What do the christians say?

[Anarcho-Rebel]

Egyptians are not noted for their objective histories, if the History channel is to be believed.

Also look at:

http://www.fao.org/news/global/locusts/web04/040405mau1-tb.html

and watch the first video of:

http://www.fao.org/news/global/locusts/Outbreakvideo.htm

Well, I don't feel that a swarm of Locus that actually covered an ENTIRE COUNTRY could go to miss. If it were on the nearly unfeasible scale that is suggested, you could simply dig anywhere and surly you would find their remains en masse.

The links were interesting, but prove nothing, I know locus live in swarms of that scale. But if you go by what is said in the bible that swarm barely makes up 1% of the whole amount.


The links were interesting, but prove nothing, I know locus live in sarwms of that scale.

 

[Anarcho-Rebel]

I agree, most would. However, we will see what happens come the day of vengeance of our God with the prophecy of Revenlation when Christ will return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords with all the power of God. If this happens all former ideas and philosophies of men may pass away.

I guess God doesn't like other peoples ideas and philosophies then? a single unquestionable ruler with omnipotent power? who quite obviously enjoys sacrifice and suffering. Who killed homosexuals and supports sexism, racism and slavery? Why should I be ashamed to be rejected from the kingdom of God. I would rather suffer in hell than bow before those standards.

I am a man of morals.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I am a man of morals.

You mean like mocking an entire group based on their beliefs, these individual people that you are mocking having done nothing to with the horrors you accuse them of?
You seem to be acting with just as much bigotry as you accuse their god of having.

I bow before these morals- no, wait! Before you accuse me of sarcasm, I should point out that my spirit animal is the unicorn, so what I'm really doing when I bow like this is lowering my head to get a better target.

By the way, this god doesn't 'kill homosexuals', if you were referring to Sodom and Gommorah. Take some time to do some research and you might discover that doing so would save you from raging at windmills.

You are playing that double-standard of hatred like a time-worn violin. I'm aiming at that violin, not you.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You know feathers, it's amusing when an intolerant person who believes that only they can be right accuses anyone of being just like them.

 

[BUDDY]

So, what are you looking for exactly? You come across as someone who is putting out a challenge to all comers to argue with you about theism. I am sorry, but I don't have much respect for this type of attitude because it is not one that can honestly promote growth and knowledge. It is simply just a challenge to an argument for argument's sake. Of course there are people in this forum from all types of religious and non-religious backgrounds, but we get along most of the time because we begin from the premise of, "here's what I think, but there is always some sort of possibility that I could be mistaken". Without that type of attitude, I doubt that you will find anything constructive in here. However, if you would like to discuss religion, in a constructive and tactful way, I am more than happy and able to defend my God.

 

[michel]

I guess God doesn't like other peoples ideas and philosophies then? a single unquestionable ruler with omnipotent power? who quite obviously enjoys sacrifice and suffering. Who killed homosexuals and supports sexism, racism and slavery? Why should I be ashamed to be rejected from the kingdom of God. I would rather suffer in hell than bow before those standards.

I am a man of morals.

You claim to be an agnostic;a person who doubts truth of religion,uncertain of all claims to knowledge. Yet you say you'd rather suffer in hell...............?
a) I sincerely hope you won't, my friend
b) I think we are not talking about the |God in which I and many others believe
c) instead of rushing in, guns blazing, why don't you take a deep breath, and tell us exactly what is bothering you, and if you want anything answered, there are some very wise people on this forum. Ask questions, by all means, but I don't think you present approach is going to do you any favours.
I hope you will take heed of what I have said; we (I think I can speak for most people on this Forum) are genuine. If you are confused about things, as it sounds like (God enjoying killing, etc....) and need explanations, maybe one of us can come up with ideas. There is no actual answer - I say that from my point of view; I cannot prove anything, but I do believe in a lot of good and bad things.
The ball is in your court.

 

[Anarcho-Rebel]

You mean like mocking an entire group based on their beliefs, these individual people that you are mocking having done nothing to with the horrors you accuse them of?
You seem to be acting with just as much bigotry as you accuse their god of having.

