Please tell what are the requirements and why do you believe so?
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What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Please tell what are the requirements and why do you believe so?
This is only half what Paul says. He says he wishes all were virgins. This is absurd. He elevates virginity above marriage. As I pointed out, this is nonsense. He basically says marriage is a concession. It is not. It is the ideal state and G-d never said virginity is better than marriage. It is not better to live without sex. Sex is healthy and normal and forgoing it is not, but Paul would ideally have everyone do just that. This idea that in order to dedicate fully oneself to G-d one must forgo all earthly pleasures is crazy asceticism and it is not the ideal life for man.That is exactly what I was pointing out....Paul himself said it is OK to marry....”better to marry than to be inflamed with passion”. (1 Corinthians 7:1-8)
Arguing from ignorance is what creates unnecessary misunderstandings.Marriage is God’s arrangement.
I'll respond to your other quote when I'm on my laptop.
Gather the lost tribes back to Israel.
Be a King.
Build and partake in the 3rd Temple.
Everyone will know the G-d of Israel is the G-d and there will be no need to tell others of Him.
Peace in Israel.
Deuteronomy 28's Curse is the Diaspora among the Gentiles, next is the Holy Fire globally (Deuteronomy 29); if we read its contextually applied by Isaiah 34 to the world - to catch all the Ravenous Beings within it.
In Deuteronomy 30:1-10 where the Tribes are brought back, and there is an everlasting covenant of Peace made (Ezekiel 34), is at the same time as the Resurrection of the Dead.
This is then the same contextual timeline as Zoroastrian, and Hindu texts predict as well; the reality is cleansed, and then the enlightened saints are brought back after.
In my opinion.
It wasn’t my question. It was the suggestion of a Jewish poster to examine the reasons why Jews cannot accept Jesus as Messiah. I just took up the suggestion because I am interested in hearing the reasons and the scripture behind them.
You can refuse to buy whatever you like.....but are you just confirming that you have the rather close minded Jewish attitude?
And you are going to tell a JW about being attacked?
We are a meagre 8.5 million and no stranger to persecution ourselves. We were there in the death camps with the Jews. Please don’t play the victim with me. It is not constructive.JW’s are no part of Christendom because, in our opinion, they do not represent genuine Christianity. We hold more in common with ancient Jewish beliefs, (as Jesus taught) than we do modern Judaism, which seems to us to be a departure from ancient (original) Jewish beliefs and practices.
By closing our minds, we close our hearts.....I want an open and frank discussion so that we can understand each other’s position. I want it backed up by scripture, not by man made traditions.....so if you can’t contribute to that, then please keep your negative attitude out of my thread.
Paul was addressing men and women who wanted to serve the Lord by devoting themselves to the work that Jesus assigned them. (Matthew 10:11-15; Matthew 28:19-20) He was not anti-sex, or anti-marriage...he was suggesting that those who wanted to serve God without distraction would be better off, like Jesus and himself, devoted to God’s service without the demands of a wife (or husband.)
1 Corinthians 7:25-28
“Now concerning virgins, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who had mercy shown him by the Lord to be faithful. 26 Therefore, I think that it is best for a man to continue as he is in view of the present difficulty. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Stop seeking a release. Are you freed from a wife? Stop seeking a wife. 28 But even if you did marry, you would commit no sin. And if a virgin married, such a person would commit no sin. However, those who do will have tribulation in their flesh. But I am trying to spare you.”
Only married people know of the “tribulation” that is peculiar to marriage. It’s not all rosey.
He goes on to say.....(v29-35)....
“29 Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. . . .for the scene of this world is changing. Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. The unmarried man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord’s approval. 33 But the married man is anxious for the things of the world, how he may gain the approval of his wife, 34 and he is divided. Further, the unmarried woman, as well as the virgin, is anxious for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in her body and in her spirit. However, the married woman is anxious for the things of the world, how she may gain the approval of her husband. 35 But I am saying this for your personal advantage, not to restrict you, but to move you to what is appropriate and to constant devotion to the Lord without distraction.”
These recommendations are clear and the reasons for them perfectly reasonable. Who says they are not?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That directly contradicts a command that was repeated multiple times. Good never said that, Jesus never claimed or promoted it. It is entirely Paul.
