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Featured What did Jesus Say? For Discussion not Debate.

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by dybmh, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Jesus, like the rest of the bible, was all about Special Favorites-- and everyone else? Was only worthy of being killed or slaughtered, or having their ancestral lands stolen from, and so on..
     
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  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Respectfully... ( you know I respect you, Bob ) is this something that is said or implied by verses in the Bible?
     
  3. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:13; “And no man has ascended into heaven except ‘The Son of MAN’ who came down.” And filled the man Jesus with his spirit=words, (For the flesh profits nothing, it is the spirit that give life, and my 'WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE,', said the Lord God OUR SAVIOUR through his servant Jesus.

    Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

    Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

    Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

    Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

    John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    Acts 3:19; “Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.” The man Jesus, was chosen and made both Lord and saviour by “Who I Am”.

    Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

    Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

    Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, "Here is my servant, whom I strengthen---the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit (Which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.) and he will bring justice to every nation.

    1st Timothy 1:1; “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR” and Christ Jesus “OUR HOPE.”

    John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

    Jesus said to Mary Magdalen in John 20: 17; “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to ‘THE’ Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

    Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which was the earthy temple of the Lord, that had been filled with the spirit of the Lord, which had descended upon him in the form of a dove?

    “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

    They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

    Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

    Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

    1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

    2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

    2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

    Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

    THE WORDS THAT Jesus spoke were the words of the Lord, which he was commanded to speak in HIS NAME.
     
  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Re-read John 6:44. According to that? I'm supposed to be an atheist...
     
  5. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    I think the most important bits are where he called the religious leaders "hypocrites", "blind fools" and "serpents, brood of vipers" - God knows how much this teaching (Matthew 23:1-36; Luke 11:37-54) is overlooked. No Jesus wasn't so much about being nice - and he wouldn't be nice about the "Church" today for the most part as far as I can tell.
     
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  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    What I was looking for was verses to support "everyone else was worthy of being killed slaughtered or having their land stolen"

    That sounds like OT... not too Jesus-y :)
     
  7. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    But that expresses the views only of Matthew's Jesus. The Jesuses of Paul, Mark and John don't include them, and the Jesus of Luke doesn't mention the sermon, though he puts a number of its elements in various other addresses.
     
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    What would you say, if all four gospels spoke of the wise men who came looking for Jesus almost two years after they had witnessed the heavenly sign that had heralded his birth, as revealed by Matthew?

    Or what if all four gospels told the story of the young boy Jesus sitting in the temple confounding the Jews with his knowledge of the scriptures, as revealed by Luke?.

    Or what if all four Gospels revealed that Jesus called his friend Lazarus to come out of his tomb, as revealed by John, or if every Gospel revealed that there was two miraculous feedings of the multitudes, one 5,000 people, the other 4,000?
     
  9. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    It wouldn't be as simple as that. There would still be the deep credibility problem arising from the sheer extent to which Mark can be mapped onto the Tanakh, and depending on how the astrology was phrased, the more blatantly obvious problem with magic in stories ─ indeed, not so much problem as falsifier. My own view remains that it's possible there was an historical Jesus (about whom we know virtually nothing), but that an historical Jesus is not necessary to account for Paul and the gospels, so I think it's 50-50. However, that's not the subject of this thread.
     
  10. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Your judgment of me is wrong. I encourage Christians to search the scriptures for themselves. You could do the same.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Thank you--so how do YOU read the issue in your OP? What's your take?
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    If possible, I was hoping that this thread would not turn into a debate. That's why I chose this specific sub-forum and respectfully requested it in the OP.

    On way to prevent this from becoming a debate is to focus on scriptural verses.

    Besides that, here are examples of what I think constitutes debating. You will notice, they are all objections.
    • "That is not accurate."
    • "That is taken out of context."
    • "You are wrong."
    • "You are missing the point."
    • "The source is flawed."
    • "Irrelevant."
    It's OK to disagree with someone and to state a disagreement. It's certainly OK to ask follow-up questions in order to better understand another individual's perspective. But asking questions like a prosecutor in a court-room, IMHO, is debating.

    Does that help?
     
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  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    To be completely honest, at the time,

    *blush*

    I agreed with the claim, Jesus was telling people to be nice and the rest is less significant. But I've learned a lot, so far, in this thread....

    Yes, i could have read it for myself. But this is interesting for me on 2 levels.

    1) It gives me insight into the religion.
    2) It gives me insight into each person who responds.

    Both are fascinating to me. I am fascinated by religion. And I'm a people-person. I like people. I like learning about what each individual likes, what they don't like. What they like to read; what they like to eat. etc.

    Also, it's true what @usfan has been observing, many threads get created that point out the flaws in Christianity and Christians. I thought it would be nice to start a thread that gave an opportunity to discuss Jesus academically and philosophically.
     
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  14. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Pointing out significant details of the teachings of Jesus seems to be the point of this thread. Good idea. Lies and distortions abound, inplying 'Christians!' ..:eek:.. are 'commanded!' to kill everyone, hate everyone, oppress everyone, and bully everyone into believing as they do. That is false. That's the progressive agenda, projected onto their ideological enemies.

    Some wonder what 'new' things Jesus taught, regarding life and morality. Here's a specific one:

    John13:33“My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come.
    34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”


    Now some may say, 'this isn't new! The summation of the Law was':

    Mark12:29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ f 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

    But notice the distinction. It is not just 'as yourself', but 'as I have loved you'. It is a sacrificial love, that goes beyond self interest.
     
  15. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    I like it that you’re reading the Bible all the way through. That will give you a better context for reading the gospel stories. Later, when you’re reading those, you can consider the question, in the context of all that has come before, what does it look like to you, that the Jesus in those stories is saying, about His God, about Himself, and about the best possibilities in life?
     
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  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I respectfully request that you allow people to post their opinions in this thread even if they are, by your standards, ignorant and baseless.

    Most of the readers will be able to recognize 'ignorant and baseless' when it happens. As long as the thread stays on topic, I think the 'good and useful' will overwhelm the 'hateful and the spam'.

    (@Deeje... please let people say what they want to say unopposed)
     
  17. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Jesus stressed that the OT Laws were to be kept, and kept well.

    It was Paul who created anti-jewish heresy.
     
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  18. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    ?
    I do not understand your reproof. I have called nobody 'ignorant and baseless!', and only ..sometimes.. oppose the false narratives as they occur (which is often)

    Im not stopping or bullying anyone into keeping their opinions to themselves. I believe in freedom of conscience , speech, and assembly. :shrug:
     
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  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Irrelevant. You can easily do that without making ex gratia remarks telling the poster they ought to look it up for themselves instead of asking the opinion of others. And you miss the point of the value in comparing people's opinions.

    By the way you have no business telling me I ought to do the same, when you have zero idea of whether I have done so or not.
     
    #79 exchemist, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  20. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    It must be amazing to be right 100% of the time.
     
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