best goverment Gods kingdom goverment daniel 2;44 i think the fact that we will build for ourselves is good ,because now we work for others to make a living but hey lets do our own thing instead. and we have forever to learn things not just 70 or 80 years like now just think forever to learn new things:clap
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Does the scripture tell us whether birds and animals and insects and frogs etc will be on this new earth with us?
     
  6. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    Religion:
    Really?
    As I inquired a while back...

    "Foremost, what does one *do* forever? I’m sure Abraham’s bosom is nice and all, but a billion years of that would get a tad tiresome. Beyond being happy to worship and praise the Almighty for trillions of years without end, what kind of job is there to do? One would think that God had all the maintenance and upkeep of heaven handled. I assume there’s nothing to buy or sell in heaven; no need for schools (what else does an immortal need to learn?), no hospitals (no pain, illness, or injury), no firehouses (Hell might have an opening or two, I suppose), no police stations (no evil, right?); no department stores (who needs clothes, shoes, or sunglasses?). There’s certainly no mention of recreational activities of any kind (No football on weekends? Are there weekends?); no restaurants (milk and honey excepted, is there any need of even consuming food when you’re immortal?); no movie theaters; no churches; no cars; no government; and theoretically, no pets. Is the one occupation to be sitting around and shooting the breeze about how happy and joyous everyone is...forever?

    And what about the interpersonal things? Assuming a previous wife makes it to heaven along with your current wife, does everyone share the same house and makeup? What about your ex's hubby/boyfriend? If you ascend to heaven unmarried, are you allowed to date? Since procreation is no longer an issue, is sex allowed (at least the Muslims have that few dozen vestal virgins thing going for them)? Are cigars permitted? Is XO cognac flowing from some endless source (screw that milk and honey for my money)? Can I get french fries with that Big Mac now that I can’t get fat or die? Do ugly people stay ugly in heaven, or do they get a holy "extreme makeover" first? Do babies stay babies, endlessly crying (and doing you know what else), or do they get a “base age” of say, 25 to live out eternity?

    What about entertainment? Again...no movies. No TV. No Nintendo. No magazines. No newspapers (no news). No competitive sports. All winners. No losers.

    Joy. Joy. Joy.

    No agony of defeat - ever (woo hoo!). How about art? Music? Are actors, painters, sculptors, songwriters, singers, musicians even necessary? What do you get to act, paint, sculpt, write lyrics, sing, or perform about besides the Great One Himself? Kinda tough crowd for Blues artists and country songwriters when everyone is eternally happy.

    Where does one GO? Is there a nice beach? Any mountains to climb? How about a pleasant sunlit meadow at the end of a trail through dense woods? Maybe there’s a scenic overlook of Hell somewhere, where you can spit on the poor heretics that didn’t make it (naw, that would be evil, and there ain’t no evil in heaven). Perhaps a diety-provided museum of former Earthly Pains and Pleasures (“C’mon hon, today let’s go to the museum for the 75,895,452,756th time and joyously partake of the exhibits again!”).

    What is IN your house that is so kindly prepared for you? There’s almost certainly no need for a kitchen or dining room; or a bathroom (do immortal souls really need to shave, shower, or pee?); or a bedroom (surely immortals don’t need sleep or sex without procreation); or a den (no TV, no computer - you can always "Google" God, right?); or closets (who needs clothes, and even if you did, would they ever get dirty or sweaty?); or an attic/basement (what are you going to store - you have everything you already need?); no need of furniture (in a land without suffering, chairs with lumbar support are unnecessary); no lighting fixtures (Hey, it’s heaven...complete with eternal divine light!); no need of tables, rugs, bookshelves; no appliances needed; no central heat/ac; no stereo (no iPod?). Maybe the house comes with a nice porch to joyously sit and watch all the other eternally joyous passersby being their eternally joyous, happy, smiling selves.
    “Howya doin'?”.
    “I couldn’t be happier!”.
    “I know! Me too!”.

    So, believers get a one room, one floor doorless house to “live” in, in which there is really nothing to do. And maybe a porch. Who can top that?"

