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Featured What are your thoughts on Christianity?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by MatthewA, May 10, 2021.

  1. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe as a Christian I can say a lot about it.

    First not everyone calling himself Christians is one in essence.
    Second not every Christian gets things right, not even the Apostle Paul.
    Third there is a growth process. A new Christian has to be cut some slack because He is still growing.
     
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  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe none of what you mentioned has anything to do with essential Christianity. So my question is: Have you heard the Gospel?
     
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  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is really bad news for those who are wicked and evil.
     
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  4. MatthewA

    MatthewA Active Member

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    Okay, Muffled.

    Do agree with you about New Christians, though do believe that (Ephesians 1:1 )Apostle Paul knew and had a huge expansive knowledge about God, and Jesus Christ, and sure there may be people out there who profess in believing but maybe do not really know him Jesus Christ as closely as they could.

    Thank you for your comment.
     
    #64 MatthewA, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  5. Rival

    Rival Inodj har-ek Horu
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    So you don't think the Messiah not fulfilling the prophecies necessary to make him the Messiah matters?
     
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  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the reason you found 'Christianity ' really ' wasn't all that different ' is because you were comparing ' Christendom' (so-called Christian ) with the others out there.
    When the ancient pagan people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious-myth practices and ideas and spread them over the continents into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
    Those ancient peoples spawned an endless variety of ideas spanning the world with them and that is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious ideas or concepts. Mostly out of harmony with Jesus' teachings.
    In other words, ancient Babylon's dominate feature was false religious ideas, so modern Babylon the Great (world of religious myth) is like her ancient counterpart which ancient Babylon helped develop into the modern monstrosity called ' Christendom ' . Christendom the fake 'weed/tares ' Christians Jesus warned against.
    Whereas, 1st-century Bible writings are out of harmony with modern-day Christendom because Christendom's teachings are often out of harmony with Christian teachings as found in Scripture.
    One example: the dead are really alive: whereas Jesus uniquely taught the dead are 'sleeping' (unconscious) John 11:11-14.
    Both can't be right: Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures and that is where Jesus learned that the dead are Not conscious and know nothing just like a sleeping person - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
    If the dead were conscious there would be No need for a resurrection because the dead would be alive.
     
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  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    "Babylon the Great" was used as a cloaked reference to the Roman Empire. The feminine name "Babylona" shows up in one of Peter's epistles, and it's a reference to the city of Rome.

    The authors probably used these words to draw a parallel with the Babylonian Exile several hundred year previous whereas Israelites did not have control over their own land, which also was the case later with the Roman occupation of eretz Israel during Jesus' time period.
     
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  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    A Vestigial Mote said : “Christianity brings out the worst in people in many ways, honestly. I have seen it time and time again.

    1. Passive aggressiveness, incredulity at even the most common or well-intentioned things that aren't explicitly "Christian,"

    2. claims made without regard to any ability to discern the truth of the things being said,

    3. calls of "amen" going up around the church after some of the most inane statements I have heard in my life,

    4. people crying and writhing with "the spirit"

    5. which I have never once seen come to any actual result other than the further confirmation of these people's own biases,

    6. missionaries thinking that they know better than everyone else on EARTH what "the truth" is

    7. and believing themselves oh so righteous for going around

    8. convincing others of things that they themselves have no business believing, let alone propagating,

    9. people truly believing that their own, personal opinions have the backing of some higher power.

    10. There is no end of intellectual travesty to be had in Christianity, even as there is also good being done by its adherents - though, even that usually not without some form of attempt to convert/convince.”



    I agree with one’s above points (now numbered by me).

    What is “Passive aggressiveness” meant to be? Please elaborate for us. Right?

    Regards
     
  9. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Points 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 also apply to Ahmadiyya Islam in my opinion.

