What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[Shadow Wolf]

Look who's judging - you.

Like I told you before, you kick all evidences about Jesus and the NT to the curb. That's what you do and are.

Interesting: You have resorted to a personal comment--one that presumes rip know my thought process--instead of, and failing to dry again, provide the requested definition.
And, by the way, I don't have this issue with other Christians here.

 

[Harel13]

not the ones who were clearly off the rails in Jesus’ day

Because wreaking havoc in the Temple is a totally sane thing to do.

 

[wizanda]

Because wreaking havoc in the Temple is a totally sane thing to do.

The Sadducees were exploiting the people to pay the Romans high taxes; there were many Rebel Jewish groups, Yeshua's protests as a leader from the Essenes was perfectly in keeping with prophecy.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

The Sadducees were exploiting the people to pay the Romans high taxes

I very much doubt that.

 

[wizanda]

I very much doubt that.

Yeah because history doesn't matter, when we have belief.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

Yeah because history doesn't matter, when we have belief.

In my opinion.

No, I don't think what you said is historical fact.

 

[Deeje]

Because wreaking havoc in the Temple is a totally sane thing to do.

It is when people are openly turning God’s house of worship into a place to conduct their commercial business. Jesus said that the sellers and money changers were operating like “den of thieves” IOW they were extorting money from their own brothers, selling animals for sacrifice at a fat profit right there in the Temple. What Jesus demonstrated is called righteous indignation....something the religious leaders failed to display whilst they were nit picking with Jesus’ disciples about hand washing.....’gnats’ and ‘camels’ again.....

 

[Harel13]

What Jesus demonstrated is called righteous indignation

Just wondering if you would say the same about the following situation:
There's a church priest who has supposedly been embezzling money from the church. One day, a congregation member bursts into the church, starts smashing windows, overturning benches, throwing crosses on the ground, etc, shouting "Justice!"

What would you say about that?

 

[Deeje]

Enoch? Elijah? no immortal soul?

No, not in either case.
2 Kings 2:9-15 is the account of Elijah being taken in the windstorm, but it doesn't say that Elijah died...only that God 'took him'.
A windstorm could exist only in the atmospheric expanse, not in the spirit realm of God’s heavenly presence. Elijah was carried up out of Elisha’s sight by the windstorm or whirlwind.

But the Bible does not say that Elijah died on that occasion. As a matter of fact, Elijah was still alive and active as a prophet at least five years later, apparently over in the territory of Judah. The Bible says: “And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying.....” This letter foretold the sickness and death of Jehoram because of his wrong, idolatrous course. (2 Chronicles 21:12-15)
So Elijah was transferred from one location to another. (in rather spectacular fashion.)

A further evidence that Elijah did not die at the time of being taken into the “heavens” is that his servant and successor Elisha did not then hold the customary period of mourning for his master. (as in 2 Samuel 19:1; 1 Chronicles 7:22; 2 Chronicles 35:24)

In the case of Enoch, Genesis 5:24....
"And Enoch walked with God, and he was no longer, for God had taken him. כדוַיִּתְהַלֵּ֥ךְ חֲנ֖וֹךְ אֶת־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים וְאֵינֶ֕נּוּ כִּֽי־לָקַ֥ח אֹת֖וֹ אֱלֹהִֽים:"

Enoch as a prophet of God foretold the coming of myriads of angels to execute judgment against the ungodly. Persecution was likely brought against him because of his prophesying. However, God did not permit his opposers to kill Enoch. Instead God “took him,” evidently meaning that He cut short Enoch’s life at an age far below that of most of his contemporaries.
The ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife, (as in an immortal part of humans that departed from the body at death)....but they did have belief in a resurrection, which was demonstrated by Elijah when he resurrected the widow's son. (1 Kings ch 17)

This is how we understand these events in line with the scriptures that tell us that the dead are not conscious in any place. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

 

[Harel13]

@Deeje I've noticed that though you describe yourself as a JW, you use a version of the tetragram that's spelled completely differently than the J version, in particular it starting with a Y. Are you part of a JW splinter group called the YWs?

