What did Jesus Say? For Discussion not Debate.

[BilliardsBall]

I'm glad you asked. Many Christians don't seem to know what Jesus said was important.

Mark 12:33 New International Version (NIV)
33 To love him (God) with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Luke 10:27 He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

Great point, we are to balance love and truth. Truth without love soon becomes legalism, love without truth soon becomes New Age "Christianity".

 

[pearl]

It helps me understand what you think debate means, yes. Anyway, no big deal.

I think the op is asking for dialogue as opposed to debate.

 

[pearl]

Determining what Jesus 'actually' said separate from the post resurrection faith of the Gospel authors is what keeps the exegetes busy.

 

[Neutral Name]

In a previous, recent thread it was claimed that Jesus' message was to "be nice" and the rest was less significant.

What do you think? What are the important lessons taught by Jesus? Please share your opinion backed up with verses from scripture.

I respectfully request:

• No preaching
• No debating
• Limit responses to Jesus' words as presented in scripture

Thank you,

Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

1 John
4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Romans
13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And I've got many more like this.

 

[YoursTrue]

What is most significant?
What is most memorable?
Are there common themes to the verses in red?

Note: I literally have no idea... Excluding sermon on the mount; I am completely ignorant of this subject matter.

Hi. I haven't read all in this thread , but may I ask if you read the gospel accounts, or just one of them so you can read more of what Jesus said? By the way , hope you are doing well at this point in time .

 

[PruePhillip]

Determining what Jesus 'actually' said separate from the post resurrection faith of the Gospel authors is what keeps the exegetes busy.

You mean, he could have actually said something more smarter and more compassionate
than what the Gospels already record?
When the Pharisees said Jesus was consorting with sinners He said He came to help the
sick, and they should go learn what that meant. How could you present anything more
wise?
And in the trap set for Jesus He said "Render under Caesar what is Caesar's, and what
is God's to God."
And when the Jews reminded Jesus of what some of his sinners did he said "And you saw
them repent but you didn't repent yourself."

I don't see all these amazing sayings in so-called prophets of this world. Jesus came across
as so incredibly prescient and other-worldly.

 

[dybmh]

Hi. I haven't read all in this thread , but may I ask if you read the gospel accounts, or just one of them so you can read more of what Jesus said? By the way , hope you are doing well at this point in time .

Hi YoursTrue,

Thank you, yes, I'm doing well. To answer your question, no, I haven't read them. I've read some sections of it while researching topics here on RF. But I have not read the gospels.

 

[pearl]

You mean, he could have actually said something more smarter and more compassionate
than what the Gospels already record?

The problem is in the misunderstanding that 'anything was recorded' during Jesus' lifetime. Following the D/R is the time of Apostolic preaching, the oral tradition. The Gospels are penned after the time of the Apostles.

 

[PruePhillip]

The problem is in the misunderstanding that 'anything was recorded' during Jesus' lifetime. Following the D/R is the time of Apostolic preaching, the oral tradition. The Gospels are penned after the time of the Apostles.

Where's your evidence?
I suspect John's gospel was penned as it happened.
Luke, who never met Jesus, penned his Acts after completing the
Gospel According to Luke. He never finished Acts. Luke was with
Paul on that fateful last journey to Rome ca AD 66.
And of course, Luke was quoting from Mathew and Mark too.
I am fine that James the brother of Jesus wrote James. And there's
no reason to believe Peter didn't write Peter.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In a previous, recent thread it was claimed that Jesus' message was to "be nice" and the rest was less significant.

What do you think? What are the important lessons taught by Jesus? Please share your opinion backed up with verses from scripture.

I respectfully request:

• No preaching
• No debating
• Limit responses to Jesus' words as presented in scripture

Thank you,

Sacrifice in itself. I think giving up what's temporary for spiritual is a good message. Resurrection gives people hope.

 

[pearl]

evidence?
I suspect John's gospel was penned as it happened.
Luke, who never met Jesus, penned his Acts after completing the
Gospel According to Luke. He never finished Acts. Luke was with
Paul on that fateful last journey to Rome ca AD 66.
And of course, Luke was quoting from Mathew and Mark too.
I am fine that James the brother of Jesus wrote James. And there's
no reason to believe Peter didn't write Pete

Gospel according to Mark- in the 60's or just after70
Gospel according to Mt and Luke - 10-20 years after
Mark.
Gospel of John- 90-100, and a much different form.
The earliest writings, those of Paul-from the 50's.

Both Matthew and Luke quoted from Mark and also from a lost collection of Jesus sayings, "Q".

