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why say that when the bible tells us what the promises areMerlin said:Wouldn't it be easier, just to say "I have no idea what we will do after Armageddon".
There will certainly be very little work about
Fair comment. But not many others can build houses and plant vineyards. As the vast majority of all the jobs people currently do will be completely eliminated, I was simply asking what the rest of us will do?may said:why say that when the bible tells us what the promises are
And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat [their] fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full ISAIAH 65; 21-22
who knows what we will be capable of when we are perfect .and we only know imperfection now, and we will be living under the guidance of the best goverment Gods kingdom goverment daniel 2;44 i think the fact that we will build for ourselves is good ,because now we work for others to make a living but hey lets do our own thing instead. and we have forever to learn things not just 70 or 80 years like now just think forever to learn new things:clapMerlin said:Fair comment. But not many others can build houses and plant vineyards. As the vast majority of all the jobs people currently do will be completely eliminated, I was simply asking what the rest of us will do?
Does the scripture tell us whether birds and animals and insects and frogs etc will be on this new earth with us?may said:who knows what we will be capable of when we are perfect .and we only know imperfection now, and we will be living under the guidance of the best goverment Gods kingdom goverment daniel 2;44 i think the fact that we will build for ourselves is good ,because now we work for others to make a living but hey lets do our own thing instead. and we have forever to learn things not just 70 or 80 years like now just think forever to learn new things:clap
so then it looks like we would be better off on the earth, after all we were created to live on the earth , it was made just perfect for us. i cant wait for the time when the earth is being used in the way it should be. why go to heaven when its better down here .or it will be when the wicked are got rid ofs2a said:As I inquired a while back...
"Foremost, what does one *do* forever? Im sure Abrahams bosom is nice and all, but a billion years of that would get a tad tiresome. Beyond being happy to worship and praise the Almighty for trillions of years without end, what kind of job is there to do? One would think that God had all the maintenance and upkeep of heaven handled. I assume theres nothing to buy or sell in heaven; no need for schools (what else does an immortal need to learn?), no hospitals (no pain, illness, or injury), no firehouses (Hell might have an opening or two, I suppose), no police stations (no evil, right?); no department stores (who needs clothes, shoes, or sunglasses?). Theres certainly no mention of recreational activities of any kind (No football on weekends? Are there weekends?); no restaurants (milk and honey excepted, is there any need of even consuming food when youre immortal?); no movie theaters; no churches; no cars; no government; and theoretically, no pets. Is the one occupation to be sitting around and shooting the breeze about how happy and joyous everyone is...forever?
And what about the interpersonal things? Assuming a previous wife makes it to heaven along with your current wife, does everyone share the same house and makeup? What about your ex's hubby/boyfriend? If you ascend to heaven unmarried, are you allowed to date? Since procreation is no longer an issue, is sex allowed (at least the Muslims have that few dozen vestal virgins thing going for them)? Are cigars permitted? Is XO cognac flowing from some endless source (screw that milk and honey for my money)? Can I get french fries with that Big Mac now that I cant get fat or die? Do ugly people stay ugly in heaven, or do they get a holy "extreme makeover" first? Do babies stay babies, endlessly crying (and doing you know what else), or do they get a base age of say, 25 to live out eternity?
What about entertainment? Again...no movies. No TV. No Nintendo. No magazines. No newspapers (no news). No competitive sports. All winners. No losers.
Joy. Joy. Joy.
No agony of defeat - ever (woo hoo!). How about art? Music? Are actors, painters, sculptors, songwriters, singers, musicians even necessary? What do you get to act, paint, sculpt, write lyrics, sing, or perform about besides the Great One Himself? Kinda tough crowd for Blues artists and country songwriters when everyone is eternally happy.
Where does one GO? Is there a nice beach? Any mountains to climb? How about a pleasant sunlit meadow at the end of a trail through dense woods? Maybe theres a scenic overlook of Hell somewhere, where you can spit on the poor heretics that didnt make it (naw, that would be evil, and there aint no evil in heaven). Perhaps a diety-provided museum of former Earthly Pains and Pleasures (Cmon hon, today lets go to the museum for the 75,895,452,756th time and joyously partake of the exhibits again!).
What is IN your house that is so kindly prepared for you? Theres almost certainly no need for a kitchen or dining room; or a bathroom (do immortal souls really need to shave, shower, or pee?); or a bedroom (surely immortals dont need sleep or sex without procreation); or a den (no TV, no computer - you can always "Google" God, right?); or closets (who needs clothes, and even if you did, would they ever get dirty or sweaty?); or an attic/basement (what are you going to store - you have everything you already need?); no need of furniture (in a land without suffering, chairs with lumbar support are unnecessary); no lighting fixtures (Hey, its heaven...complete with eternal divine light!); no need of tables, rugs, bookshelves; no appliances needed; no central heat/ac; no stereo (no iPod?). Maybe the house comes with a nice porch to joyously sit and watch all the other eternally joyous passersby being their eternally joyous, happy, smiling selves.