    And how can you agree with point number 1 if you dont even know what it means?
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Huh? Rome/ Roman Empire ? I wonder how the symbolic ' Great City ' that has a kingdom (government) over the kings (political rulers) of the Earth....- Revelation 17:18 - describes a literal Rome________
    How does a literal Rome sit on ' peoples ', 'crowds ' and ' nations '________
    She (Babylon the Great) plays the harlot by committing fornication with earth's kings ( Rome doesn't do that ).
    - Revelation 1:1-2; Revelation 1:15.

    I find there are nine verses of Scripture but none saying Peter was in Rome.
    1 Peter 5:13 shows Peter in Babylon. 1 Peter 1:1 has Peter writing to converts from Not Roman but from Jewish communities.
     
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  11. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    It would probably be best to present an example of direct aggression, and juxtapose this with "passive aggression" for the same situation.

    So, a directly aggressive statement might be: "What you did was terrible - I think you should be punished, and even an eternity of torment might not be long enough."

    Passive-aggressively saying the same sort of thing (with a "Christian" spin this time): "The Bible informs us that people who commit [insert sin] cannot gain God's favor, and removing oneself from God for too long or in too many ways will result in punishment in the afterlife."

    In the passive aggressive version, they don't specifically mention YOU in their proclamation that what you did is wrong, and they blame the punishment they think you (or other people like you) should receive on "God" and "The Bible" - in other words, something like "I didn't write the rules" - even though their displeasure at whatever it is you have done may be entirely their own, and based in their own opinions - they just don't have the backbone to tell you that directly, or to come at you with an aggressive position. Rather, they present it to you passively, probably hoping that they don't have to bear the brunt of whatever complaints or rebuttal you have against their statements/opinion. Instead, you now have to contend with God or "The Bible" - and who can question God, right? At least - that is likely what the passive aggressive person is hoping - that the person they are actively engaging recognizes "God" or "The Bible" as some form of authority and therefore won't challenge their flimsy little opinions.
     
    #71 A Vestigial Mote, May 17, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Seriously?

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    After leaving the church, I realized I had never been christian. I wasn't raised as such and only been in the Church four years of my adult life.

    I didn't have any bad experiences in the Church. I had a priest yell at me once. In a nondenominational church I had a seizure (about the same time 12 years ago) and they thought I had the holy spirit in me. Held me down and tried to get the HS from me. No one called 911. They said one of the members was saved from a heart attack by the holy spirit (weird, they were getting it from me and not christ ;)). All my other experiences where neutral or beautiful. One priest in my first confession spent a couple hours with me in his office. The Church retreat was great and I like how you can have private devotion time and much resources in the Church.

    My hangup isn't christians but some of the theology, history, never believed god existed, and never ever based my life on the bible. So, it was a spiritual learning experience but not an awakening one.

    Specifically in the bible I don't agree with? Well. Everything.

    I'm now indifferent about it.
     
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  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Because the Roman Empire conquered other kingdoms.

    In the oldest text in Greek, the feminine form is used, thus it's the city of Rome that's being referred to.

    Also, here:
    The writings of the 1st century Church Father Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35 – c. 107) refer to Peter and Paul giving admonitions to the Romans, indicating Peter's presence in Rome.[76]

    Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130 – c. 202) wrote in the 2nd century that Peter and Paul had been the founders of the Church in Rome and had appointed Linus as succeeding bishop.[77]

    Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 – c. 215) states that "Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome (A.D. 190)."[78]

    According to Origen (184–253)[65] and Eusebius,[66] Peter "after having first founded the church at Antioch, went away to Rome preaching the Gospel, and he also, after [presiding over] the church in Antioch, presided over that of Rome until his death".[79] After presiding over the church in Antioch for a while, Peter would have been succeeded by Evodius[80] and thereafter by Ignatius, who was a student of John the Apostle.[81]

    Lactantius, in his book called Of the Manner in Which the Persecutors Died, written around 318, noted that "and while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the true religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord."[82]...
    -- Saint Peter - Wikipedia
     
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  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    What if orthodox Christianity is not real Christianity and you threw the baby out with the filthy bath water....? What if God hates it as much as you do?

