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What are the Central Positive Messages you Learned from the Quran?

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
In other threads I proposed that the Quran does not promote peaceful values.

Predictably, non-Muslims debated with Muslims about how to interpret the book (and specific verses in the book). Predictably, we seldom reached any consensus.

In this thread I'm hoping we can look at the Quran from a different perspective. There are many Muslims in this forum who have strong, positive feelings about this book. I'm wondering if any of you would offer something like a "Top Ten" or "Top Five" list. Something like:

"The Top 5-10 Positive Messages Offered by the Quran"

(Ultimately, I'm interested in understanding Muslim values and how they differ or are the same as secular values.)
 

Union

Well-Known Member
In other threads I proposed that the Quran does not promote peaceful values.

Predictably, non-Muslims debated with Muslims about how to interpret the book (and specific verses in the book). Predictably, we seldom reached any consensus.

In this thread I'm hoping we can look at the Quran from a different perspective. There are many Muslims in this forum who have strong, positive feelings about this book. I'm wondering if any of you would offer something like a "Top Ten" or "Top Five" list. Something like:

"The Top 5-10 Positive Messages Offered by the Quran"

(Ultimately, I'm interested in understanding Muslim values and how they differ or are the same as secular values.)

To me all messages of Qur'an are positive . Even when it prescribes for fight , it is also positive because the fight prescribed against the evil and injustice . Whatsoever , I will list you 5-10 of them soon:) .
 

Union

Well-Known Member
[002:062] Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[005:069] Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[022:017] Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God is witness of all things.

[017:033] Nor take life - which God has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

[002:182] But if anyone fears partiality or wrong-doing on the part of the testator, and makes peace between (The parties concerned), there is no wrong in him: For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[006:160] He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit: He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil: no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.

[042:041] But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.

[049:006] O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

[002:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.






 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I'm wondering if any of you would offer something like a "Top Ten" or "Top Five" list. Something like:

"The Top 5-10 Positive Messages Offered by the Quran"

Ok, here my Top 10, i'll add for some verses why i choose them (it's not in order of preference) Of course there's much more that i would add but it would be too long :


There's the verse that i have as a signature because for me it's a message for all those who feel they are alone and that God is too far, too high to listen to them :

2.186 And when My servants ask you, concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me.


This verse is about Joseph to his brothers, but it was also this verse that the prophet Muhammad choose to say to the Meccans people when he entered victorious in the city. He said : "i'll say to you what Joseph said to his brothers" and then he quoted the verse 12.92 :

12.92 He* said, "No blame will there be upon you today. Allah will forgive you; and He is the most merciful of the merciful."

(*Joseph)

This verse is very important because we all have problems in life and it make us remind that some people suffered a lot before us (because of wars, persecutions, etc) :

2.214Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said,"When is the help of Allah ?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near.


This verse is very important i think, because in general people like to judge and insult without knowing people well. Also it can be about appearence
:

49.11O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.


No comment on those verses :

16.4 He created man from a sperm-drop; then at once, he is a clear adversary.


2.268 Satan threatens you with poverty and orders you to immorality, while Allah promises you forgiveness from Him and bounty. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.


14.22 And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed, Allah had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your association of me [with Allah ] before.


17.14 [It will be said], "Read your record. Sufficient is yourself against you this Day as accountant."


This one is very interesting because this is the reality, when you are good to some people they (most of time) take advantage of you and also almost nobody will help you back when you'll need it (at least, that what i've witness for myself):

17.29 And do not make your hand [as] chained to your neck or extend it completely and [thereby] become blamed and insolvent.


And the last one i just think it's very touching because it's very sad to still see homeless and poor people. If everyone give in charity the problem would be solved :

2.273[Charity is] for the poor who have been restricted for the cause of Allah , unable to move about in the land. An ignorant [person] would think them self-sufficient because of their restraint, but you will know them by their [characteristic] sign. They do not ask people persistently [or at all]. And whatever you spend of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it.
 
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seeking4truth

Active Member
1...Ch.59 v.23
He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).
2...ch 59 v.24
He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
3. ch 59 v. 22
He is Allah besides Whom there is no god; the Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful
4. Ch. 109
Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
[002:062] Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[005:069] Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[022:017] Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God is witness of all things.

[017:033] Nor take life - which God has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

[002:182] But if anyone fears partiality or wrong-doing on the part of the testator, and makes peace between (The parties concerned), there is no wrong in him: For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[006:160] He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit: He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil: no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.

[042:041] But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.

[049:006] O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.

[002:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

I have to say, this seems mostly like a warfare manual. It also seems like a few important phrases are ambiguous. I think many Muslims interpret "no more tumult" to mean: "fight them until they've all converted or become dhimmis".