Howya doin'?.
I couldnt be happier!.
I know! Me too!.
So, believers get a one room, one floor doorless house to live in, in which there is really nothing to do. And maybe a porch. Who can top that?"
For trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions of years...(and you thought that one weekend wihout beer was an "eternity"...sheesh!)
Merlin said:Does the scripture tell us whether birds and animals and insects and frogs etc will be on this new earth with us?
Before you join the others in attacking me about being anti, I am not. A few years ago I spent the best part of 12 months worshipping and studying with JW in the local Kingdom Hall. It was Post Armageddon that gave me the biggest difficulties.may said:
(Isaiah 11:6) And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them.
(Isaiah 35:1) The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.
and the sea is no more
the bible gives us the answers to why the world of mankind is in the state that it is.and at the same time giving us the way to better things . the bible tells us the way to gain salvation and how to get back inline with Gods original purpose for the earth , how do we know what God had in line for us back in Adam and eves day , we did not give God the chance did we, we said to God no we will do it our way look how we dont even use all of our brains now, just think when we are perfect we will use all of our brain , i think we have even better times ahead all that we know now is imperfection why would God create a brain then only have us use a very small part of it i cant wait to use all of my brain in line with Gods purpose .who knows we may inhabit other planets but that is only my thoughts now , the bible does not tell us that we will inhabit other planets because at the moment he has got to sort this one out but hey the bible does speak about new scrolls ,but if we dont bother to be around in the new earth for the future, then we will never know what is in the new scrollsMerlin said:Before you join the others in attacking me about being anti, I am not. A few years ago I spent the best part of 12 months worshipping and studying with JW in the local Kingdom Hall. It was Post Armageddon that gave me the biggest difficulties.
After Armageddon there is no work to do. If you take away people working in health care and associated industries, the police and associated industries, security services and associated industries, the Armed Forces and associated industries etc.; there is really very little work left to do.
It was also not clear whether we would be allowed to slaughter lambs to eat them? Are birds still allowed to kill caterpillars and so on. What will the wolf eat, if he is forbidden to kill lambs?
Although it is a lovely picture, it never seemed to be a well thought through scheme. As has been said earlier, what age are people? As everybody who has ever lived will be given the option to 'come back to earth', we could have about 30 billion people living here.
Again, it doesn't seem to matter what you did in life, everyone has the same chance of living in this utopia. So people who have dedicated their lives to the poor, have exactly the same chance as Hitler. In fact, there is no reason why I could not be living with Hitler on one side of me and Genghis Khan on the other side in my new Street.
"And the sea is no more". Will there then be no fish?
It is not unreasonable to get people to spell out what their ideas are, as it is Jehovah's Witnesses that have promoted this as a concept.
This is exactly how I remember it. People were so sure they had all the answers, but not when I asked any questions. I'm sure the above means a great deal to you, and maybe this is a weakness in me, but I do not understand a single word of it.may said:the bible gives us the answers to why the world of mankind is in the state that it is.and at the same time giving us the way to better things . the bible tells us the way to gain salvation and how to get back inline with Gods original purpose for the earth , how do we know what God had in line for us back in Adam and eves day , we did not give God the chance did we, we said to God no we will do it our way look how we dont even use all of our brains now, just think when we are perfect we will use all of our brain , i think we have even better times ahead all that we know now is imperfection why would God create a brain then only have us use a very small part of it i cant wait to use all of my brain in line with Gods purpose .who knows we may inhabit other planets but that is only my thoughts now , the bible does not tell us that we will inhabit other planets because at the moment he has got to sort this one out but hey the bible does speak about new scrolls ,but if we dont bother to be around in the new earth for the future, then we will never know what is in the new scrolls
How grand it will be when the knowledge of God fills the earth! There will be an extensive educational program under the direction of the King Jesus Christ and his 144,000 corulers. New "scrolls" will then come into use. Evidently these are Gods written instructions that will serve as a basis for educating earths inhabitants. (Revelation 20:12) Mankind will learn, not war, but peace. All destructive weapons will be gone forever. (Psalm 46:9) ............when the bible says the sea will be nomore it is refering to the sea of mankind now ,which is forever tossing and turning, the heavens refer to new rulership and the earth is the earthly society of people on the globe of the earth
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. ....revelation 21;1
The "sea" is symbolic of the wicked element of mankind that will be "no more."
But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. There is no peace," my God has said, "for the wicked ones ....Isaiah 57;20
"Better off"? Hmmm...and the provided alternatives are...what and where?so then it looks like we would be better off on the earth, after all we were created to live on the earth , it was made just perfect for us.