    Did you not know that Jesus and his apostles warned about a counterfeit form of Christianity that would be sown by the devil? It was trying to make inroads while the apostles were still alive, but when they died, there was nothing to stop it, and what came out of that was Roman Catholicism. When the Reformation took place, Protestants took a lot of her lies with them.

    Maybe what you didn’t believe as a kid in Sunday School were lies anyway? That is what I discovered....
     
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  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    śrī kṛṣṇasya sevāyām - “In Lord Krishna’s service”
    Of all the forms and denominations of Christianity, Orthodox Christianity follows an unbroken line from the apostles to now. They passed their authority to their successors. There have been no changes in almost 2,000 years. Every other denomination of Christianity deviated from Orthodoxy, which began in the year 1054. Attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. What may seem to make no sense are commemorations and re-enactments of early Christianity. Your repeated slams against other denominations of Christianity and other religions in general is beyond tiresome, not to mention rife with inaccuracies.
     
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  16. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    The RCC says the same about themselves.
    I think, unlike with Protestantism where some left, the Great Schism was a true split with each side having an equal piece of the history.
     
  17. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    To an extent I agree. Both were probably right and both were probably wrong. A schism had been brewing for years. However, it was the papal legate who stormed into the cathedral of Patriarch Michael and slapped a bull of excommunication onto the altar. I don’t think he even stayed for communion. :D Of course, the Eastern Church responded in kind. It might have been an inevitable drifting apart and not such drama, but who knows? Even then, the differences were linguistic, political and cultural. The biggest theological difference iirc is the Filioque issue. In any case, my belief is that both Churches can claim common descent with only those (relatively) minor differences. I don’t think any of the Protestant denominations ... not Southern Baptists, not LDS, not JW, not even the Anglican Church are a shadow of the original Church. Of course, those are just my observations.
     
    #77 Jainarayan, May 18, 2021
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  18. Marcion

    Marcion gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma

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    My observations about the early Christian Church are that its origins are mainly to be found in the second century.
    The idea that Christianity started with the Christian type of Jesus in the first century was formed by the author who extended the gospel of Luke and wrote Acts.
    The story about the origins of Christianity in Acts is however mostly mythical, a projection back into the past and is not a real or true history.
    The Pauline letters and their extended and supplemented versions are also a product of the second century and not based on history (not real letters, but pseudo-graphical). They originated within the gnostic Marcionite branch that was later adopted (in a heavily adjusted form) as part of Christianity by the orthodox branch.

    In the second century there was a handful of groups that followed Jesus in some way or another, orthodox Christianity was just one of them, another large branch was Marcionite Christianity and there were a few smaller older and quite different branches that we know very little about (the Ebionites were vegetarians who lived a very sober life style) and that cannot be seen as Christian in the sense that we know it.

    What we recognize as Christanity is a hybrid religion with Jewish, Hellenistic, Roman and weakened gnostic (Pauline) influences that has more or less lost its connection to the original mission of Jesus that was centered on the personality of Jesus and the cult that Jesus taught to his disciples.

    This all means that the attempts by the restaurationist sects to reconnect to the original Church are based on loose sand. Christianity is a hybrid or syncretic religion that was created by people who borrowed from cults or religions that they already knew or were a part of before they joined the earlier cults around Jesus. Christianity did not originate around Jesus and did not yet exist in the first century.
     
    #78 Marcion, May 18, 2021
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Just for the record, I agree. Fortunately, the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican Churches do now fully recognize their common ancestry, thus the question of what's the "true church" is pretty much moot.
     
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  20. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    The irony as I see it is that they recognize each other’s sacraments... at least the RCC and EOC do. When I joined the EOC at 23 or 24 years old it was enough to show I had been baptized Catholic. I needed only be chrismated in the EOC. My Catholic baptism was valid. All the other sturm und drang ... go figure. :shrug:
     
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