Except he contradicts Jesus so frequently over so many things he can only be described as one of the false prophets Jesus warned about.
It's no misunderstanding. Paul said it's best to not get married and refrain from sex. God and Jesus never suggested such an unhealthy thing.Arguing from ignorance is what creates unnecessary misunderstandings.
The TaNaKh also says that would always be some among the Jews that were getting it right. Furthermore the Prophets confirm that Moses gave both a Written and Oral Law. The Oral Law isn’t a “tradition” it is Law. That’s not opinion, that’s fact.That isn't strange, Moses prophesied that the later generations would face completely opposite to everything he stated (Deuteronomy 31:24-29); as by the time he came down mount Sinai they'd already gone opposite.
They think they are so smart, they've corrupted everything by assuming they know more than God's prophets, and making up their own Oral Traditions instead (Isaiah 29:9-14).
In my opinion.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The god who never suggested them and pretty much just about every mental health professional. He wants people to get married and have kids, not refrain from them. God I'm sure would have such himself had he wanted it, rather than time and time again telling people to be fruitful and multiply. Even his prophets, in fully serving god, were promised with descendants who wpupd be as numerous as the stars in the sky.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Just a note: These words should probably not be put together this way.... it shuts down the conversation. Perhaps "a closed minded attitude" instead of "the close minded Jewish attitude".
Who said anything about genetics? But the best interpretation of a religion’s writings are indeed from the cultural origins of those writings. Jews received and wrote the TaNaKh. Its interpretations were established long before Christianity. To suggest that the true and “correct” interpretation is some new re-interpretation is strange and weird, as I wrote.
The entire “second coming” is a concept made of whole cloth. It has no basis in the TaNaKh. Indeed the idea that a second coming is needed is an implicit admission that one is needed because Jesus of Nazareth did not fulfill the scriptural requirements of the moshiach.
Daniel 9 has nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth.
The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9: Ask the Rabbi Response
Are admitting you don’t already know what the requirements are? If so, then you can’t know that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled them?
But just to help you out, read this
The Jewish Concept of Messiah and the Jewish Response to Christian Claims
Paul is setting up a pretty false dichotomy here. He's essentially saying that unmarried religious people are more devoted and less distracted and that the opposite is true for wed folks. This is clearly not the case. Both groups are obviously concerned with worldly things as we need them to live. Likewise as I've said, virgins are going to be more distracted by their sexual energies. Women especially are prone to becoming depressed at a certain time when they become older and have no children, they start desperately wanting children. This can lead to all sorts of horrible outcomes. Men may act out violently or in unconventional ways. They may masturbate in secret or even do it in their sleep as women may do. Without partners people become depressed. Nothing can replace sexual-romantic love and having children. G-d made us this way and it's not a mistake or a personal failing. It's not that a certain few can live without these things and spend their whole lives in religious ivory towers - it's that they shouldn't have to, are not commanded to and will gain no benefit from this unnecessarily cruel lifestyle whatsoever. They can be just as close to The Eternal were they married, if not closer as they are happier, satisfied, likely have children and someone to love. This is how G-d made it.
Jewish males are also commanded to have at least two children, a boy and a girl.
Tehillah 127 says,
Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Jesus said that the teaching done by the Jews of his time, which are still taught today, were right and that the people should do as the Jewish leaders taught. Also Jesus observed the Oral Law himself. See John chapter 10 for an example.I am at present looking into some links posted by @rosends....I’ll get back to these as soon as I have time to research the scriptures. There was quite a bit to get through.
That would quite possibly be because of the bad wrap that Jesus gave the Jewish leaders about their interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. He said that they had invalidated the word of God because of their oral traditions, putting these in place of it....so perhaps Jesus did know the Hebrew Scriptures better than the Jewish leaders did. That is not hubris....it’s an uncomfortable truth that led those leaders to plot his death. You know that this was not an unusual position taken by the Jewish leadership down through history. What prophet did they ever listen to?Their track record is all recorded in those Jewish scriptures.....did the leopards change their spots? You tell me.....
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
My question would be why ask at all.
This question has been asked to death on RF and the Internet as a whole.
Our position has not changed and will not changed.
The continued questioning seems to me like trying to wear us down till we crack.
