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Featured What are the most important laws of life and existence?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by osgart, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    What are the best wisdoms for living this life?

    What creates peace? prosperity? freedom?

    Do you believe in human rights for all?

    What is in the best interests of every individual to live and do?

    What are the most important things?
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    You can't go past "the Golden Rule".

    Peace? Respect for others and a real desire to be a peacemaker (Matthew 5: 9) A peace maker is not the same as a peace keeper.

    Prosperity? Material prosperity is not something Jesus taught us to pursue....spiritual prosperity is a better goal (Matthew 6:19-21)

    Freedom? True freedom is experienced in the heart and mind. It means that the shackles that this world may want to put on you do not interfere with this freedom....even in a prison. (John 8:32)

    Human rights are pretty much determined by humans....so depending on which authority determines your rights you will have restrictions of some sort on your freedom. But total freedom is not something that brings anything but problems anyway.

    Some humans want rights to which they are not entitled. So this is a bit of a loaded question. Our "rights" need to be separated from our privileges IMO. We have to know the difference.

    To follow the instructions of our Maker....there is no better advice to follow. As our Creator, he knows what is best for us....we only get into trouble when we ignore him.

    Not things. :)
     
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  3. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I believe in human rights for all and that struggling for human rights for all will help create peace and a useful amount of freedom
     
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    May I ask who you will be struggling with so that human rights can be achieved for all? And what you consider to be "a useful amount of freedom"?

    In all his experience, has man ever been able to accomplish peace on earth?

    Do we need to get real here? If you are waiting for man to achieve these things, then I might suggest that you don't hold your breath. :( From his past track record I don't expect that man has the needed capacity to change his ways.
     
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  5. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    The various golden rules found by most of major cultures in the world seem almost innate to our species. Those who ignore them, tend to be the ones to disturb peace most.

    Lack of greed, nature, non-intervention.

    Excluding those that would end or hurt life of others, yes.

    Know yourself.

    In no particular order and not complete list:
    Nature, family, honor, helping those that need help without wanting them to do something in repayment, evening out debts, brotherhood/sisterhood. Humor. Understanding your age and related capabilities and duties.
     
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  6. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Existence is a desparate plight to survive for any living creature. How is it do you think that mankind has gotten this far? World War 2 put us at the brink of having no civilization whatsoever, empires have risen and fallen. Yet here we have western civilization with a rule of all that says that people deserve equal rights, and liberty is still fought for.

    Granted we have economic empires, and a large gap between rich and poor. But there is an amount of relative freedom. America holds up a republic for the people and by the people. If people lose interest in democracy then we are right back into savage dictatorships.

    There is no guarantee that humanity will maintain any freedom and every good thing is a result of people believing that equal rights for all is the best way to go.

    I know that people should not have all the rights they claim for themselves. But what i see is that civilized countries choose democratic freedom. And there are people out there that fight for this rule of law.

    Nothing has to be, if people dont create civilization, who will?

    So everything starts in the hearts and minds of people, and their plight, circumstance, and ingenuity to create civilization.

    All known civilizations could eventually one day return to tribal, dictatorial rule, savage rule, if knowledge, and resources and a way of life are not preserved.

    Whats making genocide happening in third world countries? Why is there any peace whatsoever?

    Its people deciding to tolerate and cooperate that we dont plunge into chaos.

    If there were no prosperity, and no way of life to preserve, then there would be no love, and no relative peace.
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Freedom, peace, equality, understanding, and acceptance. We all have the right to believe what we want without assuming and trying to make charity for people to be like us.

    Peace in heart will hopefully help people be comfortable with themselves and treat each other better when we aren't treated as Things and not people.

    I do believe in human rights for all.

    Best wisdom is what one can do for themselves, family, and community. No envangalizing our values on others. Diversity of morals and beliefs.

    Good education to kids (value of knowledge) and importance on health.
     
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  8. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Love God (whatever that is for you), love neighbor.
     
  9. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    You wont find me evangelizing to you.

    I never saw charity as an effort to conform people to their ways. Charity is only about giving people a chance to live and succeed, and be free.
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I disagree. We each contain the Divine spark that gives us the will, the agency, and the creativity to become more than we now are. We do have the capacity. Yes, our track record has been poor. But we do have the capacity to rise above the fear, greed, shortsightedness and self-absorption that keep us in the dirt.

