If I had not been Catholic - and liked being Catholic - it would be harder to answer questions because there are so many bias around the Catholic Church; and, I don't care for bias.
The razor edge strikes both ways.
@shunyadragon compared the Church with paganism. That means, to me and many Catholics, you are comparing a person's relationship with Christ to what they-Catholics themselves-feel are not of god. It's irony. Catholics do not believe in paganism because it is not part of Christianity.
I believe the comparison is valid, but of course, believers will not agree.
Queen of Heaven
Theotokos: How the Mother Goddess became Mary
Posted on
September 1, 2010by
Carisa
The Theotokos of Vladimir dates from the 12th Century. It is reputed to have been protecting Russia ever since.
Mary becomes Mother of God: The year 431 A.D. was a momentous one in the history of the Queen of Heaven. That’s the year the church fathers, meeting in Ephesus in modern day Turkey, officially declared that Mary is Theotokos, literally, in Greek, the one who gave birth to God. More commonly her title is paraphrased as Mother of God. This was an important political step, as it clarified for the theologians that Jesus was both God and man. Perhaps just as importantly, however, it pacified the people, who were demanding that Mary be acknowledged as a divinity.
Technically, the church denied Mary as divine, as a Goddess, but in practical terms, it conveyed a sense of holiness which made her a viable rival to that other popular Roman/Greek/Egyptian hybrid Goddess of the time, represented variously as Diana, Cybele, and Isis. As a result of their decision, Mary’s divinity has been able to shine through in art and writing and devotion of those who love her.
Beautiful artwork throughout the world depicts Mary holding her infant son exactly as Isis had done for thousands of years before her. Many a home today displays a Christmas creche with Mary tenderly watching over the babe who is God incarnate. Mary is referred to as Mother of God in both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, which together represent the majority of the Christian faithful.
Many people pray to this Queen of Heaven to intercede for them and miraculous cures and protections of entire countries in war are attributed to her and to her icons. The Vladimir Madonna, pictured above, is, for example, said to have saved Russia from Tamerlane in 1395, the Tatars in the 15th century, and even from Germany in World War II. A similar icon in Cosenza, Italy, has a spot which is said to represent the icon’s having absorbed the plague in the 16th Century and protected the city’s residents from that dread disease. And that’s just what her
icons can do.
Here is a copy of what is claimed to be a very ancient prayer to Mary, dating to perhaps the 2nd or 3rd century:
We turn to you for protection,
Holy Mother of God
Listen to our prayers
and help us in our needs.
Save us from every danger,
glorious and blessed Virgin
Historical context of the year Mary was named Mother of God: The Roman Empire was in decline in 431 A.D. In just over 40 years, according to many historians, the Western Roman Empire, based in Rome, would fall. The West and East had split into separate empires by this time and the Eastern Empire would be ruled for another thousand years from Constantinople (now called Istanbul) in Turkey. We don’t hear as much about the Eastern half in school these days, but when we do, it’s usually referred to as the Byzantine Empire. The people who lived there, however, didn’t call themselves Byzantines. They called themselves Romans. Culture and learning continued there as the West sank into the Dark Ages and then developed the Medieval culture celebrated so often in legend and fairy tales. As the West declined, though, Christianity was on the rise.
How did Christianity take over the West? It started about 100 years before the church fathers met in Ephesus, when the emperor of a then united Rome, Emperor Constantine, converted after a successful battle which he attributed to intervention by the Christians’ God. The whole of Rome was converted officially under the later Emperor Theodosius in 391 AD. Then the empire split into eastern and western halves in 395 AD. The eastern empire was ruled from Constantinople, a city which had earlier been founded by Constantine (hence the name) as a Christian city. Much later, in the 11th century, the religion of the east, including Greece, Turkey, and southeastern Europe, was to split from Roman Catholicism, becoming the Eastern Orthodox Church. Orthodox worshipers, like Catholics, venerate Mary.
