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Featured What Did Jesus Actually Do?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, May 10, 2019.

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  1. Saint Frankenstein

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    Yes, it's normal for the rate of earthquakes to fluctuate: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has naturally occurring earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up for a big one?

    Climate change has nothing to do with plate techtonics, as far as I know
     
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  2. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    You don't know what God can and can't do. You don't have that supernatural insight (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    I know from the examples already in the Bible what God can do.
     
  3. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Being able to imagine something, and it being possible, doesn't make it probable though.

    There are 2 major themes in the way people look at this:

    1. Seeing as the rise of modern Western values of scientific rationalism and humanism are inevitable, what are the things that prevented them developing sooner?

    2. Given that there is no purpose or direction to human history, what were the unique and contingent conditions that enabled the development and persistence of these values in Western culture?

    The first option is a faith based position (ironically borrowing the teleological view of history from Christianity), yet seems to be very common among Rationalists.

    It is very hard to make a case for the 2nd without also noting the influence of Christianity on the development of science, human rights, and even secularism. While Christian apologists often overstate the case, and minimise additional influences, Humanists tend to adopt the 'anything but Christianity' approach, often based on outdated ideas long rejected by secular historical scholarship. The idea that the single biggest influence on European society for 2000 years did not play a major role in creating the values of the modern West also seems quite fantastical, especially as we can see them developing in Christian contexts long before the Enlightenment where some people seem to think they magically appeared out of a vacuum (a virgin birth :D).

    (btw, the idea of the Dark Ages has long been rejected by scholars, Bruno was a mystic, not a rational scientist, and Galileo's ideas were also rejected by most scientists at that time, had there been a scientific consensus, the church would have revised their position)
     
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  4. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    That is a little bit short selling....
    And on the 3rd day, God raised him from the dead and now seated at the right hand of God in heaven.


    Ephesians 1:18-21 New International Version (NIV)
    I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.

    The Lord Jesus Christ achieved many things - everything we see, everything in this universe was created because of him and him alone. There is always a purpose why God created this and that but only a few people know that God created everything not for somebody else but for the Lord Jesus Christ.

    And this fact is mentioned in:

    Hebrews 1:2 New International Version (NIV)

    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

    Who is the Son of God? That is the Lord Jesus Christ.
    According to the bible - Jesus Christ is the appointed heir of all things
    And Jesus Christ is the reason he made the universe

    upload_2019-5-12_18-10-26.jpeg

    God made that for Jesus Christ - isn't that something or what?

    John 1:3 New International Version (NIV)

    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    In other words - God created everything through the Lord Jesus Christ in mind.
    The smallest thing to the largest thing - where all created through Jesus Christ.
    Every microscopic thing exists because of Jesus
    The largest star or galaxy exist because of Jesus
    Isn't that cool or what?

    Romans 11:36 New International Version (NIV)
    For from him and through him and for him are all things.
    To him be the glory forever! Amen.

    [​IMG]

    Colossians 1:16 New International Version (NIV)
    For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

    Everything was created for the Lord Jesus Christ
    Because God created everything through His Son, Jesus Christ
    and no one else but for him.

    Be it things in heaven
    [​IMG]
    Be it things on earth
    [​IMG]
    Even the governments of the world
    are all created for the Lord Jesus Christ.

    That is the Lord Jesus Christ mentioned
    in the Bible

    Could Mohammad top that?
    What does the Koran say?
     
  5. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Yes true. That’s why God keeps sending us Teachers and Educators.
     
  6. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    That’s free will. People have the choice of obeying or disobeying and God leaves us to learn from our mistakes. I think we have learned a lot but there’s still a lot more to learn.
     
  7. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Beliefs don't count in this thread, people, they don't count.
     
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  8. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    The problem is you answered your question in your OP ;)

    Same with all of the people you mentioned, it was their followers/successors who spread their beliefs widely (although they were likely more well known in their lifetimes).
     
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  9. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    yes of course.....and if you like we can do a thread about the Holy Family
     
  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    yeah well……..here we are.....Religious Forums ….

    and though the word belief is not in the title of this discussion.....
    it kinda is
     
  11. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Historical Jesus discussion too lacklustre? I should not really compare Jesus history to King William I or such, but I am. I know why William is famous and we have information and outside sources for what he did. Jesus seems to be famous for being famous.
     
  12. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I would say yeah and frame that with the motivation most believers exhibit....
    they want to go to heaven

    so there's a lot of dogma to sort through
    miracles and events...….

    but of course the primary play of a prophet type character would be is teachings

    His parables are the saving grace
     
  13. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Since no one has said anything of value yet, is it safe to say 'nothing?'
     
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  14. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    I did not say he can't, I said you have zero evidence that he ever did cause those earthquakes. You have no evidence, by the way, that God didn't personally warp the minds of John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy. I'll bet you even agree that he could if he wanted to! So why don't you believe that to be true, as well?

    So my very simple question is this: why, in the absence of any evidence at all, and with some actual understanding of the sciences of plate tectonics and psychology, do you suppose God did it in one case, and didn't in the other? That certainly seems to be an inconsistent way of reasoning, in my opinion.
     
  15. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Because that's not the character of God in the Bible. Attribute it to Satan instead. That's his nature.

    It was enlightening when reading both the Old and New Testaments to read about all the things that God did and could do. Hundreds of examples. And why should or could I believe God can do such things? In many cases it fits history. Jerusalem was sacked 30-40 years after it was prophesied. The more you read the more examples of things like that you'll find. Hope that somewhat answers your question.
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    there is a parable called the Wedding Feast
    and one of the characters had nothing to say when questioned

    that character was bound hand and foot and thrown into the outer darkness
    for a weeping and gnashing of teeth

    so.....what happens when you critique a line of discussion?
    and then choose to say nothing
     
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  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    What year is it today?

    upload_2019-5-13_11-24-48.jpeg

    I wonder why is it so?
    Do you think Mohammad has something to do with this?
     
  18. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Do you have any examples for Muhammad and Baha'u'llah?
     
  19. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Mara Bar Serapion likely referred to Jesus Christ as the "wise king" whom the Jews executed ; this according to a letter Mara bar Serapion wrote to his son when according to most scholars, Mara bar Serapion was held in captivity within Roman occupied Syria near the time of 72 A.D...

    [​IMG]
     
    #239 Salvador, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  20. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    What Did Jesus Actually Do?

    Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, Friday at 10:40 PM.

    Answer: He did not marry. He awaits his bride, his Church on Judgement Day.

    What Did Muhammad Actually Do?

    Answer: He had 11 wives. I don't know if you call that an achievement. Having one wife is one wife too many.:(

    [​IMG]
     
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