Why would you reduce my "close mindedness" to me being Jewish?
Can't it just be that I am simply close minded and it has nothing to do with me being Jewish?
Of course it can't. You have shown again and again that you characterise us as a monolith.
Which doesn't surprise me, it has been the standard of Christian interaction with us for the last 1900 years.
And you are going to tell a JW about being attacked?
Is this supposed to be another joke or just a simple lie?
Not a single JW ever saw a death camp from the inside.
From the ~11.300 JWs incarcerated some ~2.000 were in concentration camps.
Of these ~1.490 were murdered.
JWs were not to be exterminated. That is simply not true.
It also trivialises the Shoah.
JWs were incarcerated for their beliefs, if they renounced these beliefs they would've been free to go.
We were in for being Jews. Our beliefs didn't matter.
So uhm don't lie and don't try to be a victim.
So you are Judaizers.
Nothing new, your Christian heresy comes around every few hundreds of years.
I quite honestly doubt that you can stomach Jewish opinions about Christianity.
Whenever we voice those Christians tend to get really whiny.
See any thread ever on this subject.
It's usually the worst when the Christian(s) in question believe that we have a lot in common. They start to feel rejected an switch to open hostility.
I have been here far too long for that game.
And man made traditions? You probably think you are really smart with that.
You aren't. Christians (especially Judaizers) call us Talmudists all the time and how we made up rules and all that.
Nothing new. Just regular Christian stuff.
It's like you are just a Christian.
Sorry, I didn’t mean for that to sound the way it did.....but there is just something about the Jewish mindset that goes beyond all reason to me. I have been reading up on the various Sabbath laws and their modern application and I can’t help but see an unquestioning acceptance of things that go so far beyond God’s commands, that I can’t understand how any person with any reasoning ability could follow through on things that were never commanded by God in the first place. This is a unique Jewish mindset.....I have never encountered it to such an extreme degree with any other faith.
Isaiah spoke of those who taught the commands of men as though they were from God. (Isaiah 29:13) Jesus applied that scripture to the Pharisees (Matthew 15:7-9)......I can’t help but think he is right. Can you provide me any real evidence that God intended his laws to be taken to such a degree without him ever directly telling the Jewish leadership to do any of it. These are the commands of men dressed up as the word of God.....how are they not?
Please help me out here.....
As already posting Isaiah 29:9-14 i.e. Yeshayahu and Yehoshua (Mark 7:1-13) both say the Oral Traditions are made up.
Zechariah 11:15-17 prophesied that the idolatrous shepherds (Rabbi) would 'feed themselves', and not the flock, until the return of the Messiah in Ezekiel 34.
Thus the Rabbi have supplanted their own teachings, even Leviticus was made up in Babylon by them; so we have many who do not follow what Moses instructed in the slightest (Ezekiel 20:25).
Zechariah 12:4, and Deuteronomy 28:28-29 says that the Jews are blinded under the Curse, and only those who accept the Salvation of God will be here in the Messianic Age (Deuteronomy 32:15-22).
By definition someone can not be a Rabbinic Jew in modern times, and say we accept Yeshua, so unfortunately the Rabbi have made that statement null and void.
It is possible for a Karaite Jew to accept Yeshua, understand how 'jesus' is prophesied in the Tanakh in contrast (Isaiah 51:8), and be going the right direction; yet it takes study, and most are so brainwashed already, they don't know how to think rationally.
As the person sent from Heaven with the new name of the Messiah before the Great Tribulation, it is prophesied I can explain it on the clouds, on lightning in the sky to those who want to understand (Revelation 3:18).
In my opinion.
Spartan
Well-Known Member
You're welcome to your opinion. You have your Rabbis and I have mine that support the 2nd Coming.
As for Daniel, ancient rabbis agreed Daniel 9 spoke of the Messiah.
The Great Maimonides (Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon) noted: "Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise [rabbis] have barred the calculation of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah" (Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 p.24.)
"Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi: "I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures and have not found the time for the coming of Messiah clearly fixed, except in the words of Gabriel to the prophet Daniel, which are written in the 9th chapter of the prophecy of Daniel (The Messiah of the Targums, Talmuds and Rabbinical Writers, 1971) p.141-142.