@Deeje, I'd appreciate an answer to this. Thanks.

 

[Deeje]

Just wondering if you would say the same about the following situation:
There's a church priest who has supoosedly been embezzling money from the church. One day, a congregation member bursts into the church, starts smashing windows, overturning benches, throwing crosses on the ground, etc, shouting "Justice!"

What would you say about that?

I'd say that in this day and age it would probably be nothing unusual. But if what he was protesting about was true, and the church leaders had done nothing about it...I'd say he might have had some justification for being angry. You see injustice sticks in your craw so if the church leaders had done the right thing, there would have been no grounds for his actions...would there?

Jesus did not start smashing windows...he made a whip of ropes and drove the animals and their profiteering sellers out the door. He overturned the tables of the money changers because they were conducting a commercial business where they had no business doing so.
If the religious leaders had done the right thing, Jesus' actions would not have been necessary. But they learned nothing from the experience because Jesus had to do it again. God's Temple is not a place for commercial activity, nor is it a place to rob your own brothers.

 

[Harel13]

I'd say that in this day and age it would probably be nothing unusual. But if what he was protesting about was true, and the church leaders had done nothing about it...I'd say he might have had some justification for being angry. You see injustice sticks in your craw so if the church leaders had done the right thing, there would have been no grounds for his actions...would there?

Jesus did not start smashing windows...he made a whip of ropes and drove the animals and their profiteering sellers out the door. He overturned the tables of the money changers because they were conducting a commercial business where they had no business doing so.
If the religious leaders had done the right thing, Jesus' actions would not have been necessary. But they learned nothing from the experience because Jesus had to do it again. God's Temple is not a place for commercial activity, nor is it a place to rob your own brothers.

Thing is, that's not how the Jewish court system works. Were there witnesses? Was the case brought up before the Sanhedrin? Who knows? Nobody. Is any of that mentioned in the NT?

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje, I'd appreciate an answer to this. Thanks.

Use of the name "Jehovah" is the English translation of the Tetragrammaton. Since it is a translation rather than a transliteration, we did not try to retain the sound of the name in Hebrew because we are not Hebrew speakers, and the Jews lost it anyway. We use the Anglicized form of the name because we are English speakers. Other languages have very different forms of the divine name. But since God speaks all languages, he surely can recognize his name in any language.....all he requested was that it be used reverently, as the Bible writers did.

You haven't told me why the Jews disobeyed God's directive in Exodus 3:15....?

 

[Harel13]

Use of the name "Jehovah" is the English translation of the Tetragrammaton. Since it is a translation rather than a transliteration, we did not try to retain the sound of the name in Hebrew because we are not Hebrew speakers, and the Jews lost it anyway. We use the Anglicized form of the name because we are English speakers. Other languages have very different forms of the divine name. But since God speaks all languages, he surely can recognize his name in any language.....all he requested was that it be used reverently, as the Bible writers did.

You haven't told me why the Jews disobeyed God's directive in Exodus 3:15....?

It sounds like you agree that you don't know the actual pronunciation, though previously I think you stated otherwise.
What disobedience? We don't doubt that the tetragram is God's name. We just don't use it. We use the title Hashem which means "the name", not as a replacement name but as an act of reverence. BTW during prayer we don't say Hashem. We use the "shem adnut", name of lordship, Ado-nai.

 

[Deeje]

Thing is, that's not how the Jewish court system works. Were there witnesses? Was the case brought up before the Sanhedrin? Who knows? Nobody. Is any of that mentioned in the NT?

Who said that there was any court situation? The gospel writers were eyewitnesses and they recorded what happened.

Jesus was the son of God, so he had authorization from the Head of the Sanhedrin.....do you really know that he wasn't who he said he was?

 

[Harel13]

Who said that there was any court situation? The gospel writers were eyewitnesses and they recorded what happened.

Exactly!!! No court situation. The man did it unlawfully. Yes, unlawfully. This is the same man who said a person has to keep all of the commandments. Yeah, right. *cough, hypocrite, cough*.

