1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Deeje, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    6,602
    Ratings:
    +7,137
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    They probably figured: nothing to challenge when this guy is only the adopted son of a descendant of David, and isn't a descendant himself.
     
  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    6,602
    Ratings:
    +7,137
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    I'm with you. The constant preaching and the I'm-holier-than-thou and you're all a bunch of idiots is tiring.
     
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not Source. They have provoked me to anger with their vanities. I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people. I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    It is meant to be this way as prophecy related, the problem is instead of questioning that it could be that Rabbinic Judaism is missing the plot; they assume the Christians are stupid, therefore the texts must be wrong, which is dumb on their part (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

    We can show where the Bible is too complex, and the foolish are generally the ones who go around calling other's idiots.
    Yeshua/Yehoshua was a prophesied reincarnation of King David (Psalms 89:19-21 = Isaiah 52:13-14 - Marred = Anointed); therefore genealogy isn't a requirement. ;)

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    6,602
    Ratings:
    +7,137
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    Tell that to @Deeje who brought up the genealogy factor.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,446
    Ratings:
    +1,969
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Proverbs 9:8-10 Don’t reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you. Reprove a wise person, and he will love you. (9) Instruct a wise person, and he will be still wiser. Teach a righteous person, and he will increase in learning. (10) The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

    In our opinion. :innocent:
     
  6. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    2,553
    Ratings:
    +289
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yada yada yada...

    How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (John 6:27, 29) “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40) “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47)
     
  7. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    2,553
    Ratings:
    +289
    Religion:
    Christian
    You just kick everything to the curb. It's pretty much a waste of time with you.
     
  8. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,045
    Ratings:
    +6,180
    Religion:
    Judaism
    @Deeje, you asked for "any" real evidence that God intended for his laws to be taken to such a degree?

    There are 2 scriptural sources for this that I found. However, there are a bit obscure.

    In the Exodus story, the Nation sings a song at the sea. In it, ( verse 15:2 ) the nation makes a commitment to exalt God. This verse can be applied towards Beautifying the Mitzvah, making it detailed and ornate. The verse says "I will [ future tense ] exalt/lift up God." One way to do this, here in the material world, is to make each Mitzvah beautiful with many details and dimensions. Like a diamond or a gem which has been cut to sparkle.

    In Leviticus, during the laws of the temple sacrifices, the offering is described and the fat and the other choice tidbits are left for God. ( verse 3:16 ). This can also be seen as a directive to always strive to offer God the best in all the actions that are devoted to Him.

    Does that help?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    75,324
    Ratings:
    +30,277
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    I asked you a simple questing and you didn't answer it. And how nice that you, a Christian who is instructed to not judge, is so judgmental.
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    75,324
    Ratings:
    +30,277
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Believing doesn't make it real. I would assume most adults know that due to things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.
     
  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,045
    Ratings:
    +6,180
    Religion:
    Judaism
    At times. Though depending on the person, I think it's cute. What get's me are Rabbis who argue and advocate that the Torah is fiction. ( it's somewhat common here in the US )
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,362
    Ratings:
    +675
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    Sorry, I understand it differently. However, I think it is not a problem, if we both agree that there is only one true God that is greater than David or Jesus.
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,362
    Ratings:
    +675
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    Thank you. Interesting, but I don’t think it really helps in this.
     
  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    14,423
    Ratings:
    +8,118
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    Thank you for your efforts, I appreciate it.

    Yes, and I agree whole-heartedly...every command of God has a purpose and if God commanded it, it must be perfect.....but why the need to enhance something that is already perfect? For some reason this brings to mind humans who are already physically good looking but want to make themselves better looking, so they consult a plastic surgeon and he makes enhancements to 'improve' the looks of this already beautiful person....sometimes they don't know when to stop, and they end up becoming hideous. This is how I see the Jewish approach to God's commands.....they go to ridiculous extremes when God never intended that they should have to do so. You can become so obsessed with how something "looks" and want to make it better, but end up making it just the opposite...if you catch my drift.

    As I said, God never asked Israel to do anything ridiculous. I know that to Jews, their practices do not seem to be ridiculous, but to those on the outside, (not indoctrinated in those practices from birth,) we just shake our heads and wonder what happened to common sense? God reads hearts, not just minds....blindly obeying additions to his original commands comes from an indoctrinated mind.....obeying God from the heart will serve God better, don't you think? He sees us wanting to observe his commands willingly because we love him, not fearfully because we might transgress a 'gnat' but end up 'gulping down a camel'.