 

[exchemist]

Where's your evidence?
I suspect John's gospel was penned as it happened.
Luke, who never met Jesus, penned his Acts after completing the
Gospel According to Luke. He never finished Acts. Luke was with
Paul on that fateful last journey to Rome ca AD 66.
And of course, Luke was quoting from Mathew and Mark too.
I am fine that James the brother of Jesus wrote James. And there's
no reason to believe Peter didn't write Peter.

If you look this up on the internet you will find that what @pcarl is saying is what most biblical scholars think. John's gospel is thought to be the latest and certainly that is how it seems to me, as it seems to have a more worked out theology in it. It certainly has quite a different feel from the synoptic gospels.

 

[PruePhillip]

If you look this up on the internet you will find that what @pcarl is saying is what most biblical scholars think. John's gospel is thought to be the latest and certainly that is how it seems to me, as it seems to have a more worked out theology in it. It certainly has quite a different feel from the synoptic gospels.

What's this "worked out theology" ? Sounds like something some author made up
and passed down to us as received wisdom.
John's account has about seven simple stories of Jesus in it. Some of which are
corroborated by the other six authors. John said he was there when it happened,
and this also is corroborated by other authors.

 

[PruePhillip]

Gospel according to Mark- in the 60's or just after70
Gospel according to Mt and Luke - 10-20 years after
Mark.
Gospel of John- 90-100, and a much different form.
The earliest writings, those of Paul-from the 50's.

Both Matthew and Luke quoted from Mark and also from a lost collection of Jesus sayings, "Q".

You are going along with the received, unwarranted, "wisdom."
Luke died in Rome during Nero's reign. He was an eyewitness
to much of what happened in Acts. And he quotes from Mark
and Matthew - meaning these were written prior to Acts and
his own Gospel.
I have no idea where some academic even dreamt up these
dates for a late creation - other than to explain it all away.

Evidence. I wonder if any account of Jesus' warning about
Jerusalem being besieged is taken as "evidence" of a later
dating. Jesus' warning saved the lives of many people and
THAT should be evidence of an early dating.

 

[PruePhillip]

The problem is in the misunderstanding that 'anything was recorded' during Jesus' lifetime. Following the D/R is the time of Apostolic preaching, the oral tradition. The Gospels are penned after the time of the Apostles.

Why couldn't it be recorded? I reckon John was penning his words as they were spoken.
Someone probably did this with the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5,6,7. And why
not?
The other explanation is the fact that people memorized things. In Jesus day people
could recite the entire Iliad. And we have speeches which appear to have been
memorized.
But "after the disciples" --- no. Doesn't make sense. You witness something historical
and your mission, as Jesus commanded, was to take this into all the world, then you
w.r.i.t.e..i.t...d.o.w.n. And soon - you don't know if you are going to be alive tomorrow
given the persecution you daily face (only John lived to old age.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Hi YoursTrue,

Thank you, yes, I'm doing well. To answer your question, no, I haven't read them. I've read some sections of it while researching topics here on RF. But I have not read the gospels.

It's not necessary for starters to read all four gospels. I personally can usually only read a couple of chapters of any book when I'm reading. I guess I have a short attention span? Because I have a million books on various subjects (ok, I'm exaggerating) and only read a few paragraphs usually at a time. But I do try to read a couple of chapters from the Bible on a regular basis.

 

[dybmh]

It's not necessary for starters to read all four gospels. I personally can usually only read a couple of chapters of any book when I'm reading. I guess I have a short attention span? Because I have a million books on various subjects (ok, I'm exaggerating) and only read a few paragraphs usually at a time. But I do try to read a couple of chapters from the Bible on a regular basis.

I'm on 2nd Sam right now

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm on 2nd Sam right now

That's nice. I was just discussing a couple of things from Daniel, and realized how much of it took place in the Persian area. But Samuel was different. However, there's always something to learn. Now I'll try to look at Samuel a bit.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm on 2nd Sam right now

OK, I just started reading 2 Samuel chapters 1 and 2. Although I have read it before, there's always something new to pay attention to. So as I'm reading in chapter 2 about Abner and David and the house of Judah, I'm thinking it's so detailed with the events and history. It couldn't possibly have been made up.

 

[exchemist]

What's this "worked out theology" ? Sounds like something some author made up
and passed down to us as received wisdom.
John's account has about seven simple stories of Jesus in it. Some of which are
corroborated by the other six authors. John said he was there when it happened,
and this also is corroborated by other authors.

It's my term, no one else's.

For example, the mystical opening: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him and without him was not made anything that was made. In him was life and life was the light of men." etc.

This is pure theology. You do not find the synoptic gospels talking in this way at all.