In the year 431, though, the church was still more or less united and the church fathers met for the Third Ecumenical Council in Ephesus. Every time they met like this, theological ideas would be made into official dogma, churches with different theological ideas would be declared heretics and some churches would peel off from “mainstream” Christianity and generally fade into obscurity. This time, 250 bishops showed up to vote on whether Jesus was God and man both at the same time and, hence, whether Mary was literally the Mother of God. The pro-Theotokos (Mother of God) faction was backed, not surprisingly, by the Egyptians, who venerated images of Mary reminiscent of those of Isis. Bribes were given and fighting ensued in the streets in the lead-up to the bishops’ vote on this question. They voted yes, a group called the Nestorians went home really mad (also, heretics), and the crowds went wild, cheering in the streets when the vote was announced.
Model of the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus. Photo by Zee Prime
Why the people loved it: To understand
why church decisions are made and how they are received, it’s often very important to step outside the official documents and take a look at what else was going on at the time. It’s no coincidence, surely, that Ephesus was home to one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, the Temple of Artemis. Artemis (Roman Diana) was a powerful Greek Goddess, one of the 12 Olympians, a Virgin who protected mothers and children, a huntress often associated with the Moon. Her beautiful temple at Ephesus was reputedly torn down stone for stone by a Christian mob about 30 years before the Third Ecumenical Council met.
This statue of Artemis/Cybele shows her torso covered with breasts and her skirt covered with animals. It is from her temple at Ephesus and dates to the 1st century.
Artemis was, in Ephesus, merged, rather strangely, with the Earth Mother Goddess Cybele, who is the source of both the many breasted image of the Goddess (shown, left) and her association with animals. Perhaps most significantly, Cybele was the mother of a god-hero son Attis, who died and was resurrected by her. Cybele’s worship in Turkey may have been very ancient indeed. The Greeks considered her the Mother of the Gods, Magna Mater, and her symbolic images are consistent with those of a prehistoric Goddess worshiped in Turkey as early as 6,000 B.C. (That’s 2,000 years before some Biblical literalists believe the world began, and 4,000 years before Abraham became father of the Jewish people. Also, obviously, 6,000 years before the beginnings of Christianity.)
The simple fact of the matter, I believe, is that the people
needed a divine mother. They had worshiped one for thousands of years here and with the church becoming increasingly male, patriarchal, monotheistic and intolerant of other religions, the people needed an outlet for their deeply felt desire to venerate the feminine divine. So it is perhaps no surprise that the people demanded that Mary be called Mother of God. And so she was. From 431 on, devotion to Mother Mary would grow in art and architecture, song and hymn. Prayers would go up to the Queen of Heaven, as they had for millennia, but increasingly it was by her new name, Mary, that the Great Mother would be called upon by the faithful."
Yes.
The Catholic Church is the body of Christ.
To simplify it.
A Church holds people who gather together in worship.
A body and mass means more than one person
Christ said if more than one person is present in his name, he is present
If you go to Mass (upper M) you will see more then one person.
Therefore the body of christ is present.
This is an assertion of faith ONLY believed by those who believe in the Roman Church
The Catholic Church is the body of Christ.
Whether you want to talk about if putting Roman in there invalidates the definitions, is up to you guys. I also told
@shunyadragon that the Church isn't Roman.
If I were a believer I would call it the Roman Catholic Church, because I would believe it is the 'Universal' Church. but I do not believe this, therefore I believe it is the Roman Church headed by the Bishop of Rome.
I just happen to be confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and feel it does mirror scripture. That's me and thousands of Catholics etc. . .
Interesting, you consider the fact that you were 'confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church,' just happened to be. ? That's odd.
Not everyone agrees, but then thousands of denominations trying to hold the truth shocks me really.
Actually thousands of denominations do not all hold to the claims of the Roman Church, They each hold to one variation of the above.
If I went off of who practices scripture, I'd say the Church hands down. If I said who knows more about scripture than any denomination I've been to, it would be JW.
JW? Jehovah Witness? They take a harder line on the Trinity being pagan, and false beliefs than I do. In fact they command that their believers not even set foot in a Roman Church.
JW (Jehovah Witnesses) also believe in a literal YEC Creationist world view.
I'm not bias about religion.
Oh boy! If you expect me to believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you and you can go drive on any time you want, except in rush hour.
The bottom line is bias is a universal human attribute.
