What Did Jesus Actually Do?

[Thief]

What original "teaching" did he come up with?
"golden rule" is as old as dirt.

WINNER

yeah.....Jesus quoted common law
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

written a thousand years before the Carpenter walked

and because He quoted such heathen law.....the Pharisees sought to have Him dead
from that hour He spoke of it
looking THEM in the eye as He did so

 

[Nakosis]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

Jesus was a conduit between the poor, infirmed and God.

From what I've gathered, the poor and sick were see as sinful. Their status was the result of being sinners. The priesthood wrote them off as being unsalvageable.

Jesus offered the idea that he could redeem their sins and they could be worthy of God. Paul exported this idea to the gentiles. It's popularity amongst the impoverist, infirm masses broke through class barriers. It gave them hope beyond their station in life. I can imagine there was very little compassion shown for these people. Jesus offered them a compassionate God and a promise of being loved, accepted and rewarded.

 

[Rival]

Jesus was a conduit between the poor, infirmed and God.

From what I've gathered, the poor and sick were see as sinful. Their status was the result of being sinners. The priesthood wrote them off as being unsalvageable.

Jesus offered the idea that he could redeem their sins and they could be worthy of God. Paul exported this idea to the gentiles. It's popularity amongst the impoverist, infirm masses broke through class barriers. If gave them hope beyond their station in life. I can imagine there was very little compassion shown for these people. Jesus offered them a compassionate God and a promise of being loved, accepted and rewarded.

None of this is true. This is Christian slander against Judaism.

 

[oldbadger]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

I think that the Baptist achieved more than Jesus, even though he got arrested and his movement against the priesthood and Temple was broken up.

Jesus tried to carry on the 'mercy and not sacrifice' mission against the Temple and corrupt priesthood for 11-12 months but he failed in Galilee, and then failed at Jerusalem.

And Yes, Paul took it and built it in to Christianity.

 

[Thief]

None of this is true. This is Christian slander against Judaism.

check this out

a Roman centurion ( leader of a hundred soldiers)
came asking the healing of a servant
( there was a bond of life and living)

Jesus stood to His feet and would follow the soldier to his home

as they moved through the crowd....the soldier in the lead
he could see in the faces of the crowd.....the hatred

and the centurion realized his error.....he had killed the Carpenter

if Jesus would follow all the way to threshold and home of a Roman....
the crowd would be outside waiting for Him

so
the Roman turned about and with humility did say....
I am not worthy that you enter into my home
but as a leader of men I understand authority
Say the word....and my servant is healed

and Jesus said in return......rebuking the hatred of the crowd
NOT IN ALL of this land have I seen greater faith than this....!!!!
and the servant was healed in that same hour




but can you see the faces of the crowd?
as the Carpenter showed FAVOR to a Roman

 

[loverofhumanity]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

He renewed religion and gave it a new impetus, quickening spirit and direction which resulted in charities to help the poor, schools, orphanages, hospitals, humanitarian organisations, universities, inspired art and music for generations to come.

His teachings signalled a far more superior moral code than had been advanced up till then and building upon the teachings established by Moses added humanitarian values which today dominate much of western society.

Forgiveness, turn the other cheek, love thine enemy, love one another,

Of Jesus Baha’u’llah said...

By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

He established a new covenant. He laid down what Thomas Jefferson called, "the most pure, benevolent, and sublime (precepts) which have ever been preached to man." He healed the sick, raised the dead, and defeated Satan at Calvary so that all who believed in Jesus could be saved unto eternal life. And he changed the world for the better.

Most of that is religious belief for which there is insufficient support. I have no reason to believe it, and so don't consider them accomplishments.

Jefferson's opinion is not mine. The precepts of Jesus are easily improved upon. Jefferson did so himself in the Declaration of Independence, which took a moral position contradictory to scripture regarding the right to unseat unjust tyrants even if they were allegedly divinely appointed, and therefore commanded by God to submit to.

Jesus was a relatively ordinary-for-his-time, peripatetic, religious zealot that was in the right place at the right time for people like Paul and the latter Roman emperors to launch a new religion about him.

The world is now being made better by the ongoing decline of organized, politicized Christianity, especially in the States.

Jesus didn't have to write books about himself. He knew the Christ mockers wouldn't believe him anyway.

Nor should people believe that story. Yet, allegedly Jesus performed miracles as testimony to his divine nature so that he would be believed, but according to you, wouldn't be believed if he had written about it, or, presumably, by second hand accounts.

What original "teaching" did he come up with? "golden rule" is as old as dirt.

Agreed.

I've asked a similar question many times and received no satisfactory answer: What original and valuable contribution did Jesus make to moral theory?

I can find a few valuable ideas, but as you note, they predate Jesus.