And "don't take a life - except for just cause". How do you interpret that? (Many Muslims (including major Islamic leaders), think things like apostasy or blasphemy are "just cause".)
 

Union

Well-Known Member
I have to say, this seems mostly like a warfare manual. It also seems like a few important phrases are ambiguous. I think many Muslims interpret "no more tumult" to mean: "fight them until they've all converted or become dhimmis".

And "don't take a life - except for just cause". How do you interpret that? (Many Muslims (including major Islamic leaders), think things like apostasy or blasphemy are "just cause".)

Hi Ice horse , I hope you are keeping well . Please refer to the following threads for a detailed discussion on the issues you raised above . Thanks .

What is the meaning of Jihad in Qur'an ?
Any type of self killing (e.g. suicide bombing) is prohibited in Qur'an
Qur'an never promote fighting/killing just for differing in faith
Principles of ultimate battle in the Qur'an
Punishment of Zina in qur'an : No stoning
Rules of apostatsy in Qur'an : don't kill them
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Thanks Union.

I see already that I wasn't clear enough in the OP. It seems the problem we're already having is that the Quran seems to be so easy to interpret differently by different people.

What I'm really curious about is what positive messages Muslims get from the Quran "In their own words".

Now I don't get my morals and values from any religion's scripture. Still, I can state many of the values that are important (central to me):

- I value equality for all people
- I value the separation of church and state and freedom FROM religion for all
- I value evidence, logic, and parsimony
- I value true tolerance for all peaceful, tolerant people
- I value freedom of speech (Including the freedom to offend)

So I'm asking Muslims to share the core, positive messages they've learned from the Quran - in their own words! The reason I think that this is a fair request is that Muslims tell us that the Quran IS the source of their morals and ethics.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
So I'm asking Muslims to share the core, positive messages they've learned from the Quran - in their own words!
But it's telling that you do so in "Quranic Debates".

The reason I think that this is a fair request is that Muslims tell us that the Quran IS the source of their morals and ethics.
It is also fair for Muslims and others to see the request as agenda-driven and disingenuous.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
But it's telling that you do so in "Quranic Debates".

It is also fair for Muslims and others to see the request as agenda-driven and disingenuous.

I think I've been forthcoming in all the posts I've made in this forum. I've been working hard to understand what values Muslims hold. Do I have an agenda? Yup, I want people to understand each other better.

So, for example, if most Muslims believe free speech should be suspended when it comes to insulting religions, then I think we'd all be better off knowing that.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
In other threads I proposed that the Quran does not promote peaceful values.

Predictably, non-Muslims debated with Muslims about how to interpret the book (and specific verses in the book). Predictably, we seldom reached any consensus.

In this thread I'm hoping we can look at the Quran from a different perspective. There are many Muslims in this forum who have strong, positive feelings about this book. I'm wondering if any of you would offer something like a "Top Ten" or "Top Five" list. Something like:

"The Top 5-10 Positive Messages Offered by the Quran"

(Ultimately, I'm interested in understanding Muslim values and how they differ or are the same as secular values.)

Thank you for starting such a thread.

There are no top 5 or top 10 for me, however I will be sharing a number of verses that I would say are what you are looking for.

2:256 There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.


2:263 Kind speech and forgiveness are better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is Free of need and Forbearing.

2:264 O you who have believed, do not invalidate your charities with reminders or injury as does one who spends his wealth [only] to be seen by the people and does not believe in Allah and the Last Day. His example is like that of a [large] smooth stone upon which is dust and is hit by a downpour that leaves it bare. They are unable [to keep] anything of what they have earned. And Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

60:8 Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

16:91 And fulfill the covenant of Allah when you have taken it, [O believers], and do not break oaths after their confirmation while you have made Allah , over you, a witness. Indeed, Allah knows what you do.

4:58 Indeed, Allah commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allah instructs you. Indeed, Allah is ever Hearing and Seeing.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hello One-answer.

As we've seen in our recent discussions, it's hard for everyone to agree about what specific verses of the Quran mean. For every verse you interpret, I can find many Muslims who interpret the same verse differently.

So, in this thread I'm hoping to hear from Muslims - in your own words - what peaceful, positive messages or morals or ethics you've learned from the Quran.
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Thanks Union.

I see already that I wasn't clear enough in the OP. It seems the problem we're already having is that the Quran seems to be so easy to interpret differently by different people.

What I'm really curious about is what positive messages Muslims get from the Quran "In their own words".