    Giving God our best was always a matter of the heart....selfishness is ingrained in fallen humanity, so when Israel fell to offering God sick and lame animals, he was rightly incensed. (Malachi 1:6-9) But when God requests our best he is testing our heart. We know when we give him less than our best....so how far does God want us to go? How far is too far.....how much is not enough? God is all about balance....not too much, not too little, as he demonstrated with the manna. (Exodus 16:16-18) God gave us intelligence to figure things out for ourselves....when he commanded the Israelites to do something, he intended them to do exactly what he had commanded...no more, no less.

    I guess it always helps to understand Jewish thinking.....this is rather new to me because I have no Jewish people where I live, so speaking with Jews here is always an education to me. I really want to understand how they arrive at their definitions of things. More so, it is about "who" they rely on for their definitions.....seeing as how Jews do not seem to have a set of beliefs (like the 10 Commandments written on stone) can you just choose which Rabbi's definition suits what you want to believe? I find that very odd when they are so pedantic about do many minor things...:shrug:
     
  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,045
    Ratings:
    +6,180
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You're always welcome.
    I do catch your drift. Completely. I think there's a lot of merit to living simply, and simply following the commandments. But I also recognize the merit of having the law as it has been derived by Rabbis and Scholars in the Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox communities.
    The Mannah, It's a really good point. :) You asked a good question too... "How far is too far?" I should be able to find something that answers that question. Again, I should be able to find a possible answer, not **the** answer.

    However, ahem, if you don't mind, { he say's straightening his imaginary tie }, :D May I respectfully request scripture ( preferably something from the Tanach ) that supports: "when God requests our best he is testing our heart."
    Well... I think it makes sense for you and others to question and criticize the Rabbi's who deem Jesus not to be the Messiah. But when it comes to dietary laws, observance of Shabbos, and other non-Messianic issues ( for lack of better term ); what is the harm? Put more clearly:

    Is there any scriptural evidence that supports not observing Shabbos in the manner that resonates with Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox communities? How do you know that God is not overjoyed by this?
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. Maximus

    Maximus the Confessor

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2020
    Messages:
    128
    Ratings:
    +73
    Religion:
    Christianity

    @Deeje "Since the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife"

    I think that was true of some Jews (e.g., Sadducees) but not others (Pharisees). There were many different sects.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    14,423
    Ratings:
    +8,118
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    I am speaking about the ancients, not the ones who were clearly off the rails in Jesus’ day. He had nothing good to say about them.
    The Jews adopted some of the strong Greek influence, (especially Plato in his belief about the immortality of the soul...something not taught in Hebrew Scripture.
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,045
    Ratings:
    +6,180
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Enoch? Elijah? no immortal soul? :confused:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    14,423
    Ratings:
    +8,118
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    Thank you, it’s always a pleasure to talk with you. :)

    I understand...we all have choices to make for our own reasons.

    LOL how very Jewish of you... :D

    It’s the reason for requesting our best.....he can see what our best is and whether or not we are giving it. I didn’t think that needed explaining. When the lame and sick animals were offered, what did that tell God about those presenting them? They were making their sacrifices according to the Law, but God knew as well as they did that their sacrifices were based on selfishness....they kept the best for themselves. Wholehearted devotion to God doesn’t need a law....it comes from knowing him and loving him. It’s not about performance for the sake of it....it’s about a desire to please God in ways that count. (the camels)

    It’s not about whether the laws were harmful or not, but whether this adherence to strict rituals, not included in the law itself, but by the Rabbis who interpreted them, to be a complete waste of time and energy, better spent in common sense practice from the heart rather than nit picking the law and losing the spirit to of it, which is what Jesus pointed out. And finding ways to circumvent the nit picking.....like elevators where you do not need to push the button....or automatic lighting so you don’t need to flick a switch....you can’t move something with your hand but you can nudge it with you elbow or use your teeth.....that kind of thing. :confused: You really think that Gd is that pedantic? That is not the God Jesus showed us.
     
  20. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    2,553
    Ratings:
    +289
    Religion:
    Christian
    Look who's judging - you.

    Like I told you before, you kick all evidences about Jesus and the NT to the curb. That's what you do and are.
     
Loading...