    For trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions of years...(and you thought that one weekend wihout beer was an "eternity"...sheesh!)
     
  7. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    so then it looks like we would be better off on the earth, after all we were created to live on the earth , it was made just perfect for us. i cant wait for the time when the earth is being used in the way it should be. why go to heaven when its better down here .or it will be when the wicked are got rid of
    For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else....isaiah 45;18

    (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it


    (Psalm 115:16) As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.

    And he said to him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise ..luke 23;43




    (Isaiah 11:6) And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them.





    (Isaiah 35:1) The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.​


    (Isaiah 65:17) "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.​


    (Revelation 21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more

     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Adam and Eve were at peace with the animals in Eden—content with vegetation as the food for all​

    God will soon restore Edenic conditions in an earth that will be made a paradise

     
  9. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Before you join the others in attacking me about being anti, I am not. A few years ago I spent the best part of 12 months worshipping and studying with JW in the local Kingdom Hall. It was Post Armageddon that gave me the biggest difficulties.

    After Armageddon there is no work to do. If you take away people working in health care and associated industries, the police and associated industries, security services and associated industries, the Armed Forces and associated industries etc.; there is really very little work left to do.

    It was also not clear whether we would be allowed to slaughter lambs to eat them? Are birds still allowed to kill caterpillars and so on. What will the wolf eat, if he is forbidden to kill lambs?

    Although it is a lovely picture, it never seemed to be a well thought through scheme. As has been said earlier, what age are people? As everybody who has ever lived will be given the option to 'come back to earth', we could have about 30 billion people living here.

    Again, it doesn't seem to matter what you did in life, everyone has the same chance of living in this utopia. So people who have dedicated their lives to the poor, have exactly the same chance as Hitler. In fact, there is no reason why I could not be living with Hitler on one side of me and Genghis Khan on the other side in my new Street.

    "And the sea is no more". Will there then be no fish?

    It is not unreasonable to get people to spell out what their ideas are, as it is Jehovah's Witnesses that have promoted this as a concept.
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the bible gives us the answers to why the world of mankind is in the state that it is.and at the same time giving us the way to better things . the bible tells us the way to gain salvation and how to get back inline with Gods original purpose for the earth , how do we know what God had in line for us back in Adam and eves day , we did not give God the chance did we, we said to God no we will do it our way look how we dont even use all of our brains now, just think when we are perfect we will use all of our brain , i think we have even better times ahead all that we know now is imperfection why would God create a brain then only have us use a very small part of it i cant wait to use all of my brain in line with Gods purpose .who knows we may inhabit other planets but that is only my thoughts now , the bible does not tell us that we will inhabit other planets because at the moment he has got to sort this one out but hey the bible does speak about new scrolls ,but if we dont bother to be around in the new earth for the future, then we will never know what is in the new scrolls
    How grand it will be when the knowledge of God fills the earth! There will be an extensive educational program under the direction of the King Jesus Christ and his 144,000 corulers. New "scrolls" will then come into use. Evidently these are God’s written instructions that will serve as a basis for educating earth’s inhabitants. (Revelation 20:12) Mankind will learn, not war, but peace. All destructive weapons will be gone forever. (Psalm 46:9) ............when the bible says the sea will be nomore it is refering to the sea of mankind now ,which is forever tossing and turning, the heavens refer to new rulership and the earth is the earthly society of people on the globe of the earth
    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. ....revelation 21;1

    The "sea" is symbolic of the wicked element of mankind that will be "no more."

    But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. There is no peace," my God has said, "for the wicked ones ....Isaiah 57;20






     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    This is exactly how I remember it. People were so sure they had all the answers, but not when I asked any questions. I'm sure the above means a great deal to you, and maybe this is a weakness in me, but I do not understand a single word of it.

    Simple questions like: how will we spend our time; will we be resurrected at the age we died, or at a common age; will we have jobs, in which case what if our job has been eliminated; will we eat meat; will birds still slaughter insects; will murderers live next door to ex-nun's; and so on. These questions are in plain English, I never got an answer in plain English. Even if the answer is, "we have no idea", it would be an answer.
     