No, Im not racist, sexist, homophobic, nor do I stop anyone having their opinions. Also, I never accused God of mocking, and never stated that to be a bad quality.

I bow before these morals- no, wait! Before you accuse me of sarcasm, I should point out that my spirit animal is the unicorn, so what I'm really doing when I bow like this is lowering my head to get a better target.

A unicorn is an animal of fiction. My spirit animal is myself, I don't put faith in fairy tale creatures. And before you say anything, after admitting to supporting Racism, Sexism and other such prejudices, don't expect me to be friendly.

By the way, this god doesn't 'kill homosexuals', if you were referring to Sodom and Gommorah. Take some time to do some research and you might discover that doing so would save you from raging at windmills.

Leviticus

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22


If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included in Paul's list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

You are playing that double-standard of hatred like a time-worn violin. I'm aiming at that violin, not you.

I don't have double standards other than the ones you've misinterpreted from me. I have no problem with hatred, its just a human reflex.

 

[Anarcho-Rebel]

You claim to be an agnostic;a person who doubts truth of religion,uncertain of all claims to knowledge. Yet you say you'd rather suffer in hell...............?

Than box to racist or generally prejudice morals, yes.

a) I sincerely hope you won't, my friend

Well, thanks.

b) I think we are not talking about the |God in which I and many others believe

Im talking of God as his he is mentioned in his only reference, the bible. Any other interpretations are simply, cultist. Unless derived from other ancient text or philosophies.

c) instead of rushing in, guns blazing, why don't you take a deep breath, and tell us exactly what is bothering you, and if you want anything answered, there are some very wise people on this forum. Ask questions, by all means, but I don't think you present approach is going to do you any favours.
I hope you will take heed of what I have said; we (I think I can speak for most people on this Forum) are genuine. If you are confused about things, as it sounds like (God enjoying killing, etc....) and need explanations, maybe one of us can come up with ideas. There is no actual answer - I say that from my point of view; I cannot prove anything, but I do believe in a lot of good and bad things.
The ball is in your court.

Well, thanks, seriously, for your kindness. One thing that has stood out immediately is that while other, more dogmatic and close minded members have told me I will bow in hell, more progressive and intelligent ones like yourself are much more constructive.

Basically, my question is this;

So there's no evidence that a God exists. There's hits that he might, and that he might not. Therefore to fully believe in him or disbelieve in him seems, premature. Im not saying he doesn't exist, but not saying he does. This to me (someone brought up in a catholic school, and a once regular church go-er) seems the only logical option.

This being the case, tell me what it is that justifies your belief in God? what validates your religion above others? Im not asking for proof that the biblical stories are true, or that atheism is flawed. Im just asking what makes Christianity more valid than say, Buddhism, or Islam.

Hopefully, we can build from there.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Halcyon]

This being the case, tell me what it is that justifies your belief in God? what validates your religion above others? Im not asking for proof that the biblical stories are true, or that atheism is flawed. Im just asking what makes Christianity more valid than say, Buddhism, or Islam.

My justification is that i want to, surely if it makes me happy its the only justification that i need?

I don't think many modern Christians think other faiths are less valid, someones faith is usually a result of their culture and upbringing. You should ask yourself what makes someone switch religions or turn from atheist to theist, surely they must have good reasons?

 

[linwood]

And before you say anything, after admitting to supporting Racism, Sexism and other such prejudices, don't expect me to be friendly.

You should really re-think that one .
Accusing Feathers of supporting intolerance of any kind doesn`t even anger me.
It send me into gales of laughter.

You are judging people with less information about them than those who judged wrongly in the scriptures you quote had about the source of their intolerance.

This to me (someone brought up in a catholic school, and a once regular church go-er) seems the only logical option.

Why is it lost Catholics always make the most militant non-believers?
I say this in reference to myself as well as you anarcho.

Therefore to fully believe in him or disbelieve in him seems, premature.

