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Featured What Did Jesus Mean?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Deeje, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Jun 20, 2009
    Christian JW
    I find your take on scripture jumps all over the place. Daniel did not worship the beast because he worshipped only his God. Are you thinking of his three companions perhaps? They refused to worship the image.

    Daniel's prophesies would not be understood until "the time of the end". (Daniel 12:4) The beast did not exist until then. It is those who are alive at the time of the end who will choose to worship the beast and its image....only God's people will refuse.

    Those who will rule with Jesus are only those taken into the "new covenant".....all of whom died after he opened the way into heaven. Anyone who died before that time will be blessed with a physical resurrection.....like John the Baptist.

    There must of necessity be a spiritual resurrection because Jesus said he was going his way to heaven to prepare a place for the chosen ones. His disciples were told to remain in Jerusalem for the "helper, the holy spirit" to give them all that they needed.....Unless you believe that Jesus went to heaven in the flesh, (which is physically impossible) then those chosen to rule with him, must of necessity experience a spiritual resurrection as well. These ones were to live in the flesh as Jesus did and when they died they would be resurrected as he was resurrected...."in the spirit". Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven.

    Spiritual Israel will be gathered from all the nations at that time. It is not fleshly Israel, whom God has already abandoned. (Matthew 23:37-39)

    Some are already there....the rest are still earth bound until Jesus comes and they are transformed in order to join him in spirit form. How else are they to get to heaven? Just as Jesus had to be resurrected "in the spirit"....so do his "joint-heirs".Doesn't that stand to reason?

    We have a completely different take on those things.....

    The end times will not be a picnic......but through it will come a "great multitude" seen by John in Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14. God will save them because he has guaranteed that he will preserve their lives.
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2013
    . Daniel himself, who fasted for 3 weeks for understanding, was given understanding concerning the mysteries of some of his prophecies. He told Nebuchadnezzar that Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold, and pointed out the other kingdoms to come. The kingdom of Persia, who was the "breast of silver" was specified in Daniel 10:13. The kingdom of Greece (Daniel 11:2), the kingdom of silver, is pointed out also in Daniel 10:20. These are all past kingdoms which have been crushed by the 4th kingdom of iron (Rome). All of these are in the past, and only Rome exist in the form of Tzars, Kaisers, and dictators of the present era. They would be the 8th head of the beast and his 10 horns who persecute the "harlot" (Judah). The 7th head of the beast, the Roman emperor Constantine, who followed the 6th head of the beast, who ruled at the time of the writing of Revelation (Revelation 17:10), is dead. Daniel 12:9 was referring to "what will be the outcome of these events?" For that, the "wicked", those that sin, who transgress the Law (1 John 3:4), will have no "understanding" (Daniel 12:10). Per Revelation 17:10-11, all the heads of the beast are dead except the 8th head, who was one of the 7. The "beast" will bring about Har-Magedon by way of his demon spirit (Revelation 16:13-16), for he was, and is not (Revelation 17:11), meaning he died, and his body burned (Daniel 7:11), but his demon spirit lives on. And no, Daniel did not worship the beast, nor did he stop praying to God, as evidenced by his being eventually tossed into the lions den.
    Who is worshipping the beast, are those who prayers are not heard by God, and who worship the dragon by way of heeding the decrees of the beast, which would be part and parcel of the dogmas of the church of Rome and her daughters.

    The angel of the LORD ate dinner with Abraham, and the heavenly watchers took women for wives, so I am thinking that while God may be Spirit, he has sons (Job 1:6), such as angels, who take on physical characteristics, and apparently some reside in heaven. Specifically, "Joshua"/Yeshua, stood "before the angel of the LORD" (Zechariah 3:1).

    There is no "spiritual Israel" scattered among the nations (Ezekiel 36:22-24). It is the house of Israel which is scattered among the nations, which is Ephraim. They will be gathered and given a new heart and a new spirit, and live on the land I gave to Jacob/forefathers. (Ez 36:24-28).& (Ez 37:25).

    Israel will be as the "sands of the sea", yet only 1/3 of the "little ones" will come through the fire alive (Zechariah 13:8-9) & (Isaiah 10:22) Who has "God" given a "guarantee", that their lives would be preserved? I think the guarantee was that one must endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 24;13). I wouldn't actually call that a guarantee.

    Little of what you say "stands to reason". The kingdom of God with David as king will be on earth (Ezekiel 37:24-25). The "kingdom of heaven at hand" is the power and spirit of God on earth among his children now. When those children die, they go to the grave and wait for the first resurrection, at the beginning of the millennium.
    #262 2ndpillar, Nov 2, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018