And I have found what I think are ideas original to Jesus, but not valuable ones, such as "Blessed are the meek." That's wrong. The meek are accursed by a failure of the spirit to assert themselves when they ought to be. Caspar Milquetoast was meek. Stan Laurel's character was meek. Milton from the movie Office Space was meek. None were blessed or to be admired.​

 

[Terry Sampson]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve?

 

[Rival]

View attachment 28944

View attachment 28945

Meanwhile, some people are actually having a debate.

 

[PureX]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

What Jesus 'actually did' was deliver the revelation and the promise to all humanity that the spirit of God exists within all of us, and that if we will allow that divine spirit within us to guide us, and to rule us, we will be healed and saved from ourselves, and we will be able to help to heal and save others. It's nothing short of offering us the salvation of humanity, through the simple act of faith. He did this through the words he spoke, and the way he treated others, even as he was being rejected and eventually murdered for it. He remained true to his message and promise. And his promise is still good, today. It proves itself true for anyone who chooses to live by that divine spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness, generosity, and compassion within them.

 

[Rival]

What Jesus 'actually did' was deliver the revelation and the promise to all humanity that the spirit of God exists within all of us, and that if we will allow that divine spirit within us to guide us, and to rule us, we will be healed and saved from ourselves, and we will be able to help to heal and save others. It's nothing short of offering us the salvation of humanity, through the simple act of faith. He did this through the words he spoke, and the way he treated others, even as he was being rejected and eventually murdered for it. He remained true to his message and promise. And his promise is still good, today. It proves itself true for anyone who chooses to live by that divine spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness, generosity, and compassion within them.

Again, this is a belief.

 

[Spartan]

Most of that is religious belief for which there is insufficient support. I have no reason to believe it, and so don't consider them accomplishments.

The precepts of Jesus are easily improved upon. Jefferson did so himself in the Declaration of Independence, which took a moral position contradictory to scripture regarding the right to unseat unjust tyrants even if they were allegedly divinely appointed, and therefore commanded by God to submit to.

Jesus was a relatively ordinary-for-his-time, peripatetic, religious zealot that was in the right place at the right time for people like Paul and the latter Roman emperors to launch a new religion about him.

The world is now being made better by the ongoing decline of organized, politicized Christianity, especially in the States.​

Sorry, I don't see any validity to those views.

Nor should people believe that story. Yet, allegedly Jesus performed miracles as testimony to his divine nature so that he would be believed, but according to you, wouldn't be believed if he had written about it, or, presumably, by second hand accounts.

People should believe the Gospels. Those who don't, in my memory, haven't done their proper due-diligence and/or have an unfounded anti-supernatural bias.
​

 

[Terry Sampson]

Meanwhile, some people are actually having a debate.

A debate:

• during which no opinions, except of each other, will be changed;
• at the end of which, no opinions, except of each other, will be changed;
• with some entertainment value to some but not all;
• and no popcorn or booze.

Yup, you've started a debate. Good on ya' ....Have fun.

 

[Rival]

Those who don't, in my memory, haven't done their proper due-diligence and/or have an unfounded anti-supernatural bias.

This is ridiculous. There are millions upon millions who believe in G-d, the supernatural, spirits and so forth without being Christian.

 

[Spartan]

This is ridiculous. There are millions upon millions who believe in G-d, the supernatural, spirits and so forth without being Christian.

I'm talking about Christ deniers who haven't done the proper historical research on his validity.

 

[PureX]

Again, this is a belief.

That Jesus 'actually' existed is a 'belief'. The message and promise that IS BEING spread in his name is not 'just a belief'. It's an actual ideal, that actual people adhere to, and actually find to be true in their lives.

Whatever Jesus (the man) was, Jesus (the myth) is now the representation of that ideal, and has been for several thousand years. And that's one amazing legacy, wouldn't you say?

 

[Nakosis]

None of this is true. This is Christian slander against Judaism.

I suspect part of that view is based on this passage.

Matt 9
10 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.””

 

[Rival]

That Jesus 'actually' existed is a 'belief'. The message and promise that IS BEING spread in his name is not 'just a belief'. It's an actual ideal, that actual people adhere to, and actually find to be true in their lives.

Whatever Jesus (the man) was, Jesus (the myth) is now the representation of that ideal, and has been for several thousand years. And that's one amazing legacy, wouldn't you say?

First, this could be said about pretty much anyone in his shoes so it's almost irrelevant and second, it could be taken to mean he did nothing but followers did everything. I am asking, from the perspective of a historical Jesus, what did he himself do that is worth remembering?

 

[Marcion]

Yeshua gave spiritual and missionary instructions to his disciples as found in the collected Q-lite sayings and demonstrated some of his occult powers to them. He did not start the Christian religion, that was a secondary spin-off.

 

[Rival]

I suspect part of that view is based on this passage.

Matt 9
10 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.””

It certainly didn't help. Many myths about Jews and especially Pharisees seem to have arisen from these writings.