  12. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    Hello May,

    You said:

    "Better off"? Hmmm...and the provided alternatives are...what and where?

    Seems our planet was getting along just fine before we showed up, and I suspect it'll be around long after our species is extinct.

    I'll skip the scary aspects of that sort of wishful thinking, and just continue...

    I certainly don't see any specified purpose for our planet beyond any other planet or star. If our planet has some special (or Biblically defined) way to be "used", then I assume that the planet Neptune (or say, the Orion nebula) also has a specified (and Biblically defined) purpose as well. If so, then why does Jupiter have 63 (known) moons, yet the Earth have only one? What purpose do asteroids serve, and how does their presence affect our purpose on Earth? If they serve no defined or explained Biblical purpose, then why would/should they exist at all? Do you make a habit of constructing things that serve no apparent purpose? Would Jehovah?

    From a closer, "earthly" perspective; what purpose does a volcano, a hurricane, or sliding continents serve? If the Earth was, as you say, "made just perfect for us"...then why would Jehovah keep messing with it's make-up and appearance? What does the Bible say about the polar regions, and their purpose? Why isn't all of the Earth's water potable?

    "By his grace and Holy Spirit, he directs the thoughts, affections, and designs of good men. By his providence he overrules events, so as to make their way plain."
    -Source: Matthew Henry's Concise Bible Commentary (re: Psalms 37:21-33)

    Which leads to...why make both, if Earth (as you suggest) is to be mankind's ultimate destinational "Heaven"?

    If Jehovah is indeed eternal and everywhere at the same time, why then would He need a "place" to hang out? Why would He require a throne to sit upon, if He is not physical like us?

    Which is where, exactly? In the "Heavens"...a "place" made by God?

    Yawn...

    Las Vegas. Been there, done that.

    So, future inhabitants of Heaven will have imposed amnesia? What then is the point of "lessons learned" in a mortal existence, if past experiences and loves are to be forgotten?

    So, I guess sea bass is no longer on Heaven's menu. No more tuna melt sandwiches. Bummer for you guys.

    At last! Something not from Isaiah, but an excerpted bit of poetry instead. But does it suggest what you think it does? [All commentaries address Psalm 37:29 and associated verses].

    "Verse 29. The righteous shall inherit the land. As heirs with Jesus Christ, the Canaan above, which is the antitype of "the land, " shall be theirs with all covenant blessing. And dwell therein for ever. Tenures differ, but none can match the holding which believers have of heaven. Paradise is theirs for ever by inheritance, and they shall live for ever to enjoy it. Who would not be a saint on such terms? Who would fret concerning the fleeting treasures of the godless?"
    Source: Spurgeon's Treasury of David


    "37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein* for ever.
    [*They will continually be preserved under God's wings, and have at least inward rest.]"

    Source: The Geneva Study Bible


    "....and dwell for evermore; or "thou shalt dwell for evermore"; see Psalm 37:3; that is, in everlasting habitations, in the house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens, Luke 16:9. The Targum is, "that thou mayest dwell in everlasting life."
    Source: John Gill's Exposition

    "Verse (37):27. Dwell - Thou shalt dwell in the land, and afterwards in heaven."
    Source: John Wesley's Bible Notes

    "Verses 21-33...God forsakes not his saints in affliction; and
    in heaven only the righteous shall dwell for ever; that will be their everlasting habitation."
    Source: Matthew Henry's Concise Bible Commentary

    Interesting that NONE of these commentaries suggest that our planet will one day be "Heaven" itself. Heaven is a distinctly different place from Earth, if these noted and quoted theologians know what they're talking about. (Your mileage, and interpretatons, may vary).

    I appreciate your capacity for reciting Scripture as a reflection of your doubtless piety and charming evangelical nature, but none of the verses you offered actually provide Scriptural answer or detail for what one actually does in Heaven (regardless of it's eventual "location").

    "What do you do in Heaven?"

    That's
    the question.

    I'd like to know.

    Wouldn't you?
     