I would say holding the position of agnostic is denying what you do believe.
If I were to say that i`d get a pretty good argument to the contrary.
I`m just lucky Deut is AWOL and TVOR hasn`t been around much.


The answer is that they just believe it Anarcho and attacking like this ain`t gonna sway anyone.
I can relate to your position.
Do I find the belief in what can only be verified as a fairy tale kinda silly?
Yes, I do quite often, but not as much as I used to
There`s no more reason to shove that in someones face unprovoked than there is for a believer to tell me I`ll burn in hell or bend my knee to a God I don`t believe in and or feel is morally corrupt.
Save the righteous anger for when it`s actually righteous.

There are enough opportunities for it in todays world already.

 

[jewscout]

Im just asking what makes Christianity more valid than say, Buddhism, or Islam

However all but one quote you used in this entire thread comes from Judaism, and many of the quotes in your original posts have to do w/ the 613 mitzvot that Jews are commanded to follow...

I am not an atheist, and I respect your right to freedom of religion

Im not trolling, though perhaps you could say im looking for a debate, that's not entirely true, really I just like reading the absurd responses that people come up with to defend their Gods.

You'll have to forgive me if i find that statement a bit disrespectful and, frankly, hypocritical. If you got a problem w/ organized religion that's cool, if you want to have an open debate on the topic that's cool too, but there's no need to be a smarta$$ about it...

That being said as far my beliefs go there is no hell so there is no reason for you to be concerned about going there...nor should you concern yourself w/ the afterlife, just focus on being a good person...

 

[Feathers in Hair]

A unicorn is an animal of fiction. My spirit animal is myself, I don't put faith in fairy tale creatures.

I'll could take issue with the fact that your spirit animal is yourself, but, but it is unimportant to this thread.

And before you say anything, after admitting to supporting Racism, Sexism and other such prejudices, don't expect me to be friendly.

That is, of course, your right. However, I'm not sure where I admitted to supporting such things. Of course, you're spot-on. My lesbian lover and I hate all white people, especially Christians, but I'm thinking of dumping her because I'm homophobic, too. *snaps fingers* Oh, and I forgot! I totally support the suppressing of the female gender! Down with me! :jam:

Ah, well. As Linwood so kindly put it, your accusations are so far from the truth that they don't even anger me (or make me cry, like I normally do when someone says something unkind). They send me giggling. Naturally, that might be your impression of me if you've only been in this one thread.

I only wish we had met under better circumstances. I know the Christians and others are more than capable of dealing with someone being unkind to them, so I will let them deal with you. I will not invite your negativity into my spirit.

I hope that your life is filled with joy and peace.

 

[Joannicius]

Firstly I'd like to say hi, as a new agnostic member im not sure if i'll fit in well. Im not trolling, though perhaps you could say im looking for a debate, that's not entirely true, really I just like reading the absurd responses that people come up with to defend their Gods.

As the title suggest im going to discuss Christianity. Riddled with complete inconstancy, contradictions and absurdity.

Things like the fact that God created light and separated light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5

THIS IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE WORD LIGHT, WHICH IS UNCREATED LIGHT IN THIS INSTANCE ! !​

He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars, and the rest of the universe. 1:16

Do you think your diatribe is an afront to the Creator, I find this point humerous. Maybe He does also.​

Also, when Lot's nameless wife looked back, God turned her into a pillar of salt. 19:26. Thats all very well, but if my scientific education has taught me anything; its that you cannot physically convert the atomic structure of a human into salt. Let alone instantly.

You really can't accept one who has more power than you can concieve, huh?​

Many of the characters in the bible live ridiculously long lives, Abraham lived to be 175 years old. 25:7 and Ishmael lived 137 years. 25:17

You didn't mention Methuselah 969 years ​

and ditto on the comment, as above.​

In one part of the bible (Exodus?) God shows Moses some tricks that he says are sure to impress. First: Throw your rod on the ground; it will become a snake. 4:2-9 Then grab the snake by the tail and it will become a rod again. 4:4 - Do i need to say anything?

