What are "useful habits" (NWT) that are spoiled by "bad associations"?

[savagewind]

According to how I was taught it by the Jehovah's Witnesses it means being friends with the world will spoil a person's relationship with God.

If that be so then, is a person's relationship with God a "useful habit"?

How do you understand that scripture, and please also comment on what "bad associations" means to you.

This is how I read it in the Greek interlinear
corrupts
character
good
companions
bad

1 Corinthians 15:33 Greek Texts and Analysis

 

[savagewind]

Just because I think differently does not mean I am crazy. I was thinking wow, if intelligent aliens actually did visit Earth, so what? They would come, they would go..... and nobody would be the wiser. Good strategy, just in case.... LOL

I wrote what I think in my blog. Can I add that here?

Consequences are pending OOPS

Bible Study

 

[ratikala]

dear savage wind

According to how I was taught it by the Jehovah's Witnesses it means being friends with the world will spoil a person's relationship with God.

If that be so then, is a person's relationship with God a "useful habit"?

excuse me posting out of my tradition (dharmic religions)but this thought is also prevelant in hindu teachings where knowledge of god is the ultimate purpouse of life , so to develop a relationship with god is concidered the best use of human life , so the answer to your question a "useful habit"? , ... yes !

How do you understand that scripture, and please also comment on what "bad associations" means to you.

I will have to look it up , but from my understanding within my own practice ,
that which destracts one from cultivating god conciousness and leeds one to concentrate on worldly activities alone , is most certainly bad association !

This is how I read it in the Greek interlinear
corrupts
character
good
companions
bad

1 Corinthians 15:33 Greek Texts and Analysis

 

[savagewind]

Thank you for your answer. I agree and I am in similar pursuit.

But I can't imagine that is what the writer means. If it is not what the writer of 1Corinthians 15:33 means, but people persist in teaching it wrong, even though the essence of the wrong teaching is right, it being a lie would lead a searcher away from the Living God, not toward. It is my understanding that leaning on error is what prevents a person from ever finding true knowledge.

For Bible believers it can cause a person to be misled. I know that when I am misunderstood, which is often, believe me, I am sorry, I feel discouraged. Can the writers of Holy Books be discouraged too if people misunderstand what they wrote? I think so.

 

[ratikala]

dear savagewind

Thank you for your answer. I agree and I am in similar pursuit.

But I can't imagine that is what the writer means. If it is not what the writer of 1Corinthians 15:33 means, but people persist in teaching it wrong, even though the essence of the wrong teaching is right, it being a lie would lead a searcher away from the Living God, not toward. It is my understanding that leaning on error is what prevents a person from ever finding true knowledge.

far be it for me to inturpret the bible , but I feel we should read all texts in the context that they are writen , understanding them in that context one is then able to apply that wisdom to other situations ie how we our selves should act .

For Bible believers it can cause a person to be misled. I know that when I am misunderstood, which is often, believe me, I am sorry, I feel discouraged. Can the writers of Holy Books be discouraged too if people misunderstand what they wrote? I think so.

of course it is natural to feel discouraged , yet I would imagine that the writer of any holy book simply passes on the word and would have done so out of love for the word and in the hope that others may benifit from the understanding of it , yet true understanding takes time and any sincere writer would convey the message without personal attatchment to any out come , like any true teacher the writer is there to convey a message not to judge the reader , we should feel the same way when in ernest we try to explain an understanding but find that others do not understand , prehaps we do not speak their language , it does not nececarily mean that one is wrong , we are all at different levels in our spiritual understanding and all learning to ballance material life and our knowledge of god , and understandings such as these are very personal and only in time do we build a complete picture .

good association is that which can openly explore and reach a conclusion , not that which blindly imputes a meaning which they have not fully explored simply because they have been told it is so , true knowledge comes from that personal exploration, ...well at least I would find it to be so .

 

[savagewind]

Yes! "true knowledge comes from personal exploration".