Now I don't get my morals and values from any religion's scripture. Still, I can state many of the values that are important (central to me):

- I value equality for all people
- I value the separation of church and state and freedom FROM religion for all
- I value evidence, logic, and parsimony
- I value true tolerance for all peaceful, tolerant people
- I value freedom of speech (Including the freedom to offend)

So I'm asking Muslims to share the core, positive messages they've learned from the Quran - in their own words! The reason I think that this is a fair request is that Muslims tell us that the Quran IS the source of their morals and ethics.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"

Hi Icehorse . I know this is your thread and you rule. Still I would like to ask you to show me verses from Qur'an where all the points regarding human values are violated . Let us discuss one by one . Start with the first one please .
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Hello One-answer.

As we've seen in our recent discussions, it's hard for everyone to agree about what specific verses of the Quran mean. For every verse you interpret, I can find many Muslims who interpret the same verse differently.

So, in this thread I'm hoping to hear from Muslims - in your own words - what peaceful, positive messages or morals or ethics you've learned from the Quran.

I think the verses I provided are clear in meaning.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hi Union,

No worries, as I stated earlier, I start these threads because I want to understand common Muslim values. This is just one attempt to pose the question correctly, I'm happy to take the detour you suggested, but with one change...

In other threads I've discussed specific verses with Muslims, and we end up stuck. We get stuck because everyone can interpret the same verse different ways. So instead of debating interpretations of verses, I'd like to respond by citing evidence in the world. So in general all of these examples can start with:

"In the world today we have evidence that *many* Muslims cite the Quran as a justification for: "

- wife beating
- unequal inheritances for men vs. women
- anti-semitism
- homophobia
- the desire to spread Sharia
- the desire to punish apostates
- intolerance for other religions in Muslim majority contries
- the desire to punish those who insult Islam or Muhammad

Now I understand that some Muslims would look at this list and say that those are NOT behaviors that are true to Islam. This is why I'm confused about Islam and the values of Muslims.

I understand that there are Islamic extremists. I'd like to understand what ordinary, "moderate" Muslims value when it comes to the (often contentious), issues I listed above.

So the idea of the OP was to find out the positive, peaceful values Muslims find in the Quran. I'll make the claim that the list I offered above are all examples of non-peaceful behavior.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
Hi Union,
So instead of debating interpretations of verses, I'd like to respond by citing evidence in the world. So in general all of these examples can start with:

"In the world today we have evidence that *many* Muslims cite the Quran as a justification for: "

- wife beating
- unequal inheritances for men vs. women
- anti-semitism
- homophobia
- the desire to spread Sharia
- the desire to punish apostates
- intolerance for other religions in Muslim majority contries
- the desire to punish those who insult Islam or Muhammad

Now I understand that some Muslims would look at this list and say that those are NOT behaviors that are true to Islam. This is why I'm confused about Islam and the values of Muslims.

I understand that there are Islamic extremists. I'd like to understand what ordinary, "moderate" Muslims value when it comes to the (often contentious), issues I listed above.

So the idea of the OP was to find out the positive, peaceful values Muslims find in the Quran. I'll make the claim that the list I offered above are all examples of non-peaceful behavior.

Union gave you a list of links talking about some of those subjects.
You should read them, i think he did a great job by collecting the verses and explaining them.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hi Pastek,

Good to talk to you again. I looked at a few of the links that Union provided. As I mentioned earlier, these links are primarily discussions of how *some* Muslims interpret *some* verses of the scripture. And we know that Muslims around the world interpret the scripture differently.

I'm interesting in hearing what peaceful messages Muslims have learned from the Quran.

As I said in the OP, ultimately I'd like to understand what most Muslims' peaceful values are - IN THEIR OWN WORDS. In other words, what do you guys think?

For example you might say:

"The Quran taught me to value intellectual study".
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to-Union ---
i promised you to give all verse from qoran ---
in this subject a dress ---
but in first you must know the important -notice ---
-Depends on the interpretation of the Koran and the copyist copied ---
Thread one but two opinions on this subject contradictory ----
Duplicator is the right of the copied ----For example - the Koran which says that the state of coercion in religion ----
This verse was revealed in Mecca ----
There are state cancel this verse in this opinion and abolish ---
This verse was revealed in Medina -
Verse says ---
Whoever does not follow Islam as a religion will not accept it any other religion which is one of the losers in the afterlife
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
This is one example ---
There are contradictory states ----
The verdicts -----
Especially in matters of peace and war ----
Verses which was revealed in Medina verses abrogate all that was revealed in Mecca
Arab Muslim knows the difference between verses that revealed in Mecca, the first stage of the advent of Islam ---- and that between verses revealed in Medina and is canceled and copied by all states of peace that descended in Mecca ---المسلم العربي يعرف الفرق بين الايات التي نزلت في مكة وهي المرحلة الاولى من ظهور الاسلام ---- وبين الايات التي نزلت في المدينة المنورة وهي التي الغت ونسخت كل ايات السلام التي نزلت في مكة ----







Muslim writes us here Meccan verses -
But away from the verses which landed in Medina
 
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