Ditto on above, and by the way the snake that came from the staff Moses​

had ate/consumed the snakes of the "magicians or tricksters"​

​

The Eighth plague: locusts that are so thick that they "covered the face of the whole earth." (Even over Antarctica?) 10:4-5 thats just stupid. And in any case, why does God send plagues? So that people can get to know him better. 9:14

He sends plagues to the ones who hate him and the ones who love him alike,​

that He may show the ones who hate Him how much the ones who love Him, love Him.​

​

Moses goes without food or water for 40 days and 40 nights. 34:28 ....how?

He was one of thousands who did the same​

seeking to know the one who made them,​

the knowing that is above the carnal or mental.​

​

​

Clams, oysters, crabs, lobsters, and shrimp are abominations to God. 11:10-12

You are angry, aren't you?​

God tells the Israelites that the fruit from fruit trees is "uncircumcised" for three years after the trees are planted. 19:23, so he sure knows what he's talking about.

You mean YOU KNOW what He is talking about !​

But it doesn't stop there, there's also plenty of injustice.

HE will straighten all that out, just watch !​

Handicapped people cannot approach the altar of God. They would "profane" it. 21:16-23

He already straightened that out in Christ !​

"that ALL may come and dine"​

​

Anyone with a "flat nose, or any thing superfluous" must stay away from the altar of God. 21:18

See above​

God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

If you make something, you have the right to do what is best.​

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

I have to agree with Him on that one, I guess you don't.​

Women are not to wear men's clothing -- it's an "abomination unto the Lord." 22:5, define men's clothing.

IMHO He is saying for us not to act as someone we aren't.​

Jacob has two wives and two concubines, continuing the biblical tradition of polygamy. 32:22

I was married to one for 24 years and will let that one slide..although​

obviously Christ show us a better way.​

​

If a man dies before his wife has a child, then the widow must marry her husband's brother -- whether she likes him or not, and whether she wants to or not. 25:5

Wow, you have really built a chip, eh? IMHO God was interested in the kids​

being raised (reared, as we use to say) in a home with a "Dad"​

​

The feet of strange women "go down to death," and "her steps take hold on hell." 5:3-5

I can attest to that one....been there, done that.​

Of course dear David can also ! !​

Well, im going to end it here give the christian camp time to digest and reply. I'll check back soon.

You are quite lengthy, I must admit. I enjoyed the "conversation"​

(I shouldn't have eaten so late)​

:bonk:​

 

[michel]

Than box to racist or generally prejudice morals, yes.


Well, thanks.


Well, thanks, seriously, for your kindness. One thing that has stood out immediately is that while other, more dogmatic and close minded members have told me I will bow in hell, more progressive and intelligent ones like yourself are much more constructive.

Basically, my question is this;

So there's no evidence that a God exists. There's hits that he might, and that he might not. Therefore to fully believe in him or disbelieve in him seems, premature. Im not saying he doesn't exist, but not saying he does. This to me (someone brought up in a catholic school, and a once regular church go-er) seems the only logical option.

This being the case, tell me what it is that justifies your belief in God? what validates your religion above others? Im not asking for proof that the biblical stories are true, or that atheism is flawed. Im just asking what makes Christianity more valid than say, Buddhism, or Islam.

Hopefully, we can build from there.

[/QUOTE]
Well, thank you for the compliment; it is truly appreciated. I cannot see that any other forum member has been unsympathetic towards you with the exception of the rather 'Vociferous' attitude (it felt like that - maybe I misinterpreted it like others - if so, double apology, my friend)in your introduction thread.

As you say, we can now build on a better understanding of mutual respect. You ask:- QUOTE[This being the case, tell me what it is that justifies your belief in God? what validates your religion above others? Im not asking for proof that the biblical stories are true, or that atheism is flawed. Im just asking what makes Christianity more valid than say, Buddhism, or Islam].