I learned the Bible with a group that had the rule All Must Agree on what is taught by the leaders who claimed exclusive companionship with the Lord "Jesus" who told them what to tell. And then everyone had to cooperate with all decisions coming from the leaders.

After I left the group I explored on my own and have made it my aim to stop the spreading of lies. It is harmful to believe a lie in my opinion. Believing a lie might prevent people from finding answers to problems that effect the helpless.

They are waiting for the problem solver to arrive but we are the problem solvers. Aren't we?

 

[ratikala]

dear savagewind ,

Yes! "true knowledge comes from personal exploration".

I learned the Bible with a group that had the rule All Must Agree on what is taught by the leaders who claimed exclusive companionship with the Lord "Jesus" who told them what to tell. And then everyone had to cooperate with all decisions coming from the leaders.

there is possibility for great wisdom or great madness in this way of thinking , but because of the claim of exclusive companionship with the lord , personaly I would worry , I belive that through sincere devotion everyone has the capacity for companionship with the lord , it is within the heart of all .

After I left the group I explored on my own and have made it my aim to stop the spreading of lies. It is harmful to believe a lie in my opinion. Believing a lie might prevent people from finding answers to problems that effect the helpless.

sadly witin all religious traditions there is a tendancy to try to control and through this desire to control come false assertions , I try not to see these actions as deliberate lies , but look sympatheticaly on such missguided behavoir .
yes I agree that it is harmful to belive a lie , but in ways it is the human plight , we grow up with ignorance all around and it is for us to search for the truth .

They are waiting for the problem solver to arrive but we are the problem solvers. Aren't we?

yes ,
we can be both the cause of the problem and the solution , the truely humble take shelter of the lord and gently work out that solution , then with that solution understood they are fit to become one of the elders who teach or lead by love alone , it is those amongst us who leed without need for strict control and who share that companionship with the lord that are the true leaders .

 

[SnackerBob]

Savagewind: I grew up in similar surroundings. Good luck on your quest.
This verse clearly deals with a denial of resurrection, which fits in context.
It's also notable for Paul to quote Greek wisdom, as he was disdainful of it.
It seems like Paul was quoting a well known Greek adage here. Interpreting it as more than that is up to your local District Oversee- I mean PASTOR. Definitely Pastor.

 

[savagewind]

Thanks SnackerBob. LOL

I think the good habits that are spoiled are "seek righteousness, seek meekness"
Zephaniah 2:3

From my own personal experience it does not take "bad associations" with other people to ruin my quest for righteousness and my goal of putting on meekness. So what are the "bad associations" Paul notes? Are they not misunderstandings? "Association" having the sense of "communication" in the Greek. But it is easy for me to be wrong about that as I do not know Greek. Strong's Concordance knows it, I guess.

Also I am sure that after paying close attention to the way people think for many years and many philosophical posters on the internet that some of the written word should be off a touch. It is no longer safe to adopt all the words of Scripture as truth. And certainly not OK to rest on another man's interpretation of them all.

"Bad associations", does it not mean doing just that? Resting your mind on what Man thinks The Word says?

ratikala I love your style :namaste

 

[jtartar]

According to how I was taught it by the Jehovah's Witnesses it means being friends with the world will spoil a person's relationship with God.

If that be so then, is a person's relationship with God a "useful habit"?

How do you understand that scripture, and please also comment on what "bad associations" means to you.

This is how I read it in the Greek interlinear
corrupts
character
good
companions
bad