I'll skip the scary aspects of that sort of wishful thinking, and just continue...i cant wait for the time when the earth is being used in the way it should be. why go to heaven when its better down here .or it will be when the wicked are got rid of
Which leads to...why make both, if Earth (as you suggest) is to be mankind's ultimate destinational "Heaven"?For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else....isaiah 45;18
If Jehovah is indeed eternal and everywhere at the same time, why then would He need a "place" to hang out? Why would He require a throne to sit upon, if He is not physical like us?(Psalm 115:16) As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.
Which is where, exactly? In the "Heavens"...a "place" made by God?And he said to him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise ..luke 23;43
Yawn...(Isaiah 11:6) And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them.
Las Vegas. Been there, done that.(Isaiah 35:1) The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.
So, future inhabitants of Heaven will have imposed amnesia? What then is the point of "lessons learned" in a mortal existence, if past experiences and loves are to be forgotten?(Isaiah 65:17) "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.
So, I guess sea bass is no longer on Heaven's menu. No more tuna melt sandwiches. Bummer for you guys.(Revelation 21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.
At last! Something not from Isaiah, but an excerpted bit of poetry instead. But does it suggest what you think it does? [All commentaries address Psalm 37:29 and associated verses].(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
i think i already answered that question ,those who are going to heaven will rule with Jesus christ as kings and priests over the earths2a said:Hello May,
"What do you do in Heaven?"
That's the question.
I'd like to know.
Wouldn't you?
"golden throne". See? i told ya.Halcyon said:You kneel down for eternity before the golden throne of God, singing his praises until your mouth bleeds, at which point God heals your mouth so you can continue the praise.
I believe you think you did, but really, you did not.i think i already answered that question ,those who are going to heaven will rule with Jesus christ as kings and priests over the earth
and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth ..revelation 5;10
A "thousand years"? Is that supposed to be an impressively all-encompassing measure of "forever"?(Revelation 20:6) Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
As one of JW i only stick to what the bible tells me about those who will be going to heaven , and the bible tells me that is what these ones who go to heaven will be doing , but then again the bible also tells me that it is God who chooses them , and he knows the right ones to choose, it would be those who are willing to go along with his purpose for the earth, and as God knows better than me or anyone else , who am i to question how God is fullfilling his purpose for the earth.s2a said:Hello May,
You offered:
I believe you think you did, but really, you did not.
"...rule as kings over the earth"?
What kind of Heavenly reward is that? What kind of job description is that? What are the incumbent responsibilities of such a position? Can one fail as a priest or king in ascending to Heaven? If not, then who cooks the soup (all Indian cheiftans and no warriors?)? If everyone who ascends to Heaven is of equal royalty/piety, then whom or what do they lay singular claim to as rulers? Of what advantage or benefit is it to be a king or priest, when all of your peers are also kings and priests? What flock does the priest tend to, and uniquely lead/teach? What domain inhabited by equal kings does any other king rule; to what extent...and to what degree that isn't already served by God Almighty Himself (the omniscient..."all things to all people", instantly everywhere at all times)? What tasks/responsibilities must God delegate to other ascendant immortal kings/priests that He can't assume for Himself?
A "thousand years"? Is that supposed to be an impressively all-encompassing measure of "forever"?
"Forever" is a loooong time. Even if we only account for the first trillion years of "eternity", 1000 years is but 0.00000001% of that time span. If those first trillion years of "eternity" were distilled into 24 hours, then those 1000 years would account for less than one eight-thousandths (0.008) of a second in that span. Heck, a typical human eye blink encompasses a few tenths of a second (Hardly enough time to begin an afterlife career anew, much less utter a prayer of worship to such a benevolent, "alpha-omega" kind of deity).
If we broaden our scope of "eternity" to a thousand trillion years (of what comparison can we draw to a limitless, unending time frame of reference?), the prospect of a "thousand years of rule" seems even less and less significant compared to..."eternity".
While I commend your provision of biblical Scripture (and Revelations to boot) in proffered support of (albeit lacking) reply to "What does one do in Heaven?"; the C&V you present only characterizes the "job description" by title itself (in being a "priest of God"). But...what does one DO as a "priest of God"...specifically?
Which jobs do immortal souls partake of that God cannot effectively administer, or assume for Himself?
[Ya know..."I don't know" is a most acceptable "answer" lent to any reasonable skeptic. In fact...sometimes...it's the most integrally honest answer available. ;-)]
If you predictably choose to entreat in rebuttal: "There are some things that we are not "meant" to know/understand", or; "You must believe to understand", or; "This is what I believe, and that's good enough for me (and implicitly therefore, should be "good enough" for myself as well...to accept "on faith", or "trust" alone)...you are herein advised that special pleading and non sequitur evasion (absent any provided corroborative evidence) are most especially unpersuasive and ineffectiive argument (or "testimony") in affecting any prospective religious "conversion" (much less in earning any skeptic's sympathetic agreement/concession).
[Note: The standing invitation remains open for you to address the unanswerd/unresolved questions put forth in the thread entitled..."So what's so great about a Christian Heaven"?