The only difficult part of your multy faceted question is why I believe in God. I am afraid I shall have to resort to the well used 'because I do'; if you want proof positive about the existance of God, you're going to be sorely disappointed my friend. I am sure you already know that.
What validates my religion above others?
My religion is not above others. I hope that it is on the same level as others, and I personally have no problem whatsoever with Christianity, Buddhism, or Islam. I embrace them all to come up with a 'composite'. Besides, when you strip the 'finery' from all religions, they basically believe in the same thing - it is merely the language, the interpretation that changes. There is so much wisdom in all religions that it 'hurts' to see in fighting between very domatic people.
However that is their choice.
I hope that helps, but if I am always here to answer questions as best I can - although there are far wiser people than I on this forum.

 

[Anarcho-Rebel]

My justification is that i want to,

Said Hitler to the jews? Because according to reverse logic, I could then say my justification for stopping you is because I don't want you to. And thus we have worked out the circular mind of the imbecile.

I don't think many modern Christians think other faiths are less valid, someones faith is usually a result of their culture and upbringing.

In other words there absolutely no real logical intelligent reason to follow christianity other than, your culture pressurised you into it.

You should ask yourself what makes someone switch religions or turn from atheist to theist, surely they must have good reasons?

Fear? perhaps its a failure to grasp the universe? or maybe simply that they fear death, and embrace the fragile nature of the human mind, they bow to their weaknesses.

From my experiance; people that put faith in God, loose faith in themselves.

 

[Anarcho-Rebel]

My religion is not above others. I hope that it is on the same level as others, and I personally have no problem whatsoever with Christianity, Buddhism, or Islam.

But many religions state that if you do not believe in their ways, then you are a blasphemer and will go to hell. By what you've just said I must presume that whatever religion I follow, the others will send me to hell. Brilliant.

Presuming there is a God. So far your only justification is within your own self made logic, that's fair enough, but it also suggests that if I reject him in my mind, aka, I say 'I don't believe in him because I don't want to' , then that's just as fair. Thus its stupid to choose eather.

 

[jewscout]

But many religions state that if you do not believe in their ways, then you are a blasphemer and will go to hell. By what you've just said I must presume that whatever religion I follow, the others will send me to hell. Brilliant.

Presuming there is a God. So far your only justification is within your own self made logic, that's fair enough, but it also suggests that if I reject him in my mind, aka, I say 'I don't believe in him because I don't want to' , then that's just as fair. Thus its stupid to choose eather.

If this an attempt at starting an arguement i think you've come to the wrong forum sir...i'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find the kind of christians here who you really want to debate with...Rex and the other Mods have made a good point of getting the proselytizers out of RF...
condeming people to hell isn't something we particularly care for here....

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But many religions state that if you do not believe in their ways, then you are a blasphemer and will go to hell. By what you've just said I must presume that whatever religion I follow, the others will send me to hell. Brilliant. Presuming there is a God. So far your only justification is within your own self made logic, that's fair enough, but it also suggests that if I reject him in my mind, aka, I say 'I don't believe in him because I don't want to' , then that's just as fair. Thus its stupid to choose eather.

I recommend that you strive to say at least one thing coherently.

 

[Joannicius]

But many religions state that if you do not believe in their ways, then you are a blasphemer and will go to hell. By what you've just said I must presume that whatever religion I follow, the others will send me to hell. Brilliant.

Presuming there is a God. So far your only justification is within your own self made logic, that's fair enough, but it also suggests that if I reject him in my mind, aka, I say 'I don't believe in him because I don't want to' , then that's just as fair. Thus its stupid to choose eather.

IMHO

I think you are mad at the God that has been represented to you ​

and you are looking for God to love and know love, ​

as most are.​

I pray for you and for your quest, if that is what it is !​

As I've stated before on this forum, I don't believe there is such a thing as an atheist,
just ones who don't love God for whatever reason.​

And it is important that we judge NO ONE as we are not the judge.​

We should leave that to the one who made us.​

Peace and Grace to you​

 

[No*s]

I'm beginning to think we need a sign that says "Please don't feed the trolls."