1 Corinthians 15:33 Greek Texts and Analysis

Savagewind,
Another scripture that goes along with this principle is at Prov 13:20. Everyone knows that a person that associates with another, often, will pick up some of their idiosyncracies.
The Bible tells us what the things of the flesh are, and what the things of the spirit are, Gal 5:19-23. Rom 8:4-8 explains how the thing of the flesh and the things of the spirit affect us. It seems that here we are told that it we are minding the flesh, we are sure to die, but if we are minding the spirit we gain everlasting life.
Another point to think about, is what Jesus said to Pontius Pilate at John 18:36. Jesus said that his Kingdom is no part of this world. James 4:4 says that a person who loves this world is an enemy, 1John 2:15-17. These things of the world, trying to gain riches, trying to gain power, politics, the military, gambling, showy display of ones means of life are all things of the world. All these things are a distraction to a Christian who wants to keep his mind on the coming kingdom, and the spiritual things, Matt 6:19-24, 31-33.
A Christian must be a footstep follower of Jesus, 1Pet 2:21, a person who has his interest on the things of this world cannot help a Christian to keep strong in his faith.
This probable why Paul wrote what he did at 2Cor 6:14-18.
In this wicked world it is very hard to keep ones mind on the things of the spirit when we are constantly bombarded with immorality at every turn, movies, books, even commercials, the internet, tv games. Having too much association with a person who has his mind on these things will not help a Christian to be strong in resisting these things, 1Pet 5:8-10, Eph 6:10-13.
A very real problem is that many people pretend to be Christians and are not, Titus 1:16, 1John 2:6, 3:18, Matt 7:21-23, 2Cor 11:12-15.

 

[savagewind]

Yes, it is true. But it presents the only place in the scriptures where a warning is sounded about being misled by what a person believes so then to ignore the sign for what it is and to make it mean something ELSE is doing what it says do not do. And if you do do what it says not to do you will be misled "DO NOT be misled"

Thank you for the scriptures. I will offer you the other pov with scripture.

Please note on Biblos the scripture is worded with five words that don't appear in the same form in any other place but at 15:33 (according to Strong's Concordance)

Proverbs 3:5
Romans 10:2
1 Corinthians 5:6 the leaven being misunderstanding, no?
Revelation 19:10 "worship God" are you worshiping The Word?
Galatians 5:7-10 Here is a good example to test if it is the WORD you worship. (The word is not the living God) Someone will say Paul speaks of the circumcision there so the truth he wrote there can be applied ONLY to the circumcision. Is that right?
Revelation 20:20-23
What is spiritual idolatry? Idolatry means "worthless" so spiritual idolatry means going the wrong way in understanding, doesn't it?

Why do I think the warning about belief is not more prominent in scripture? Because if it was too obvious it would cause fear not hope. "I am afraid I might be believing it incorrectly". What does fear do? Fear causes paralysis which is the opposite of "seek".

 

[savagewind]

I shall add another.

Broad and spacious the road leading to destruction. Narrow and cramped the road leading to life and few are the ones finding it.

It means knowledge, not works. And knowledge is built up. The truth will set you free. A believer is a person who believes the truth that sets one free that is built up but cramped and not popular. Few are the ones finding it.

Many people believe the understanding of The Word that has been passed down by the scribes and the pharisees.

 

[rusra02]

According to how I was taught it by the Jehovah's Witnesses it means being friends with the world will spoil a person's relationship with God.

If that be so then, is a person's relationship with God a "useful habit"?

How do you understand that scripture, and please also comment on what "bad associations" means to you.

This is how I read it in the Greek interlinear
corrupts
character
good
companions
bad

1 Corinthians 15:33 Greek Texts and Analysis

Comparing other Bible translations of this scripture shows the NWT rendered it accurately. One translation states "Associating with bad people will ruin decent people." The context of this scripture also helps us understand who "bad associations" may be. This chapter deals with the basis for belief in the resurrection. Some of the Corinthian Christians had apparently been influenced by the Epicurean philosophers and claimed there is no resurrection. (15:12) Such unwholesome influences apparently moved the Bible writer to give this warning. Who we associate with can impact our morals by misleading us from the path of truth. What we believe greatly affects what we do and how we live our lives.

 

[savagewind]

I can't believe God would make the evil of people powerful enough to influence good for bad but not the power of love to influence bad for good. You might say that love transforms bad into good and that is true but the bad transformed is no longer bad, it is good.

Daniel was in a city surrounded by idols, and some very bad people. He even served with them. Why weren't his habits spoiled?