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    i think i already answered that question ,those who are going to heaven will rule with Jesus christ as kings and priests over the earth
    and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth ..revelation 5;10

    (Revelation 20:6) Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years

     
  14. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    Gold toilets...i can guarantee there'll be some of those up there...
     
  15. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    You kneel down for eternity before the golden throne of God, singing his praises until your mouth bleeds, at which point God heals your mouth so you can continue the praise.
     
  16. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    "golden throne". See? i told ya.
     
  17. danhin

    danhin New Member

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    i dont think there are places like heaven or hell, i think once we leave our body we will pass on to an spiritual realm in which we will not be bounded to our physical body, we will be able to do what seamed impossible in the physical world, like flying and stuff. but i think it will all seem like we had a body and so on, because it doesnt make sence any other way
     
  18. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    Religion:
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    Hello May,

    You offered:

    I believe you think you did, but really, you did not.

    "...rule as kings over the earth"?

    What kind of Heavenly reward is that? What kind of job description is that? What are the incumbent responsibilities of such a position? Can one fail as a priest or king in ascending to Heaven? If not, then who cooks the soup (all Indian cheiftans and no warriors?)? If everyone who ascends to Heaven is of equal royalty/piety, then whom or what do they lay singular claim to as rulers? Of what advantage or benefit is it to be a king or priest, when all of your peers are also kings and priests? What flock does the priest tend to, and uniquely lead/teach? What domain inhabited by equal kings does any other king rule; to what extent...and to what degree that isn't already served by God Almighty Himself (the omniscient..."all things to all people", instantly everywhere at all times)? What tasks/responsibilities must God delegate to other ascendant immortal kings/priests that He can't assume for Himself?

    A "thousand years"? Is that supposed to be an impressively all-encompassing measure of "forever"?

    "Forever" is a loooong time. Even if we only account for the first trillion years of "eternity", 1000 years is but 0.00000001% of that time span. If those first trillion years of "eternity" were distilled into 24 hours, then those 1000 years would account for less than one eight-thousandths (0.008) of a second in that span. Heck, a typical human eye blink encompasses a few tenths of a second (Hardly enough time to begin an afterlife career anew, much less utter a prayer of worship to such a benevolent, "alpha-omega" kind of deity).

    If we broaden our scope of "eternity" to a thousand trillion years (of what comparison can we draw to a limitless, unending time frame of reference?), the prospect of a "thousand years of rule" seems even less and less significant compared to..."eternity".

    While I commend your provision of biblical Scripture (and Revelations to boot) in proffered support of (albeit lacking) reply to "What does one do in Heaven?"; the C&V you present only characterizes the "job description" by title itself (in being a "priest of God"). But...what does one DO as a "priest of God"...specifically?

    Which jobs do immortal souls partake of that God cannot effectively administer, or assume for Himself?

    [Ya know..."I don't know" is a most acceptable "answer" lent to any reasonable skeptic. In fact...sometimes...it's the most integrally honest answer available. ;-)]

    If you predictably choose to entreat in rebuttal: "There are some things that we are not "meant" to know/understand", or; "You must believe to understand", or; "This is what I believe, and that's good enough for me (and implicitly therefore, should be "good enough" for myself as well...to accept "on faith", or "trust" alone)...you are herein advised that special pleading and non sequitur evasion (absent any provided corroborative evidence) are most especially unpersuasive and ineffectiive argument (or "testimony") in affecting any prospective religious "conversion" (much less in earning any skeptic's sympathetic agreement/concession).

    [Note: The standing invitation remains open for you to address the unanswerd/unresolved questions put forth in the thread entitled..."So what's so great about a Christian Heaven"?
     
  19. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    offer to give up your spot in heaven to go back to earth and show others the straight path so they may go to heaven also?
    .....after trying out the golden toilets for a while of course. its hard to pass up something like that.
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    As one of JW i only stick to what the bible tells me about those who will be going to heaven , and the bible tells me that is what these ones who go to heaven will be doing , but then again the bible also tells me that it is God who chooses them , and he knows the right ones to choose, it would be those who are willing to go along with his purpose for the earth, and as God knows better than me or anyone else , who am i to question how God is fullfilling his purpose for the earth.
     
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