    That (for the Christian) is the reason why God became Incarnate — to provide an example of the self-sacrificial love of which we are capable, and to make the grace of that love tangible and available to us.
     
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  11. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    The most important thing is knowing that Australia is better than New Zealand, and that New Zealand isn't a real country anyway.
     
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  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    To love one another, and this love needs to include compassion and justice (kindness) for all. Yep, hard for us to do at times, I know.
     
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  13. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    And sheep jokes about New Zealand
     
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  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    that question will swing in every direction

    for now......Kill the fatted calf!
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    ...he posted sheepishly.
     
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  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Yes, but... ‘MURRICA!!!
     
  17. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    America can be better than New Zealand too, if you like, I mean it's not hard. The important thing is that Australia is better than New Zealand, which doesn't exist anyway, hence all the elves and dragons and such.
     
  18. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Meanwhile...back to the seriousness of the topic....o_O

    Do you think that the Creator intended for life to "a desperate plight to survive"? If he is the loving God he claims to be, why are they struggling? If this was not his intention, then why is it so, when it feels so wrong?

    If we take the Bible's scenario as real (which I have no reason not to) then going back to the beginning, we should see what happened to derail the Creator's first purpose. A derailment is fixable....engine and carriages can be put back on mended tracks....and the people who fixed the problem should be able to see what went wrong and take measures to ensure that it doesn't happen again....right?

    I believe that the Creator is in the process of fixing the derailment of humankind so that we never end up in a mess like this ever again.

    The reason why we have not totally self destructed yet is nothing to do with man, but with God. In giving us free will, we had to learn how to drive it, operating it within the parameters set by the Creator. Teenagers put behind the wheel of a car need guidance and a sound knowledge of the road rules in order to be able to drive safely and not to endanger themselves or others....if they follow the rules and have a good teacher, then they will hopefully become "good" drivers. This is what God did at the beginning...he set the rules and personally coached the one who would in turn teach his family how to drive their free will.

    We as human beings, made in the image of our Creator, value this attribute....freedom is worth fighting for and humans continue to rail under regimes that rob them of their God given right to freedom from oppression. It is true that certain regimes have taken us to the brink of annihilation...but the Creator has a purpose to our being, and is allowing us to experience what it means to abuse the free will he gave us. We hate it when someone takes away our freedom...we hate it even more when other abuse their freedom and it impacts negatively on us. This is why we are still in existence....our object lesson is not quite complete....but I believe its getting very close.

    It is indeed a sad situation when the masses believe propaganda. Freedom can be a sad illusion and when people are told something for so long, that they can come to believe it even though the reality is nothing like it.
    As an example, we saw in the US president's speech to the UN General Assembly yesterday. He received a reaction to his proud reference to his superlative record as a leader of his nation that he was not expecting from his multinational audience. They laughed at him....but he didn't know why. Those who live outside of the US know why they laughed. He believed every word he said...but it appears that no one else did. Could there be a lesson right there, do you think? Can people's perceptions of the truth be so carefully managed that they don't see a con when it is happening right before their eyes?

    It is true that democracy is an ideal in principle, but it only works when applied to all members of society. If the "haves" are gaining all the wealth and not sharing it, then the "have nots" will continue to sit at a distance on their cold park benches and envy them their luxuries...you know, like a warm bed and some decent food. How many of the populations of so many democracies don't know where their next meal is coming from...or where they will sleep tonight?

    Equal rights are only equal if all can share in them.....we know that it is an ideal...but it has never been attainable.
    Power corrupts humans for the very reason that we were never meant to exercise power over others. What leader of any nation knows what its like to be poor and have no hope of their situation getting any better? Hunger and homelessness could be overcome if we just shared what we have with others...and teach them how to be self sufficient. We have lost that ability in this day and age and become dependent upon others to provide all of life's necessities.....dependency creates slaves, but the slaves are unaware that they are incarcerated in a system that 'owns' them....it owns their time and their energy and it takes a great deal of their earnings just to live. Yet they believe that they are "free". Its an illusion.

    Well, should we wait for humans to try some other form of rulership? They have tried everything else....all there is left is the one that the Bible says they will offer...a one world government...that will not spell freedom, but it will result in totalitarianism. It will be ushered in on the auspices that true "peace and security" will only ever be achieved by this next form of rulership. The Bible says it will be the trigger for total chaos. The resulting "great tribulation" will be worse than anything man has ever experienced before, but it will end with God restoring order, eliminating all resistors, and re-establishing his rulership over those ones who want his Kingdom to "come" and for his will to "be done on earth as it is in heaven". Having brought the object lesson to an end, humans will never be able to rebel against the Sovereignty of the Creator, ever again.

