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What do you believe in without having any evidence of?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by tomspug, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. LegionOnomaMoi

    LegionOnomaMoi Veteran Member
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    Reality. All possible evidence assumes that it exists.
     
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  2. LAlan56

    LAlan56 New Member

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    Love is defined in the Bible. There are also different Greek words that are translated into English as "love." Non-emotional servant type love --AGAPE-- is commanded by God and is an essential attribute of God (1 John 4:8). This is the type of which Jesus says "Love your enemies." Agape wants the best for the other person.
    Phileo is an emotional type love. It is brotherly or familial type love. From this word comes Philadelphia. In John 21 an interesting exchange takes place between Jesus and Peter that is not noticeable in English. Beginning in verse 15 Jesus asks Peter if he loves (agape) Him more than these? Peter responds "You know that I love (phileo) You" Jesus asks the question a 2nd time with the same response from Peter and as the Lord asks the 3rd time He changes to phileo also.
     
  3. LegionOnomaMoi

    LegionOnomaMoi Veteran Member
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    ἀγάπη was almost entirely the Christian concept of "love". If we look at the greatest Greek lexicon for ancient Greek in general, we find:

    "ἀγάπη, ἡ, love, LXX Je.2.2, Ca.2.7, al.; ἀ. καὶ μῖσος Ec.9.1; dub. l. in PBerol.9859 (ii B. C., Phld.Lib.p.52 O.; of the love of husband and wife, Sch.Ptol.Tetr.52.
    2. esp. love of God for man and of man for God, LXX Wi.3.9, Aristeas 229; φόβος καὶ ἀ. Ph.1.283, cf. Ep.Rom.5.8, 2 Ep.Cor.5.14, Ev.Luc.11.42, al.:—also brotherly love, charity, 1 Ep.Cor.13.1, al.
    II. in pl., love-feast, 2 Ep.Pet. 2.13, Ep.Jud.12.
    III. alms, charity, PGen.14 (iv/v A. D.).
    IV. ἀγάπη θεῶν, title of Isis, POxy.1380.109 (ii A. D.)."

    Compare with the BDAG. This is a fundamentally "brotherly love" or "familial love", yes (as you say) but it is neither "non-emotional" nor is it related to servants or servitude.

    philo described the ownership of one's body parts in Homeric Greek (inalienable possession) and continued to refer to property as well as "friend" from pre-Classical Greek to Koine/Hellenistic. It is less "brotherly" than ἀγάπη.

    You are also missing several lexemes.
     
  4. NulliuSINverba

    NulliuSINverba Active Member

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    Remember: The OP asked if you know that you have no basis for believing in these things aside from someone else's say-so.

    So you know that you have no basis to believe that you could observe stellar parallax and reach a conclusion?

    How do you know that?

    So you know that you have no basis to believe that you could simply test for the presence of iron?

    How do you know that?

    Aside: I think that there is also a test that'll confirm that broccoli contains more "C" than you've indicated above.

    So you know that you have no basis to believe that you could simply visit Japan and confirm its existence?

    What makes you so certain of that?

    So you know that you have no basis for believing that you could make the same observations and calculations that were originally employed to determine the speed of light?

    What makes you so certain of that?

    Harrumph! That's not even a statement of fact.

    File Under: "Straws, Clutching At."

    When did someone else tell you that this was so?
    ...

    Halcyon, I'm giving your list a ...

    [​IMG]

    ... failing grade.

    Practically everything you listed is testable, and therefore (by definition) there is a basis to believe in them aside from someone else's say-so.

    If someone else did it, what do you suppose the odds are that anyone else could eventually reproduce the same results by applying (or by learning to apply) the same methodology that was initially employed in each case?
     
    #84 NulliuSINverba, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  5. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    God is proved within not without
     
  6. Dayman

    Dayman Member

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    Aliens, man, aliens
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    There are no gods.
    There are aliens (not the Earth menacing probulating kind).
    The Venture Brothers will return.

    I'm not sure of any of these, especially the last one.
     