 

[rusra02]

I can't believe God would make the evil of people powerful enough to influence good for bad but not the power of love to influence bad for good. You might say that love transforms bad into good and that is true but the bad transformed is no longer bad, it is good.

Daniel was in a city surrounded by idols, and some very bad people. He even served with them. Why weren't his habits spoiled?

For the same reason a Christian's good habits are not spoiled by the world around them. They are in the world, but are not part of the world. (John 17:16) Daniel determined not to allow the environment he was in to spoil his faith and integrity. (Daniel 1:8) Had he integrated himself into Babylonian society, he would doubtless not have had the same outcome. The Bible warns about seeking friendship with the world. (James 4:4) If one seeks out the philosophies and friendship with those who have no love for God, one's faith and morals are likely to suffer. (Proverbs 13:20)
I believe that what the Bible says is true. That we are sinful by nature. Therefore, it is easier to to what is wrong than what is right, and this accounts (in part) for the power of bad associations to harm us. (Genesis 8:21)

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[savagewind]

For the same reason a Christian's good habits are not spoiled by the world around them. They are in the world, but are not part of the world. (John 17:16) Daniel determined not to allow the environment he was in to spoil his faith and integrity. (Daniel 1:8) Had he integrated himself into Babylonian society, he would doubtless not have had the same outcome. The Bible warns about seeking friendship with the world. (James 4:4) If one seeks out the philosophies and friendship with those who have no love for God, one's faith and morals are likely to suffer. (Proverbs 13:20)
I believe that what the Bible says is true. That we are sinful by nature. Therefore, it is easier to to what is wrong than what is right, and this accounts (in part) for the power of bad associations to harm us. (Genesis 8:21)

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Thank you

I believe what you say but I must disagree with the last part. It is not the bad associations that harm a person's useful habit for "putting on the new man" Colossians 3:9,10 it is a change of heart that does it. You should not blame the other person for it but that is where that scripture has evolved to mean. It's a shame, and it causes the separating of people, not the reconciliation of people.

 

[savagewind]

If it is proved by Science that space and time is not independent of thought then a "bad association" that you never met can "spoil" your "useful habit". Is that not so?

In other words you would not need to "rub shoulders with" another person whose idea is to knock your idea off. All he would have to do is persist in it.

I don't mean it would need proving to be made effective LOL

 

[savagewind]

Scripture? I do. I believe opposites possess the same characteristics but on extreme ends of spectrum. I will present the opposite precedent.

Opposite

Matthew 5:8-13

Notice that the faith of the centurion believed the healing could occur without presence.

So I believe the opposite can be true also. Evil done without presence.

Is that not why it is my job to "overturn strongly entrenched things"? 2 Corinthians 10:4

 

[savagewind]

another scriptural warning is at Romans 10:1-4

If "bad associations" means people then everyone is bad association. Because there is no one yet with the mind of Christ so everyone's ignorance of righteousness will be causing a spoiling of "useful habits". No? Or are You judging degrees of righteousness? How right does a person have to be to be "good association"?

1Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[savagewind]

So I look up the scholarly cross references for 1 Corinthians 15:33 "do not be misled bad associations spoil useful,habits" because someone said my understanding of it is bizzare and incomprehensible.

This is what I have found:

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

What are the "such things"? People? No, it refers to "empty words". Why doesn't it say this; because by such (people) God's wrath comes? It should say people, not things, as the critic says it says.

How about this one? Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Why doesn't it say this?; A man is led away by deceivers.

Here's one; …5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed Which is used to prove bad people cause badness in others. But the leaven does not refer to the bad man that should be removed. It refers to the boasting. Who is boasting? It does not say his boasting. Does it?

2 Timothey 2:…15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus WHAT will spread? Their attitude? No. Their words.

See? You are removing people who have a difference of opinion because you believe they are bad association and will mislead you. It's words that mislead.

Some can be a saint in every other way. But if he is spreading false words he is bad. Yes or no?