    Yes....but we have to see human rulership for what it is.....a total failure.
    Human imperfection (sin) won't allow it to work....corruption always ruins it.

    Peace is not just the absence of war.....true peace is a condition of the heart. It comes from a feeling of security and we already know that humans are justifiably incapable of trusting others, so "peace" can be as transient as the next dictators threat to use nuclear weapons...or the next terrorist bombing or mass shooting. Where there is no trust...there can be no love. We need both of these things to be truly happy.

    What "way of life" have humans ever had that actually delivered what we want and need to feel secure? Can you name a time in human history when we ever got it right?

    The only life that offers all we need, was given to mankind at the beginning, but they threw it away because they thought there was something better.....we have lived with the results of their decision for over 6,000 years now......indications are that we are entering the final phase now in a world where science and technology are reaching the point where progress takes on a whole new meaning with AI now mooted as a force to be reckoned with. "Big Brother's" intrusion into our lives will reach an all time high. No one will be able to make a move without his knowledge...or permission.

    Just after rebellion surfaced again after the flood of Noah's day, the self appointed leader of the world at that time was Nimrod who gathered his minions and set out on a quest to rule the world, gathering people into cities that he built, when God had told them to spread abroad in the earth. The Tower of Babel was a catalyst for God to act.

    Genesis 11:5-6 says..."Then Jehovah went down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. 6 Jehovah then said: “Look! They are one people with one language, and this is what they have started to do. Now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be impossible for them."

    I believe we have reached that point again...it will soon be time for God to act. It will have the same impact on the world that the flood did, only this time there will be no repeat performances. (Matthew 24:37-39)

    This is the way we see things, and how we would explain those questions osgart. The big picture makes sense.
     
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  19. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Having the capacity is not the issue....we may even have a collective will to make things better for all....but we are always at the mercy of the greedy few who thwart all efforts to make things better. In all of man's existence, he has never been able to govern himself successfully. It is not in his make-up to rule himself or others....God designed mankind to be ruled by him....but man's rejection of God's rulership has only resulted in failure after failure. He has allowed humans to experience for themselves, the folly of trying to do things successfully without him.

    Humanitarian efforts to help the plight of people caught in the crossfire of current world conditions are so overwhelmed that even the most dedicated aid workers are thrown into depression and despair over the situation. They see no end or solution to the world's ever increasing loss of peace and security....and the resulting refugee crisis. If you think humans have the capacity to solve their own problems then think again....man will never solve the problem because sinful man IS the problem. We need to learn that lesson and look to the Creator to bring in his solution. (Daniel 2:44)

    Don't look now but for the majority alive today, it is wasted. They don't believe it and have no appreciation for why Christ came to die for us. The benefits of his sacrifice are conditional.....if we reject them, then they don't apply to us...we are not saved.

    God sending his Christ into the world was not to solve the problems of humanity, but to provide the basis for some (a relative "few" in fact) to survive through the coming "great tribulation". (Matthew 24:21; Matthew 7:13-14) These will be the nucleus of the "new earth" that we are awaiting. (2 Peter 3:13) Christ's death will also mean a resurrection for the majority who presently sleep in death. (John 5:28-29)
    God's Kingdom will rule over these ones, bringing peace and security to all of earth's inhabitants. Nothing else makes sense to us....certainly not the view of "Christianity" that you present.
     
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  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    To act like no victories have been won just because an idealistic state of uber peace has not yet been achieved is to ignore real historic wins and under values the sacrifices made to achieve it.

    In Australia the right for aborigines to vote was won by good people. People who struggled to redress historical wrongs done and are still struggling for the rights of minoritys.

    Australia has a relative degree of peace - a peace which would quickly fall apart if we didn’t have police forces to ensure compliance to the rules of secular society.

    The real slight of hand in all this is that the JW church doesn’t have Jesus or any kind of Prophet sitting at the top receiving revelation from God - it is ruled by fallible men who are just as capable of corruption as the members of any political party are. Thus even if we were to tire of society run by human hands the JWs are not providing us with a genuine alternative - their leaders are just as human as the rest of us.
     
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