  8. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Okay, firstly - 6 year old post.

    Secondly, the OP was just asking if there are things we believe that we only believe because someone else has given us the information. The things I listed are simply things I believe without personally experimenting/experiencing their reality for myself. I could test broccoli for iron content, I could experiment to prove to myself that the Earth orbits the sun and not vice versa, I could confirm Japan's existence by visiting the country for myself.

    The simple fact remains though that I haven't done any of that. I have no first hand knowledge of any of it, I'm entirely reliant upon what other people have told me regarding those things.
     
  9. NulliuSINverba

    NulliuSINverba Active Member

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    Is that supposed to be relevant somehow?

    The simple fact remains that your list consisted almost entirely of things that are 100% testable. So to claim that you have no basis to believe in them aside from someone else's word seems transparently absurd.

    Do you not believe that you're free to hop on a plane and fly to Japan?

    ...

    The OP wasn't asking you to list things that you only have first-hand experience of anyway.
     
  10. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    People decide when it is testable enough to satisfy their belief. Doesn't necessarily mean they possess the means for others to validate their belief.

    So I suspect somethings based on other things I've tested for myself and what others have claim which support what I've experienced in my testing.

    So I state my experience based on what I've tested whether it can be validated by others or not. I also say what I suspect seeing if others have experienced the same. Best validation I can do for now.

    Not everyone is capable of validating everything. You shouldn't accept anything you can't validate for yourself. However that doesn't mean that just because you aren't able to validate something for yourself, someone else hasn't.

    For example the speed of light in a vacuum. I don't have the means to test this myself. But others have claimed to and I suppose it hasn't been important enough for me to validate the claim. Not really sure how I'd go about it anyway.
     
  11. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    So Philadephia is the city of Body Parts?
     
  12. LegionOnomaMoi

    LegionOnomaMoi Veteran Member
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    No. φῐλᾰδελφία is one word in Greek. It means brotherly love (although it is used very rarely). Also, when φίλος was used to indicate possession ("my thymos", "my phren", "my heart", πατὴρ φίλος/"my father"), it is a specific type of possession called inalienable possession. It also has to be attached to the thing "owned" and only certain kinds of things qualify ("κουρίδιος φίλος" doesn't mean "my husband", just "husband"; lit. "dear wedded [man]"). Thus φίλοι (the nominative plural) doesn't mean "owned things" it means "friends" (or family, or both).

    EDIT: A thought just occured to me: I wish I could say this was the most off-topic post I've ever made. It isn't, but I wish it were. :)
     
    #92 LegionOnomaMoi, Dec 8, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
  13. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

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    When Season 5 was picked up, so was Season 6 (January 2015, baby!). Just takes a long time for the whole animation on such a tiny budget. Also, at the same time 5&6 were set, they also got a deal for a 90 minute special.
     
  14. Cephus

    Cephus Relentlessly Rational

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    Nope, there is nothing. I will not believe in anything unless I have evidence that it is true.
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Go Team Venture!
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    The Universe and all living are pretty much hardcore evidence.:)
     
  17. serenee19

    serenee19 New Member

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    EVERYONE has Faith. Atheist, Jew, Buddhist, everyone.
    Because belief or non-belief in God, gods, no God, is all still FAITH.
    God is a spirit - which can't be proven scientifically to anyone's satisfaction. So that means belief and NON-BELIEF has to rely on Faith.
     
  18. joshua3886

    joshua3886 Great Purple Hippo

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    I believe in intelligent life on other planets. As of right now there isn't any evidence for that. But I don't believe we've ever actually been "contacted" by aliens.
     
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  19. LegionOnomaMoi

    LegionOnomaMoi Veteran Member
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    The "other" part suggests that there is intelligent life on this planet. As of right now, I haven't seen any evidence of that.
     
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  20. jeager106

    jeager106 Learning more about Jehovah.
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    I don't feel any mature, thinking , person would believe something just because
    someone said something was true or existed.
    If you are talking about faith then say so.
    Is that what you meant? Otherwise the question is......ah,......, unclear.
     
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