Jesus was the son of God, so he had authorization from the Head of the Sanhedrin

No he didn't. Where does it say in the Torah: keep my commandments, follow court proceedings, oh and the supposed son of god is exempt?

Sanhedrin.....do you really know that he wasn't who he said he was?

Do you know that he was? Miracles prove nothing.

 

[Deeje]

It sounds like you agree that you don't know the actual pronunciation, though previously I think you stated otherwise.

No, it was me who asked why the Jews lost it, remember?
Exodus 3:15...
"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"

This precious name that is unique in all the world and given as something to be "mentioned in every generation" and your forefathers failed to do that because....?

What disobedience? We don't doubt that the tetragram is God's name. We just don't use it. We use the title Hashem which means "the name", not as a replacement name but as an act of reverence.

Really? How is failing to use the name that God gave to Moses as something to be "mentioned in every generation", an act of reverence? How would you like someone to refer to you by saying "the name" instead of your name....I would view that as insulting!

BTW during prayer we don't say Hashem. We use the "shem adnut", name of lordship, Ado-nai.

Yep, another replacement for God's name and that makes it OK then.... Where did he tell the Jews to stop using it? Please explain....

 

[Harel13]

This precious name that is unique in all the world and given as something to be "mentioned in every generation" and your forefathers failed to do that because....?

Probably exactly the same way that Christians:
a. Don't know what Jesus's name is in Hebrew.
b. Can't agree whether or not Jesus ever actually called himself god.
c. Can't agree whether or not the trinity was an original teaching or not.
Etc.

Really? How is failing to use the name that God gave to Moses as something to be "mentioned in every generation", an act of reverence? How would you like someone to refer to you by saying "the name" instead of your name....I would view that as insulting!

Yeah? What if I called you Bob every time instead of whatever your real name is? That's exactly what you folks are doing.

Where did he tell the Jews to stop using it? Please explain....

He didn't. For a change, that's Jewish common sense. How about that? Instead of calling God the equivalent of calling you Bob (which I assume is not your name), they began to refer to him with a title. In the future, knowledge of the name will return and then it can be used again.

 

[Deeje]

Exactly!!! No court situation. The man did it unlawfully. Yes, unlawfully. This is the same man who said a person has to keep all of the commandments. Yeah, right. *cough, hypocrite, cough*.

Or it made him a champion of the Law....the religious leaders did nothing to stop the unlawful extortion that was going on in God's house of worship. So who were the hypocrites? Seriously.

No he didn't. Where does it say in the Torah: keep my commandments, follow court proceedings, oh and the supposed son of god is exempt?

Any prophet authorized by God could say and do whatever God told him to do. It was the religious leaders who were not keeping God's laws. Jesus showed them up for what they were and they hated him for it.

Do you know that he was? Miracles prove nothing.

The miracles certainly made the Pharisees nervous.....especially when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead....word got around and the Pharisees wanted to get rid of Jesus and Lazarus as well.

Tell me what will the Jews do if Jesus returns and it is revealed that everything he said and did was true? Will they be angry? Sad? Humiliated? What?

 

[Harel13]

Or it made him a champion of the Law....the religious leaders did nothing to stop the unlawful extortion that was going on in God's house of worship. So who were the hypocrites? Seriously.

Unlawful? Where was the proof? That's the whole point of court proceedings. Jesus had zero proof, so he went on a criminal rampage.

Any prophet authorized by God could say and do whatever God told him to do. It was the religious leaders who were not keeping God's laws. Jesus showed them up for what they were and they hated him for it.

Not a prophet. He never proved himself as a prophet.

The miracles certainly made the Pharisees nervous.....especially when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead....word got around and the Pharisees wanted to get rid of Jesus and Lazarus as well.

That, or because he was a criminal.

Tell me what will the Jews do if Jesus returns and it is revealed that everything he said and did was true? Will they be angry? Sad? Humiliated? What?

Won't happen, so irrelevant. In the fictional situation of it happening, he's going to have a lot to answer to.